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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
I’d probably not support Him. You see, I’m a coward.
I’d be scared those Roman soldiers would come after me too. 
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I’d be scared those Roman soldiers would come after me too.
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planten
Guest
**Thanks for the comliment shaikh, as a Muslim, I cannot believe that jesus was a son of God or God himself. Unless I say that Jesus was spiritually related to God as a son, then it is o.k. I hope. But even then the christians will not be happy with me because they believe that Jesus was a begotten son and the only begotten son of God. That makes matters more complicated.
To me God does not need a son. God does not need anything. It is sure that Jesus was a prophet of God. He was a great prophet, the last one in the line of the israeli prophets. Many prophets had come in the Israelis. Jesus was the last one. Since they did not accept him, that line of spiritualism hailing from Abaraham was cut off from the children of Jacob for ever (no more prophets).
He was the Massiah for the Jews. But Jews could not recognise him, could not reconcile with him. They did not accept him as a prophet. They ridiculed him and tried to kill him on cross just to prove that he was nobody. He was a cursed person so he could not be any prophet of God.
The christians accepted that Jesus was a cursed person and that is a height of folly (pardon me). These are two opposite things. The Jews do not recognise Jesus as a reasonable man. But the christians want all muslims (and mankind) to accept Jesus as a god. That is difficult.
Jesus had not come for the christians.He had come for the Jews only and they rejected him completely. That was their mistake or I may say, that was their great sin. I am only speaking from the muslim point of view. Every one has his own theology.**
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MHalsey
Guest
Way to miss my point completely and use my post as another chance to rant against Catholics.
If you want to discuss the topic in a civil manner, great. If you want to use this as your soapbox to attack catholics, as well as other Christians, go someplace else. It’s not appreciated here.
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impalass
Guest
Can you please give a source of fact for your information stated above…not a belief like childrens stories from the bible but first hand facts. Information that can be verified to be true. The bible has a tremendous number of contraditions, not counting that slavery was ok and its a sin to kill a chicken or a duck and that Adam lived to be 935 years old. UNEBELIEVABLE!
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impalass
Guest
Lets not forget this forum just isn’t about catholics. Its called IS JESUS REALLY THE SON OF GOD?..I have given my opinions that are as valid as anyone elses. You have a belief. I have a belief. You have no facts. Neigther do I. Don’t tell me the bible is factual. Its a book of poems and parables by old men that we personally know nothing about. You are like a lot of catholics who take things waaaaaaay too seriously. Laugh at yourselves once in awhile please! I have no trouble questioning holy communion at mass. The church says that bread and wine are LITTERALLY turned into the body and blood of Jesus…Its still bread and wine. Hello! . Its no different then when children dress up and pretend that they are adults. They don’t turn into adults they just pretend. They believe that in their minds until they decide to come back to reality. Keep believing what you want…I don’t care but please don’t push your beliefs on others who see the world and Jesus in a different way.
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MHalsey
Guest
I am not *pushing *my beliefs on you. I was just adding to the discussion. However, you mock me and what I believe. And you mock what is central to Catholic belief. That’s not funny, it’s insulting. And don’t expect me, or any other Catholic, to laugh.
As for the topic. All you can say is that the stories of the Bible are UNBELIEVABLE, yet you have no explanation for *why you think that. Instead you just spout statistics regarding fallen away Catholics who also don’t believe. But we know what they say about statistics: there are lies, dam lies, and statistics.
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Angelos
Guest
To me God does not need a son. God does not need anything. It is sure that Jesus was a prophet of God. He was a great prophet, the last one in the line of the israeli prophets. Many prophets had come in the Israelis. Jesus was the last one. Since they did not accept him, that line of spiritualism hailing from Abaraham was cut off from the children of Jacob for ever (no more prophets).]
We do not say or believe that God needs a son, but YOU say that God needs prophets, God needs Jewish people’s disbelief in Jesus so as to stop sending them any more prophets, God needs Jewish and Christian authorities through whom the Bible is distorted and the reason for another new revelation is provided. I also wonder why God needed to wait until Jesus to cut off that line of hailing from Jews?
planten;3423540:
Evidence that Christians believe Jesus is a cursed person please!!!
We Christians do not want Muslims to accept Jesus as **a **God, but the God! Jesus is the only begotten Son of God in the sense that He is the eternal and uncreated Wisdom and Word of God, through which God the Father reveals/expresses Himself to the whole creation.
We Christians by no means adapt our beliefs and theology to the belief or disbelief of other communities! It is true that what Christianity teaches is totally different from what Jews believe about Jesus, but what Islam teaches about Jesus is also opposite what both Jews and Christianity think of Jesus. More, what Jews say about Jesus is not one of the tenets/dogmas of Judaism. Thus, your comments fail since they compare Christian theology to the secular views of some Jews.
Thanks and Salaam,
Angelos N.B.
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planten
Guest
**
About Jesus being a cursed person, there is no evidence except what I see and read on the net from the catholics and Protestants (May be more from the protestants). Otherwise I do not find it in the bible a direct sentence that jesus was a cursed person and I do not believe that he was a cursed person.
But during my discussions with the christians on the net, that is what i got from them.
But it is natural for them. They have no escape that is why they admit that Jesus was cursed. The Reason is as follows:
It is written in the bible Ot that any one who is hung on the tree (or dies on a cross) is a cursed person. I hope you know about it. So, since Jesus was put on the cross and he died there, therefore he should be cursed according to bible OT. Yes or No?? Your belief that Jesus died on the cross makes Jesus cursed. Will you disagree to that?**
About Jesus being a cursed person, there is no evidence except what I see and read on the net from the catholics and Protestants (May be more from the protestants). Otherwise I do not find it in the bible a direct sentence that jesus was a cursed person and I do not believe that he was a cursed person.
But during my discussions with the christians on the net, that is what i got from them.
But it is natural for them. They have no escape that is why they admit that Jesus was cursed. The Reason is as follows:
It is written in the bible Ot that any one who is hung on the tree (or dies on a cross) is a cursed person. I hope you know about it. So, since Jesus was put on the cross and he died there, therefore he should be cursed according to bible OT. Yes or No?? Your belief that Jesus died on the cross makes Jesus cursed. Will you disagree to that?**
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Angelos
Guest
I shall certainly disagree to that because what YOU get from the application of that OT sentence to Jesus is not the same as what WE mean by it.
Galatians 3:10-14 For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.” Now it is clear no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous one will live by faith. But the law is not based on faith, but the one who does the works of the law will live by them. **Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us **(because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”) in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith.
Saying that Jesus is cursed in this context is not an insult or blasphemy since it is similar to saying that Jesus carried our sins on the cross although He Himself was sinless. In order to save us from death Jesus DIED! Likewise, He was considered CURSED in order to redeem us from the curse of the Law.
Peace,
Angelos N.B.
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
Hi planten,
I understand your concern completely.
Back in May 2007, I asked a very similar question in these forums; I asked, “Why does the Father need a helper in the Holy Spirit?” (See post # 8 in the following link.)
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2286997#post2286997
I was told to read Theology for Beginners by Frank Sheed. I then was able to submit the following two posts.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2652117#post2652117
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3256119#post3256119
I hope they help.
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tomshaikh
Guest
Hello Charlie,
Example of ROCKET
Quran:Chapte/Surah:55, Verses/Ayat:32
Ar-Rahman
(32) O assembly of jinn and men! If you have power to pass beyond the zones of the heavens and the earth, then pass beyond (them)! But you will never be able to pass them, except with authority (from Allâh)!
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tomshaikh
Guest
No, we are not brothers. Nor will we ever be brothers until you worship the Christ.
Hello Masscup,
For you kind attention by Adam and Eve first people on earth we all humanbeings are believe to be brothers and sisters to each other. I donot know as catholic if you believes on Adam or Eve.
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tomshaikh
Guest
Hello FaithofAbraham,
My advice to you is please confirm your religion preference. You are talking about every religion bad and good things. Please confirm first what your faith is. And if you believe on FaithofAbrahim you will never talk bad about Islam. My point is on Monotheism which are Prophet Abraham and Prophet Muhammad PBUT faiths.
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ryanoneil
Guest
Please forgive me if I’m wrong, but we christians believe that God’s Word and His Breath are part of God himself. (the Trinity) People who don’t believe probably think God’s word and his breath are not part of Him. They probably believe they are seperate things.
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. (Gen 1:1-3)
We believe that God’s Word is Jesus, and that he is part of God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. (John 1:1-3)
Did you ever notice what God said?
**Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. (Gen 1:26a)
We believe He says this because He is talking to Himself (the Trinity).
the LORD God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being. (Gen 2:7)
We believe the Breath of God is the Holy Spirit, who is part of God.
So you see, we believe that God, God’s Word, and God’s Breath are all part of ONE GOD. We do not think that His Word and His Breath are different or seperate. We believe they are ONE.
Do non-believers think that they are seperate from each other?
Peace,
Ryan
In the beginning, when God created the heavens and the earth, the earth was a formless wasteland, and darkness covered the abyss, while a mighty wind swept over the waters. Then God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light. (Gen 1:1-3)
We believe that God’s Word is Jesus, and that he is part of God.
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. (John 1:1-3)
Did you ever notice what God said?
**Then God said: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. (Gen 1:26a)
We believe He says this because He is talking to Himself (the Trinity).
the LORD God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being. (Gen 2:7)
We believe the Breath of God is the Holy Spirit, who is part of God.
So you see, we believe that God, God’s Word, and God’s Breath are all part of ONE GOD. We do not think that His Word and His Breath are different or seperate. We believe they are ONE.
Do non-believers think that they are seperate from each other?
Peace,
Ryan
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planten
Guest
Sir, my post is quite long and varied. Please present my post and color the part where you need support from the scriptures. Otherwise I am unable to understand the problem. Please forgive any of my mistakes. Thanks.
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planten
Guest
**It is clear that you have agreed to Jesus being cursed, under whatever the context, it is wrong. Highly objectionable to think that Jesus or anyman of God was a cursed person. For what ever reason, you may have and I know that reason is also fallacious, that is to do with the original sin and all being sinful and Jesus giving his life on the cross to take away the sins. that is all a matter of later debate.
Please understand that it is not Jesus talking. It is some one else who is telling you to leave the law, that law is a curse. That is another big problem. Why is law a curse. Was Jesus not following that same law and supporting it and all his disciples also did the same?? To say that law is a curse (in whatever round about way) is another big problem of the church.
And to say that jesus was cursed is to provide a proof that he was not even a good man. Why the church had to admit that?? It is upto the christians to solve these problems that give bad name to Jesus. Cursed one is far away from the love and Mercy of God.**
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fbl9
Guest
in its self the law can not save a person,it only can condemn one.with out the law there would be no sin.if there is no law one can not transgress the law.Jesus Himself is not personaly cursed He did in fact took on the sins of mankind so as to free mankind from the law.then again comes the question exactly which law are we talking about?
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Angelos
Guest
No bad name given to Jesus by the Church, my dear friend, so stop worrying. Jesus was not and is not a cursed person at all, He only became a curse for us in order to be **a redemption **for us too! He is not a cursed man after the crucifixion and resurrection. I suggest reading Paul’s Letter to Galatians in the light of Christian theology. Picking up a verse from the Epistle only to misinterpret it will not make Jesus a cursed person in our sightIt is clear that you have agreed to Jesus being cursed, under whatever the context, it is wrong. Highly objectionable to think that Jesus or anyman of God was a cursed person. For what ever reason, you may have and I know that reason is also fallacious, that is to do with the original sin and all being sinful and Jesus giving his life on the cross to take away the sins. that is all a matter of later debate.
It is clear that I agree to Jesus being cursed only because I agree to Jesus being crucified! Nevertheless, saying that “Jesus was cursed for us” is not the same as saying “Mary is a virgin” or “Jesus is the Lord of Lords”. More to the point, I see that you also agree to Jesus being cursed since you definitely agree to his being crucified.
You could have criticized the concept of original sin without beating around the bush though.
planten;3427212:
Jesus speaking to us through His chosen ones though if not directly. You should know what the word “apostle” means and how Jesus uses several means to reveal Himself to the world. Please read Matthew 20: 1-16 in order to hear what Jesus thinks about the Mosaic Law - if you really believe that the parable in question was related by Jesus Himself.
Peace,
Angelos N.B.
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impalass
Guest
Jesus was never a christian or a catholic. NEVER. I don’t believe he is the son of God.
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Christians changed Gods divine plan. God tells us in the bible that saturday is the sabbath, the day that Jesus would have gone to pray. Well christians decided lets change Gods plan and make it Sunday. jewish people pray with their hands behind their backs as Jesus did. Christians pray with their hands in front. Christianity has done everything to sanitize themselves from Jews. Jesus was a Jew his whole life and practiced that till his death. Too much faith by christians on one line Upon this rock......did it really happen? Don't know, and neigther does anyone else.
Christianity has become by the most part a family tradition that has been handed down for centuries. Your parents, grand parents, etc etc might have been catholic and indoctrinated their families into this tradition. The same parallel with your neighbors who might have been raised Jewish or Protestant Muslim etc. A family tradition........except for those that converted, who used their own free will to make their educated decision. I do applaud those people for their beliefs, but not someone who was taught from baptism nothing else but the family tradition, your religion is not really a belief but a family tradition.
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inJESUS
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