Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

[Prodigal_Son1]

The word Catholic was not used nor was it a religion during the time before, during and some time after Jesus. It was called the CHURCH which is a body of believers in Chirst, no more, no less.

Why? Simple because like Jesus told us the Son has come to glorify the Father, just like the Father will glorify the Son.
( 1 Tim 6:16) But God wants us to know him, that is why he sent his Son. He chose to become Human so we could relate to him through the Son.
There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit 3 person in One divinity God.
Christians of almost all demoninations believe this. This don’t mean Jesus started the Catholic Church.

You claim the Church is a body of believers but have gone to great lengths to exclude the Catholic Church as a part of the body of believers. That’s why some take your argument as ‘anti-Catholic’.

Christ built a ‘Christian’ Church. Authoritative men of that Church named it the Catholic Church. All Christian Churches have roots back to the Catholic Church. The term was derived from the Greek I provided examples of, in SCRIPTURES.

 

[Cinette]

If the Catholic faith had its foundation in the Jewish faith and we, non-Catholics had our foundation in the Catholic faith and we are called denominations because of that foundation then the Catholic faith having its foundations in the Jewish faith would mean the same thing, Its a denomination.

*As I see it the Catholic Church is the fulfillment of the Jewish Faith just like the NT follows on from the OT with a new Covenant. All other Christian religions are break-aways/sub-sets/divisions of the Christian Church into separate groups.

I have to add that there are Divisions and sub-divisions, watered down as each splinters from the former.

*

 

[Cinette]

Reverend, let us look at what St. Paul has taught to the Ephesians:

1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
2 with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, 3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” 9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love. (Ephesians (RSV) 4)

Unity is what we all should strive for, this unity is not possible without knowing the Truth that Christ and his apostles have given us. This Truth is the Church:

15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God,** the pillar and bulwark of the truth.** (1Timothy (RSV) 3)

This Church has been built on St. Peter through Christ:

18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." (Matthew (RSV) 16)

There is only one church - not Churches - that Christ established. Scripturally and historically this can ONLY be the Catholic Church. All souls all called into unity with Rome.

Make your way home Reverend, time is short.

*Thank you Irish Polock, thank you very much.

*

 

[rev_kevin]

You claim the Church is a body of believers but have gone to great lengths to exclude the Catholic Church as a part of the body of believers. That’s why some take your argument as ‘anti-Catholic’.

Christ built a ‘Christian’ Church. Authoritative men of that Church named it the Catholic Church. All Christian Churches have roots back to the Catholic Church. The term was derived from the Greek I provided examples of, in SCRIPTURES.

Originally Posted by rev kevin
Jesus started the church and the church is a group of believers that are Christians,even Catholics are Christian. Therefore Christ started Christianity. If not then who did?

So I am right Christ built a Christian Church and not the Catholic Church. Now the Christian Church was given the name Catholic to say that Christianity is universal. Well this answers the question of “Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?” NO Christ build/started a Christian Church. :extrahappy::dancing:

 

[lax16]

Originally Posted by rev kevin
Jesus started the church and the church is a group of believers that are Christians,even Catholics are Christian. Therefore Christ started Christianity. If not then who did?

So I am right Christ built a Christian Church and not the Catholic Church. Now the Christian Church was given the name Catholic to say that Christianity is universal. Well this answers the question of “Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?” NO Christ build/started a Christian Church. :extrahappy::dancing:

No, Jesus started the Catholic Church that is made up of Christians.

 

[rev_kevin]

*Thank you Irish Polock, thank you very much.

*

1 I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, beg you to lead a life worthy of the calling to which you have been called,
2 with all lowliness and meekness, with patience, forbearing one another in love, 3 eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call, 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 one God and Father of us all, who is above all and through all and in all. 7 But grace was given to each of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8 Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” 9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He who descended is he who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And his gifts were that some should be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, some pastors and teachers, 12 to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13 until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ; 14 so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness in deceitful wiles. 15 Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16 from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by every joint with which it is supplied, when each part is working properly, makes bodily growth and upbuilds itself in love. (Ephesians (RSV) 4)

Unity is what we all should strive for, this unity is not possible without knowing the Truth that Christ and his apostles have given us. This Truth is the Church:

15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. (1Timothy (RSV) 3)

These seem to fit a lot of Christian denominations.

 

[rev_kevin]

No, Jesus started the Catholic Church that is made up of Christians.

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son1
Christ built a ‘Christian’ Church. Authoritative men of that Church named it the Catholic Church.

Here it says that Christ built a Christian Church first. Then authoritative men NAMED it the Catholic Church. It was made up of ALL Christians not Catholic because there were no Catholics then but Christians and Christians are still around, Catholic, Methodist, Baptist and so on are all Christians. We are all from the Christian Church, that have different names. Catholic, meaning universal, was the first name because Christianity is universal throughout the world and now by many different Christian denominations.

 

[Pitcharan]

… But if one disagrees with the CC somehow thats makes them automatically anti-Catholic. Jesus started the church and the church is a group of believers that are Christians, even Catholics are Christians. Therefore Christ started Christianity. If not then who did?

Dear Rev Kevin, I don’t believe you are anti-Catholic and am convinced that you belong to Christ as much as me and other Christians do. I invite you to carefully read all what is written about the church started by our Lord and see for yourself that it is in fact the CC.

I have tried to chronologically arrange the key Bible verses that bring out this truth;

This is the gate of the LORD through which the righteous may enter.
I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become my salvation.
The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;
the LORD has done this, and it is marvellous in our eyes.
This is the day the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. (Psalm 118:22-24)

The Righteous Branch
Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture! declares the LORD. Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done, declares the LORD. I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing, declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 23:1-4)

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them
accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the
shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths,
and it will no longer be food for them. 'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his
scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue
them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness.
I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will
bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel,
in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. I will tend them in a good pasture,
and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in
good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
I myself will tend my sheep and make them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. I will
place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. (Ezekiel 34:10-15, 23 & 37:24)

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father— and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. (John 10:9-16)

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. (Matthew 16:18)

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)

While the above verses clearly establish that the founding of our church by our Lord is foretold in the OT and fulfilled in the NT.

Now in order to discern that the church founded by Jesus is the CC, you need to wear the hat of an unbiased seeker of truth and you will clearly infer the following truths: (i) Jesus appointed Peter to head the church He founded; (ii) The CC is headed by the Pope in Rome is the only institution that can trace its origin and legacy to the church headed by Peter.

If you are still not convinced, read all the theological works of all churches, listen to all their homilies / sermons / preachings; look at the lives of saints AND IT WILL BE CRYSTAL CLEAR TO YOU, WHO PERFECTLY FIT THE OT DESCRIPTION OF SHEPHERDS AFTER GOD’S OWN HEART.

 

[Irish_Polock]

rev_kevin:
These seem to fit a lot of Christian denominations.

What other ecclesiastical community - outside of Rome - has the Pedigree that the Catholic Church has Reverend?

 

[rev_kevin]

Dear Rev Kevin, I don’t believe you are anti-Catholic and am convinced that you belong to Christ as much as me and other Christians do. I invite you to carefully read all what is written about the church started by our Lord and see for yourself that it is in fact the CC.

I have tried to chronologically arrange the key Bible verses that bring out this truth;

This is the gate of the LORD through which the righteous may enter.
I will give you thanks, for you answered me; you have become my salvation.
The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone;
the LORD has done this, and it is marvellous in our eyes.
This is the day the LORD has made; let us rejoice and be glad in it. (Psalm 118:22-24)

The Righteous Branch
Woe to the shepherds who are destroying and scattering the sheep of my pasture! declares the LORD. Therefore this is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says to the shepherds who tend my people: Because you have scattered my flock and driven them away and have not bestowed care on them, I will bestow punishment on you for the evil you have done, declares the LORD. I myself will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries where I have driven them and will bring them back to their pasture, where they will be fruitful and increase in number. I will place shepherds over them who will tend them, and they will no longer be afraid or terrified, nor will any be missing, declares the LORD. (Jeremiah 23:1-4)

This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I am against the shepherds and will hold them
accountable for my flock. I will remove them from tending the flock so that the
shepherds can no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my flock from their mouths,
and it will no longer be food for them. 'For this is what the Sovereign LORD says:
I myself will search for my sheep and look after them. As a shepherd looks after his
scattered flock when he is with them, so will I look after my sheep. I will rescue
them from all the places where they were scattered on a day of clouds and darkness.
I will bring them out from the nations and gather them from the countries, and I will
bring them into their own land. I will pasture them on the mountains of Israel,
in the ravines and in all the settlements in the land. I will tend them in a good pasture,
and the mountain heights of Israel will be their grazing land. There they will lie down in
good grazing land, and there they will feed in a rich pasture on the mountains of Israel.
I myself will tend my sheep and make them lie down, declares the Sovereign LORD. I will
place over them one shepherd, my servant David, and he will tend them; he will tend them and be their shepherd. (Ezekiel 34:10-15, 23 & 37:24)

I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be saved. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full. I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— just as the Father knows me and I know the Father— and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. (John 10:9-16)

And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. (Matthew 16:18)

Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)

While the above verses clearly establish that the founding of our church by our Lord is foretold in the OT and fulfilled in the NT.

Now in order to discern that the church founded by Jesus is the CC, you need to wear the hat of an unbiased seeker of truth and you will clearly infer the following truths: (i) Jesus appointed Peter to head the church He founded; (ii) The CC is headed by the Pope in Rome is the only institution that can trace its origin and legacy to the church headed by Peter.

If you are still not convinced, read all the theological works of all churches, listen to all their homilies / sermons / preachings; look at the lives of saints AND IT WILL BE CRYSTAL CLEAR TO YOU, WHO PERFECTLY FIT THE OT DESCRIPTION OF SHEPHERDS AFTER GOD’S OWN HEART.

I don’t see where all this points to Jesus starting the Catholic Church. It was Christianity a Christian Church that he started. Now a Christian is what?

 

[Cinette]

Originally Posted by rev kevin
Jesus started the church and the church is a group of believers that are Christians,even Catholics are Christian. Therefore Christ started Christianity. If not then who did?

So I am right Christ built a Christian Church and not the Catholic Church. Now the Christian Church was given the name Catholic to say that Christianity is universal. Well this answers the question of “Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?” NO Christ build/started a Christian Church. :extrahappy::dancing:

*Christ founded the Christian Church which later was referred to as the Catholic Church in the 1st century because it was universal.

I don’t think this debate is a contest. It is lamentable that you like to gloat and stick out your tongue at every opportunity rev. It doesn’t become anyone.

 

[Irish_Polock]

I don’t see where all this points to Jesus starting the Catholic Church. It was Christianity a Christian Church that he started. Now a Christian is what?

Reverend, does the fact that Baptist view Baptism differently then most other Christians bother you at all, or the fact that we all have different doctrines and dogmas? How can this be so if St. Paul said that there is one “Lord, one faith, one baptism” in reference to the Church? How can there be so many differences in the essential beliefs of the body of Christ? I don’t think St. Paul was asking us to knit together some sort of “Frankenstein”. How would you answer these charges of ecclesiastical chaos, and the unity of the body as a whole?

“There can be only one” Reverend, let it be Rome.

 

[JVSantos]

Rev,
It’s not news that the Catholic Church is founded by Jesus himself, it’s a FACT for more than two thousand years. It’s not a new revelation. Nice try

 

[rev_kevin]

*Christ founded the Christian Church which later was referred to as the Catholic Church in the 1st century because it was universal.

I don’t think this debate is a contest. It is lamentable that you like to gloat and stick out your tongue at every opportunity rev. It doesn’t become anyone.

Every opportunity??? Show me every opportunity please. Where am I sticking out my toung?
This is because I see we came to a conclusion of Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church? Its not gloating or sticking out my toung.

 

[rev_kevin]

Rev,
It’s not news that the Catholic Church is founded by Jesus himself, it’s a FACT for more than two thousand years. It’s not a new revelation. Nice try

Did I say it was news, if I did thats news to me. Can you please point to the post where I said that it was news.

Or are you talking about below where it says, Christ built a ‘Christian’ Church. and so on?
Originally Posted by Prodigal Son1
You claim the Church is a body of believers but have gone to great lengths to exclude the Catholic Church as a part of the body of believers. That’s why some take your argument as ‘anti-Catholic’.

Christ built a ‘Christian’ Church. Authoritative men of that Church named it the Catholic Church. All Christian Churches have roots back to the Catholic Church. The term was derived from the Greek I provided examples of, in SCRIPTURES.

Originally Posted by rev kevin
Jesus started the church and the church is a group of believers that are Christians,even Catholics are Christian. Therefore Christ started Christianity. If not then who did?

So I am right Christ built a Christian Church and not the Catholic Church. Now the Christian Church was given the name Catholic to say that Christianity is universal. Well this answers the question of “Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?” NO Christ build/started a Christian Church.

 

[po18guy]

Yes I can. I am a Christian, a part of the church, a group of believers that is the church.

I never said I went by sola scripture. I am not anti-Catholic and I have stated it many times here in the CAF. I find being called anti-Catholic offensive. But if one disagrees with the CC somehow thats makes them automatically anti-Catholic.

Jesus started the church and the church is a group of believers that are Christians, even Catholics are Christians. Therefore Christ started Christianity. If not then who did?

My regrets for all that offended. On the last point in particular: Christ is Christianity. What He founded was a Church, an assembly, using Apostles to which He gave amazing authority. He founded a Church to spread the Gospel, but desired earnestly that we be of one accord - just as His servant Paul preached so long and so well.

It took me 35 years and much concession of personal opinion before I joined the Catholic Church, and even more time before I became an obedient Catholic. But, I cannot stop considering Christ’s words in Luke 9:23 “If any man would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross…” He calls us to do the two most difficult things before we follow.

It is resistance to denial of the self that has lead to all division in Christ’s Body, and the world is much the worse off for it.

 

[po18guy]

A few posts back Rinnie said that the Church is the PERSON of Christ, that the Catholic Church is the Second Person of the Trinity and that she has always existed from all eternity which as I have pointed out to her makes the Church God. I have heard something alone those lines before from some one who leaned a lot into New Age belief.

Body, yes. Person, no. Founded AD 30, as far as I can tell.

 

[Pitcharan]

I don’t see where all this points to Jesus starting the Catholic Church. It was Christianity a Christian Church that he started. Now a Christian is what?

True; but unfortunately many broke away and the CC represents the original church founded by Christ and you are free to either discern this truth and believe OR simply refuse to even acknowledge that the “shepherds after God’s own heart” prophesied in the OT are in fact the catholic theologians, priests and saints.
The choice is yours.

 

[benedictus2]

Wait right there! Do you have any idea what you just said? Even a dolt like me knows that the Orthodox left over matters of territory and local authority, among other things. They left 600 years after Nicaea, while rejecting a portion of the Nicene creed regarding the Holy Spirit.

It’s not that simple. It never is.

I have brought that to Mike attention on another thread. But it seems he never read the article I linked to about it even though he said he would.

Is this a case of not really wanting to know the truth?

 

[benedictus2]

Indeed, although, I would say that the Orthodox have severed their own cord; also they have not fared much better then the Protestants in their separation from The Holy See.

That is a very good point.

The Orthodox Churches remain essentially local national Churches and the protestant Churches are the same although even more local i.e. particular to a more narrowly specific congregation (except perhaps the Anglicans).

And yet, Christ’s Church is supposed to Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. So really, on the Catholic Church fit those conditions.