Did Jesus Start the Catholic Church?

[rev_kevin]

Hey Kevin…

Okay…

Okay…Still hoping you will provide me with the name of the man, or men, that founded the CC in union with Rome and when just as I can regarding each and every non-Catholic church???

The Acts of the Apostles claims that the Jewish Christian couple Prescilla and Aquila had recently come from Rome to Corinth when, in about the year 50, Paul reached Corinth, indicating that Christianity in Rome had preceded Paul. While the church in Rome was already flourishing when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans to them from Corinth, about AD 57, he greets some fifty people in Rome by name, but not Peter whom he knew. There is also no mention of Peter in Rome later during Paul’s two year stay there in chapter 28 of Acts, about AD 60-62.

 

[joe370]

The Acts of the Apostles claims that the Jewish Christian couple Prescilla and Aquila had recently come from Rome to Corinth when, in about the year 50, Paul reached Corinth, indicating that Christianity in Rome had preceded Paul. While the church in Rome was already flourishing when Paul wrote his Epistle to the Romans to them from Corinth, about AD 57, he greets some fifty people in Rome by name, but not Peter whom he knew. There is also no mention of Peter in Rome later during Paul’s two year stay there in chapter 28 of Acts, about AD 60-62.

Okay…Still hoping you will provide me with the name of the man, or men, that founded the CC in union with Rome and when, just as I can regarding each and every non-Catholic church???

 

[rev_kevin]

I well gladly defend the Eucharist:

53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you;
54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him.
57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. (John (RSV) 6)

64 But there are some of you that do not believe." For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that would betray him. 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” 66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him.
67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you also wish to go away?”
68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” 70 Jesus answered them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is a devil?” 71 He spoke of Judas the son of Simon Iscariot, for he, one of the twelve, was to betray him. (John (RSV) 6)

Reverend, what would be your communities interpretation of this? And does your communities interpretation resemble that of the post-pentecostal Church?

I speak for myself not others.
Part 1
To eat: To eat the living bread means to accept Christ into our lives and become united with him. 1. By believing in his death [the sacrifice of his flesh] and resurrection and 2. By devoting ourselves to living as he requires, depending on his teaching for guidance and trusting in the Holy Spirit for power.

Part 2.
The HS gives spiritual life, without the work of the HS, we cannot even see our need for new life. All spiritual renewal begins and ends with God. He reveals truth to us, lives within us, and then enables us to respond to that truth.
Now why would Jesus’ words cause many of his followers to desert him?

1. The may have realized that he wasn’t going to be the conquering Messiah-King they expected. 2.He refused to give in to their self-centered requwsts. 3. He emphasized faith, not deeds. 4. His teachings were difficult to understand, and some of his words were offensive.
   When he asked his disciples if they would also leave, he was showing that they could either accept or reject him. Jesus was not trying to repel people with his teachings. He was simply telling the truth. Peter replied, “To whom would we go?” In his straightforward way Peter answered for all of us. there is no other way. Now in response to Jesus’ message, some people left, others stayed and truly believed; and some, like Judas, stayed but tried ot use Jesus for personal gain. But there are only 2 real responses to Jesus, you either accept him or reject him.

 

[rev_kevin]

okay…still hoping you will provide me with the name of the man, or men, that founded the cc in union with rome and when, just as i can regarding each and every non-catholic church???

in red

 

[rev_kevin]

CC: Reason, logic, history, continuity, scripture, tradition.

RK: Is not. Is not. Is not…

Ya know I don’t say pr18guy is not is not is not because I try not to be that way. You have your views that I respect and try not to be disrespectful to a persons post or views. But I can see that its not the same here.

 

[joe370]

in red

What you wrote in red did not answer my question. Still waiting… If you don’t want to give me the name of the man, or men, just say so and I won’t bother you about it anymore?

 

[At_Trent]

No, Christ did not start a Church called the “Catholic Church”.
The Denomination, Church of Christ, is not a member of the Church Christ started. The Catholic Church is that Church.

You say he didn’t then you say he did. Which is it?

Christ started a Church. That Church came to be known as the Catholic Church, or The Church of Christ. Those who are not in Communion with the Catholic Church are not members of the Church Christ started.

That simple. So, why don’t you join us ?

 

[rev_kevin]

*I just have to ask you this before I go.

Are the words which I highlighted above yours rev kevin??*

Originally Posted by At Trent
No, Christ did not start a Church called the “Catholic Church”. No matter how it became known as Catholic, the Catholic Church of the time of St Polycarp is the same Catholic Church of today.

If you were to say Church of Christ, you would be speaking of the Catholic Church. The Denomination, Church of Christ, is not a member of the Church Christ started. The Catholic Church is that Church.

Thats why I posted: You say he didn’t then you say he did. Which is it?

 

[po18guy]

Kevin, if you honestly do not believe that the Catholic Church began with Jesus, then you must, out of moral obligation to the truth, reject the 66 books of your bible and begin to compile your own assemblage of what you consider to be scripture.

No one - not even Jack Chick in all of his foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of the Catholic Church, has ever ventured to do this. Why not? Please explain.

Please explain your reasons for rejecting authority of the Catholic Church (whose council and whose Pope declared as revealed truth each word in the bible you now hold), while clinging to the bible which that same authority approved. I mean, if it’s a bogus Church, then it’s a bogus bible.

 

[po18guy]

Ya know I don’t say pr18guy is not is not is not because I try not to be that way. You have your views that I respect and try not to be disrespectful to a persons post or views. But I can see that its not the same here.

I simply synopsized both arguments in this thread. Give some answers and shut us all up, then!

 

[rev_kevin]

Christ started a Church. That Church came to be known as the Catholic Church, or The Church of Christ. Those who are not in Communion with the Catholic Church are not members of the Church Christ started.

That simple. So, why don’t you join us ?

Sorry but I don’t see anywhere where Jesus said that the Church is the Catholic Church. I don’t see where Jesus said you must be Catholic to be in communion with him. The church is his body Ephesians 1:23. Christ is the head of the Church, which is his body. Colossians 1:18. Christ is the Church. I believe in Christ therefore I am a part of his Church.

 

[rev_kevin]

I simply synopsized both arguments in this thread. Give some answers and shut us all up, then!

Ok Ok yes Jesus started the Catholic Church. I say that because that is what you want to here. Anything less then that you would not accept. I have given you answers but you won’t accept them because its not what you want to hear so I gave you what you want to hear. But I don’t believe it.

 

[joe370]

Sorry but I don’t see anywhere where Jesus said that the Church is the Catholic Church. I don’t see where Jesus said you must be Catholic to be in communion with him. The church is his body Ephesians 1:23. Christ is the head of the Church, which is his body. Colossians 1:18. Christ is the Church. I believe in Christ therefore I am a part of his Church.

Kevin, you said:

Ok Ok yes Jesus started the Catholic Church. I say that because that is what you want to here.

That is NOT what I want to hear. I want to hear what you believe, not what we believe. Just in case you over looked my post: What you wrote in red did not answer my question. Still waiting… If you don’t want to give me the name of the man, or men, just say so and I won’t bother you about it anymore? Well, I have to get some sleep. Maybe I will have my answer tomorrow. Have a good night brother.

 

[At_Trent]

Sorry but I don’t see anywhere where Jesus said that the Church is the Catholic Church. I don’t see where Jesus said you must be Catholic to be in communion with him. The church is his body Ephesians 1:23. Christ is the head of the Church, which is his body. Colossians 1:18. Christ is the Church. I believe in Christ therefore I am a part of his Church.

Well, your report card says you need to work on your reading comprehension.

Christ said church, not churches, so if the Catholic Church isn’t that church, then the church must be confined to some small group somewhere in the Middle East sands and keeping membership restricted to themselves.By your reasoning, that’s the only possible conclusion.

 

[benedictus2]

What? You can’t be serious.They were Christians/believers not Catholic.

If you pay attention to what I wrote we can move forward.

I said before they were CALLED Christians they were Catholics.

They were called Christians at Antioch. But converts at Antioch were not the first Gentile converts.

As I have explained before, once the Apostles started preaching to Gentiles, that very moment the faith became Catholic i.e. Universal because at that moment they started to follow Christ commission to make disciples of all nations. That means Jesus from the beginning had the intention that making His Church Catholic.

That don’t mean a Christian has always been Catholic. There are Christians today that are not Catholic.

Well no. Not in Acts and not for the first 1000 years of Christianity. Everyone who was Christian was Catholic. Unfortunately that is a fact that you cannot rationalize.

And this is why we are having this discussion now. How come 1500 years after Christ established His Church, we find Christians who are not Catholic. Can we therefore say that these Churches were founded by Christ? Obviously not.

Ya they were called believers and then called Christians. But they were believers first.

And every single believer belonged to the Catholic Church. There were no other churches then. This is something you keep forgetting.

Now, now. Lets be nice here.

I am not trying to be mean by saying that a statement is absurd. It is just a mere recognition of the absurdity of the statement. Mind you, I do not say something is absurd without providing support for this.

I was not a man until I became a man. Not all Christians become Catholic.

What I mean by man is human being. If no one said you are a human being, does that mean you are not a human being until someone said so? Do you see how ridiculous your argument is?

And you are right, not all Christians become Catholic. But that is because of the
sin of schisms. Before the schisms, one does not even talk about differentiation. Christian = Catholic. That was the way God intended.

And all Christians did not become Catholic because they were named Catholic.

And all Christians before the sin of the reformation were Catholics. That is something you cannot evade. God did not establish different Churches. If there is something we can be very sure of in the Bible it is that FACT.

No Christian = Christian.How can they belong to something before it was.

Wrong. Read your Bible. Christian = Catholic because way back at the beginning of the foundation of the Church of Christ there was no other Church except the Catholic Church. That TRUTH is as plain as day.

Your denomination started only in 1609.

No Acts did not refer to Christians as Catholics. They were Christians. That is what you want to believe. It never states they were Catholic. They were Christians plain and simple. Christians.

All that Catholic means is universal, that is one church that extends to the world. When they started including Gentiles, then the Church became Catholic. At the beginning it was just a sect within the Jewish religion But that is not what Christ had in mind for His Church. He wanted it to be Catholic as can be seen from His commisioning of the apostles to preach to all the nations.

The NATURE of the early Church was Catholic.

I ask you where in the Bible does Jesus say this? Where does Jesus say that its a Communion of Saints and of believing in the ONE HOLY CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH?

Aaah, you see, that Church that started at Pentecost came up with the Nicene Creed. And guess what, they came up with the Nicene Creed EVEN BEFORE they completed the Canon.

Besides all your arguments become null and void because you are using a Catholic book - the Bible.

You are basing your arguments upon a book that the Catholic Church gave the world.

 

[At_Trent]

Ok Ok yes Jesus started the Catholic Church. I say that because that is what you want to here. Anything less then that you would not accept. I have given you answers but you won’t accept them because its not what you want to hear so I gave you what you want to hear. But I don’t believe it.

Now you mock the Church in His Name. And then end with a heretical statement.

You are in my prayers kevin

 

[po18guy]

Yes I am. I am Baptized Catholic and Baptized as Baptist.

Thank you. That is comforting to know.

 

[po18guy]

Ok Ok yes Jesus started the Catholic Church. I say that because that is what you want to here. Anything less then that you would not accept. I have given you answers but you won’t accept them because its not what you want to hear so I gave you what you want to hear. But I don’t believe it.

Catholic and Orthodox have the claim of direct descent from Christ. Can you see this?

 

[benedictus2]

rev_kevin:
Sure he said those things but did he say BELIEVE in them? No he said BELIEVE in me. The word here is BELIEVE.True. But He said much more than that. You are not really following Christ and cannot be called a Christian until you accept everything He said in totality. But, you are negating some of His very words. Why is that?

So you either take the Bible seriously or you don’t. When you take only a tiny bit of what Christ said, you are not believing in the Bible at all.

Believe who? Christ when he said believe in me or the Catholic Church that says you have to believe in what we say is true? I take Christ.

Rev Kevin, how can you say you take Christ when you are selective as to which of His Words you want to follow?

You believe what suits YOU not what suits Christ. What suits Christ is clear in the Bible. but you reject quite a lot of it that do not gel with what YOU want to believe.

When you tell your child to study, help your mom with the chores, pray before you go to bed, this child cannot be said to have complied with your will if he only prays before going to bed while neglecting to study and help his mom with the chores.

That is what you do. You pick and choose which of Christ’s words you want to follow. So who is the boss here then -.you or Christ.? Obviously not Christ since it is your will that gets done not His.

 

[rev_kevin]

Kevin, if you honestly do not believe that the Catholic Church began with Jesus, then you must, out of moral obligation to the truth, reject the 66 books of your bible and begin to compile your own assemblage of what you consider to be scripture.

No one - not even Jack Chick in all of his foaming-at-the-mouth hatred of the Catholic Church, has ever ventured to do this. Why not? Please explain.

Please explain your reasons for rejecting authority of the Catholic Church (whose council and whose Pope declared as revealed truth each word in the bible you now hold), while clinging to the bible which that same authority approved. I mean, if it’s a bogus Church, then it’s a bogus bible.

I never said the Catholic Church is a bogus church. And I never said I hated the Catholic Church, so please don’t say something that I never said. As a matter of fact I have always said that I have nothing against the Catholic Church and I have also said I respect the Catholic Church. The Bible is inspired by God, no matter who put it together, or who wrote it, it is the inspired word of God.

I never said it wasn’t Scritpure. You see it in one view, the Cahtolic view and I see it in another view. It don’t mean because I see it differently then you that it is not Scripture.

Your getting frustrated because I won’t see it the way you want me to and when someone wants someone to see things their way and the other person don’t then frustration get a hold of the person who insists on his way. And I believe that is where you are at now.