Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

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hosemonkey said:
Be advised, regardless of what zerinus might tell you, the mormon “church” is built on fraud and deception. Joseph Smith was a con man who fabricated the entire belief system. The theology of the mormon “church” is non-Christian, in spite of their many protestations to the contrary. No mainstream Christian organization recognizes the mormon “church” as being Christian. Do not be deceived. Appearrently the mormon “god” lives on Kolob.
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Just posted this on another thread. Seems appropriate here.

mormonwiki.org/Lying_for_the_Lord
 
hosemonkey said:
Be advised, regardless of what zerinus might tell you, the mormon “church” is built on fraud and deception. Joseph Smith was a con man who fabricated the entire belief system. The theology of the mormon “church” is non-Christian, in spite of their many protestations to the contrary. No mainstream Christian organization recognizes the mormon “church” as being Christian. Do not be deceived. Appearrently the mormon “god” lives on Kolob.
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Thank you for your concern, House. Out of respect for Zer who is taking the time to answer my questions, i should remind you that it is the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, or LDS church, not the Mormon church.

I appreciate your warning, for even Adolph Hitler said, “If you speak any lie loud enough, and frequently enough, the masses will believe it.” I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, nor any reason to doubt Zer’s. Yet both of you cannot have the whole truth. Either Zer has the truth, or you have the truth, or neither of you have her.

You might be sincere, yet sincerely wrong, and the same might be true of Zer. My goal, here, is to find the most reliable way to determine the truth about the Book of Mormon, apply that method, and then see where the truth herself leads me.

You see, perhaps i have an advantage over you or Zer, for either of you might be deceived, and not willing to admit it. You are both partisans, believing that you already have the truth. Your goal and Zer’s might only be to convince me you are right. I, however, am not a partisan; i’m a philosopher. I care not whether i convince anyone of anything, as long as i convince myself. I’m willing to give up any preconceptions i have to gain the truth at any cost. That is my hope and prayer, for she is beautiful and my desire.

7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. …

20Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? 23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
(Proverbs 1)
If you have any documentation to support your accusations against Joseph Smith, please share them with me, House. Regarding Kobol, do Mormons believe it is the planet of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, or the planet of the God of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
 
mjf001 said:
I watched this show Saturday afternoons on channel 20 (This was a local UHF channel, which eventually became the Fox affiliate after switching to VHF - for all not familiar with SLC). Everytime my dad noticed me watching it, he would start talking about the lost tribes of Israel.:rolleyes: He didn’t understand I was only interested in the show for the laser guns:) , oh yeah, and the space battles. Funny, they seemed alot cooler, back then.🤷 Sorry, didn’t mean to hijack the thread, just brought back memories.😃
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MJF:

We’re all hijackers, here! 😉

I think Starbuck makes a much more intriguing character when played by a female actor.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Why would you say this is appropriate for our discussion, Indy?

🤷
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Seems quite appropriate when discussing the “truth” of Mormonism. If “lying for the Lord” is openly admitted, it would seem that it is one of the tenets that would be good to take into consideration.
 
zerinus said:
I believe that the Book of Mormon is true in every way. It is 1) Historically true. All the events described in it actually took place, and all the people that are mentioned in it actually lived. 2) It is scripturally true. The Book of Mormon is not only true historically, but it is sacred history. It is a book of scripture equal to the Bible. What Peter said about the Bible is applicable to the Book of Mormon: it did not come “by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost” (2 Peter 1:21). 3) It is theologically true. It contains the “fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ,” as the Lord Himself has testified in our time: …
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Yes, thank you Zer, that is what i’m trying to decide for myself. I can see you have a strong conviction about the truth of the Book of Mormon. If only my conviction for or against the book was as strong! Until i obtain such a confidence, i’ll keep praying, and reading the Book of Mormon, and asking questions of God and you.

I have a question about chapter 5 of the book you asked me to read:

1 And now behold, there was not a living soul among all the people of the Nephites who did doubt in the least the words of all the holy prophets who had spoken; for they knew that it must needs be that they must be fulfilled. 2 And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken. 3 Therefore they did forsake all their sins, and their abominations, and their whoredoms, and did serve God with all diligence day and night.
(3 Nephi)

I’m fascinated in the fact that in chapter 2, many of the people were deceived, but by chapter 5, no one was deceived any longer. After reading this passage, i believe the Holy Spirit is revealing something to me. I want to ask you to see if the same was revealed to you.

Please tell me, Zer, in the quoted passage, what does Mormon give as the reason why they changed their minds and exchanged a lie for the truth?

🤷
 
but I’ve never seen any sermons where he used the Book of Mormon as a source for doctrine or even quoted from it.

That’s because you won’t find Mormon doctrine in the Book for Morons.

In fact, many places the BofM flat out contradicts current Mormon teaching.

The REAL source of Mormon teaching is Doctrine and Covenants, containing the teachings of their deceased Living Prophets: the President of their church for whom they claim an infallibility that Pio Nono could only dream of.
 
bpbasilphx said:
but I’ve never seen any sermons where he used the Book of Mormon as a source for doctrine or even quoted from it.

That’s because you won’t find Mormon doctrine in the Book for Morons.

In fact, many places the BofM flat out contradicts current Mormon teaching.

The REAL source of Mormon teaching is Doctrine and Covenants, containing the teachings of their deceased Living Prophets: the President of their church for whom they claim an infallibility that Pio Nono could only dream of.
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BPB:

What doctrine in the D & C contradicts the Book of Mormon?

🤷
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, thank you Zer, that is what i’m trying to decide for myself. I can see you have a strong conviction about the truth of the Book of Mormon. If only my conviction for or against the book was as strong! Until i obtain such a confidence, i’ll keep praying, and reading the Book of Mormon, and asking questions of God and you.

I have a question about chapter 5 of the book you asked me to read:

1 And now behold, there was not a living soul among all the people of the Nephites who did doubt in the least the words of all the holy prophets who had spoken; for they knew that it must needs be that they must be fulfilled. 2 And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken. 3 Therefore they did forsake all their sins, and their abominations, and their whoredoms, and did serve God with all diligence day and night.
(3 Nephi)

I’m fascinated in the fact that in chapter 2, many of the people were deceived, but by chapter 5, no one was deceived any longer. After reading this passage, i believe the Holy Spirit is revealing something to me. I want to ask you to see if the same was revealed to you.

Please tell me, Zer, in the quoted passage, what does Mormon give as the reason why they changed their minds and exchanged a lie for the truth?

🤷
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Well, if you read chapters 3 and 4, the answer to that question becomes obvious. At the beginning of chapter 2, it says that the people (or a large proportion of them) began to become very wicked. The rest of chapters 2 and 3 describe how the wicked ones became more wicked, and seduced many more good people to join them. They formed a band of robbers known as the “Gadianton robbers” who “infest the mountains . . .”. Thus all those wicked people gravitate to those band of robbers, who lived outside of the civilized settled areas, and terrorized the people who live in towns and cities. Eventually this band of robbers became so wicked and so numerous that they declared open was on those living peacefully in towns and cities. Their prophet leaders warn them that they must repent, otherwise they will be destroyed by those band of robbers. They repent, and by the advice of their leaders and the wisdom of God they succeeded in destroying that band of robbers. So the only people that are now left are those who have repented, and the wicked ones have been destroyed. That answers your question of what caused them to change their minds, and exchange a lie for the truth. The answer is that many of them in fact didn’t. Those that didn’t were destroyed in the great war that followed. The rest that did, it was because they had repented after hearing the teachings and preachings of their prophet leaders, who warned them that if they did not repent, they would be destroyed. So the only people that are now left are those who either had never sinned, or who had repented of their sins. The rest had been destroyed

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
Well, if you read chapters 3 and 4, the answer to that question becomes obvious. At the beginning of chapter 2, it says that the people (or a large proportion of them) began to become very wicked. The rest of chapters 2 and 3 describe how the wicked ones became more wicked, and seduced many more good people to join them. They formed a band of robbers known as the “Gadianton robbers” who “infest the mountains . . .”. Thus all those wicked people gravitate to those band of robbers, who lived outside of the civilized settled areas, and terrorized the people who live in towns and cities. Eventually this band of robbers became so wicked and so numerous that they declared open was on those living peacefully in towns and cities. Their prophet leaders warn them that they must repent, otherwise they will be destroyed by those band of robbers. They repent, and by the advice of their leaders and the wisdom of God they succeeded in destroying that band of robbers. So the only people that are now left are those who have repented, and the wicked ones have been destroyed. That answers your question of what caused them to change their minds, and exchange a lie for the truth. The answer is that many of them in fact didn’t. Those that didn’t were destroyed in the great war that followed. The rest that did, it was because they had repented after hearing the teachings and preachings of their prophet leaders, who warned them that if they did not repent, they would be destroyed. So the only people that are now left are those who either had never sinned, or who had repented of their sins. The rest had been destroyed

zerinus
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Yes, i understand. Still, there are those who were decieved who genuinely repented. So, i’m still looking for an answer to my question: What reason does Mormon give that those who were at first deceived changed their minds and believed the truth? I believe verse 2 has the answer, but what do you think that answer is?

1 And now behold, there was not a living soul among all the people of the Nephites who did doubt in the least the words of all the holy prophets who had spoken; for they knew that it must needs be that they must be fulfilled. 2 And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken. 3 Therefore they did forsake all their sins, and their abominations, and their whoredoms, and did serve God with all diligence day and night. (3 Nephi)​
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Thank you for your concern, House. Out of respect for Zer who is taking the time to answer my questions, i should remind you that it is the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, or LDS church, not the Mormon church.

I appreciate your warning, for even Adolph Hitler said, “If you speak any lie loud enough, and frequently enough, the masses will believe it.” I have no reason to doubt your sincerity, nor any reason to doubt Zer’s. Yet both of you cannot have the whole truth. Either Zer has the truth, or you have the truth, or neither of you have her.

You might be sincere, yet sincerely wrong, and the same might be true of Zer. My goal, here, is to find the most reliable way to determine the truth about the Book of Mormon, apply that method, and then see where the truth herself leads me.

You see, perhaps i have an advantage over you or Zer, for either of you might be deceived, and not willing to admit it. You are both partisans, believing that you already have the truth. Your goal and Zer’s might only be to convince me you are right. I, however, am not a partisan; i’m a philosopher. I care not whether i convince anyone of anything, as long as i convince myself. I’m willing to give up any preconceptions i have to gain the truth at any cost. That is my hope and prayer, for she is beautiful and my desire.
7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. …

20Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:
21She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,
22How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? 23Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.
(Proverbs 1)
If you have any documentation to support your accusations against Joseph Smith, please share them with me, House. Regarding Kobol, do Mormons believe it is the planet of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, or the planet of the God of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost?
Click to expand...
You are either an honest seeker or one who is very naive. I am inclined to believe the latter. Many fall for the mormon deception, but later find that they have been deceived. The key to understanding the mormon claims is to very closely investigate the background and character of their founder. He is a man who was convicted of fraud, fabricated his own history, concocted a huge lie regarding a “revealed” religion, deceived his wife in order to commit serial adultery and had aspirations to overthrow the government of the United States. He died a megalomaniac in a blaze of gunfire. Not my idea of a godly or saintly figure.
 
hosemonkey said:
You are either an honest seeker or one who is very naive. I am inclined to believe the latter. Many fall for the mormon deception, but later find that they have been deceived. The key to understanding the mormon claims is to very closely investigate the background and character of their founder. He is a man who was convicted of fraud, fabricated his own history, concocted a huge lie regarding a “revealed” religion, deceived his wife in order to commit serial adultery and had aspirations to overthrow the government of the United States. He died a megalomaniac in a blaze of gunfire. Not my idea of a godly or saintly figure.
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Do you have any documentation to support your accusations against the founder of the LDS church?

🤷

I agree that the moral conduct of the founder is important. I just want to make sure your claims about him are not unfounded.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Interesting Rebecca. What is the relationship between Kobol and the LDS church? In the latest TV series it is the planet where the Greek gods and goddesses once lived in the presence of the human race.
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In mormonism, God lives on a planet that is near to the star Kolob.
 
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