Did Joseph Smith ever quote from the Book of Mormon?

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Yes, Indy, the link has quotes from Mormon prophets about Joseph Smith, which is what i wanted. Perhaps there are also quotes by Joseph Smith himself? I’ll keep reading.

👍

The only problem with Wiki is that anyone can modify the information, so i will want to verify anything i read there from other sources.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, i understand. Still, there are those who were decieved who genuinely repented. So, i’m still looking for an answer to my question: What reason does Mormon give that those who were at first deceived changed their minds and believed the truth? I believe verse 2 has the answer, but what do you think that answer is?

1 And now behold, there was not a living soul among all the people of the Nephites who did doubt in the least the words of all the holy prophets who had spoken; for they knew that it must needs be that they must be fulfilled. 2 And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken. 3 Therefore they did forsake all their sins, and their abominations, and their whoredoms, and did serve God with all diligence day and night. (3 Nephi)​
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The answer goes further back. You will find it in these verses:

3 Nephi 3:

15 Yea, he said unto them: As the Lord liveth, except ye repent of all your iniquities, and cry unto the Lord, ye will in no wise be delivered out of the hands of those Gadianton robbers.

16 And so great and marvelous were the words and prophecies of Lachoneus that they did cause fear to come upon all the people; and they did exert themselves in their might to do according to the words of Lachoneus.
25 And they did fortify themselves against their enemies; and they did dwell in one land, and in one body, and they did fear the words which had been spoken by Lachoneus, insomuch that they did repent of all their sins; and they did put up their prayers unto the Lord their God, that he would deliver them in the time that their enemies should come down against them to battle.

That is the answer to your question.

zerinus
 
Zer:

I apologize! I think i did not phrase the question correctly. Let me see if i can ask it clearly this time:

My question is this: Why did “they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come”? Does not Mormon answer the question by saying that the reason why is “because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already”?

In other words, am i correct that verse 2 has both the question and the answer to the question? Please read it again:

And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken. (3 Nephi 5:2)
 
What i’m thinking is that you or i should not limit the Holy Spirit. Yes, he may give you a strong feeling of conviction that something is true, and that might be enough to convince you. Someone else, who has perhaps a weaker faith than you, might need more convincing. So the Holy Spirit might bring about some fulfillment of a prediction made by a prophet long ago, so that person of weaker faith than yours might see this evidence and become convinced. To someone else, He might answer a prayer in a remarkable way, or do some kind of miracle.

Is it not possible that the Spirit of God will use any of these methods, and perhaps many others besides, to bring as many who will repent and believe to the truth about Jesus and His way to salvation?
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Zer:

I apologize! I think i did not phrase the question correctly. Let me see if i can ask it clearly this time:

My question is this: Why did “they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come”? Does not Mormon answer the question by saying that the reason why is “because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already”?

In other words, am i correct that verse 2 has both the question and the answer to the question? Please read it again:

And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken. (3 Nephi 5:2)
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The reason why they “knew” is because they had repented. In a sense, it would be correct to say that they always “knew”. But they (or some of them) had chosen to follow the ways of Satan and disbelieve it. But after they had repented, they returned to their former true belief.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
The reason why they “knew” is because they had repented. In a sense, it would be correct to say that they always “knew”. But they (or some of them) had chosen to follow the ways of Satan and disbelieve it. But after they had repented, they returned to their former true belief.

zerinus
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Yes, they repented (or changed their minds). They repented of their lack of faith in the coming of Christ. The question is, why did they repent? My thought is that the question why is answered by the the phrase beginning with the word because.

Please read and tell me what Mormon says in verse 2:

And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken.*(3 Nephi 5:2)*What does verse 2 mean, Zer? Please give me your honest opinion.
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, they repented (or changed their minds). They repented of their lack of faith in the coming of Christ. The question is, why did they repent? My thought is that the question why is answered by the the phrase beginning with the word because.

Please read and tell me what Mormon says in verse 2:

And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come, because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets; and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken.*(3 Nephi 5:2)*What does verse 2 mean, Zer? Please give me your honest opinion.
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They had received those signs and wonders, and initially believed them, before they turned wicked and stopped believing them. But as a result of the preaching of Lachoneus, and the threat to their lives they faced from the robbers, they repented, and returned to their original belief. That I think is made clear in the text. I don’t know why you seem to have difficulty accepting that.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
They had received those signs and wonders, and initially believed them, before they turned wicked and stopped believing them. But as a result of the preaching of Lachoneus, and the threat to their lives they faced from the robbers, they repented, and returned to their original belief. That I think is made clear in the text. I don’t know why you seem to have difficulty accepting that.

zerinus
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Yes, i believe these are reasons they repented and believed in Jesus Christ, but not the only reasons, as verse 2 gives additional reasons why they believed.

Perhaps if i tell you what 3 Nephi 5:2 means to me, you will be able to see what i mean. If you get my meaning and see that i have erred, i hope you will point out where i misunderstand the meaning of verse 2:

(1a) “And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come …”
means
(1b) They knew Jesus would come to them
and
(2a) “… because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets …”
means
(2b) The reason why they knew Jesus would come to them is that they had witnessed, with their own eyes, the predictions the prophets made about the future actually come true …
and
(3a) “… and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken.”
means
(3b) Since those predictions of the future came true, they knew the other prediction, that is, the prediction that Jesus would soon come to them, would also come true.

I’m not denying that the struggles with their enemies and the powerful preaching of God’s spokesperson played a role in their conversion. I’m not denying the power of the Spirit of God to convict them of the guilt of their sin of unbelief played a role. I’m just saying that, in addition to these, the evidence of the predictions of the future coming true also played a role in their repentance and putting their faith in Jesus Christ. I think this is what Mormon is teaching in verse 2, do you?
 
Maybe our difficulty in understanding each other stems from a different understanding of the word prophecy. I understand the word to mean a prediction about the future given by the Spirit of God to one of His spokespersons.

Are you understanding the word prophecy to mean something different, Zer?

🤷
 
I don’t want to become too much of a burden to you, Zer. If you are weary of trying to explain chapter 5 to me, just let me know, and i’ll move on to another chapter. I do appreciate your patience in answering my questions, but don’t want to expect too much of you.

:o
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Yes, i believe these are reasons they repented and believed in Jesus Christ, but not the only reasons, as verse 2 gives additional reasons why they believed.

Perhaps if i tell you what 3 Nephi 5:2 means to me, you will be able to see what i mean. If you get my meaning and see that i have erred, i hope you will point out where i misunderstand the meaning of verse 2:

(1a) “And they knew that it must be expedient that Christ had come …”
means
(1b) They knew Jesus would come to them
and
(2a) “… because of the many signs which had been given, according to the words of the prophets …”
means
(2b) The reason why they knew Jesus would come to them is that they had witnessed, with their own eyes, the predictions the prophets made about the future actually come true …
and
(3a) “… and because of the things which had come to pass already they knew that it must needs be that all things should come to pass according to that which had been spoken.”
means
(3b) Since those predictions of the future came true, they knew the other prediction, that is, the prediction that Jesus would soon come to them, would also come true.

I’m not denying that the struggles with their enemies and the powerful preaching of God’s spokesperson played a role in their conversion. I’m not denying the power of the Spirit of God to convict them of the guilt of their sin of unbelief played a role. I’m just saying that, in addition to these, the evidence of the predictions of the future coming true also played a role in their repentance and putting their faith in Jesus Christ. I think this is what Mormon is teaching in verse 2, do you?
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I think I know what you are getting at here. Okay, I will go along with that.

zerinus
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
I don’t want to become too much of a burden to you, Zer. If you are weary of trying to explain chapter 5 to me, just let me know, and i’ll move on to another chapter. I do appreciate your patience in answering my questions, but don’t want to expect too much of you.

:o
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You are no burden at all. Sorry for the delay, but I do have other things to do! Can’t always reply immediately as you posts.

zerinus
 
Socrates4Jesus said:
Thanks for your opinion, MJF. From what i understand (and my understanding might not be complete), Zer seems to be saying that the following truths can be discerned by the work of the Holy Spirit on you or i, despite any additional, objective evidence supporting them:

(A) Mathematical truths(B) Observational truths(C) Testimonial truths(D) Historical truths(E) Scientific truths(F) Emotional truths(G) Moral truths(H) Metaphysical truthsYou appear to be saying that there is no historical evidence or archaeological evidence to support the Book of Mormon, so one cannot say that it has (D), nor can one say that there are any (E) to demonstrate it accurately depicts ancient history. So, the Book of Mormon should be rejected on historical and scientific grounds. Is this what you are saying?
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Yes, I reject the Book of Mormon on historical and scientific grounds. Not only that, but I found it to be an uninteresting read. I don’t think I ever read more than thirty pages, and it was a struggle to get that far. To go a step further, I reject it on spiritual grounds.
The missionaries will tell you to read the BoM and pray about it. If it is of God, the Holy spirit will testify of the truth. That was the only research I was encouraged to do to know my faith.

Allow me to postulate this supposition. Faith and reason should not contradict each other. I first heard this in while I was in RCIA, and it made sense to me. There are too many incongruities surrounding the Joseph Smith story, the finding and translation of the gold plates, and the disappearance of the gold plates. Add to that the lack of historical and scientific evidence, and you have a pretty good argument that to believe in the BoM, you must, to some extent, suppress reason. My question would be this, given my previous statement, how can you trust any feeling you get from praying on the truth of the BoM? How do you know the answer is coming from God? How do you know the feeling isn’t simply an emotional reaction caused by a suggestion of the missionaries? Or from the enemy?
 
mjf001 said:
How do you know the answer is coming from God? How do you know the feeling isn’t simply an emotional reaction caused by a suggestion of the missionaries? Or from the enemy?
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I can only assume from your question that you have never recieved communication from God before – or at least are not sure if you did or not.

If God wishes to speak to His children He will surely make a way for us to understand that the communication is from Him. I have certainly felt the Spirit and Power of God before and it is unmistakably from Him.

What a powerful way to find truth – go to the source. Are you suggesting that a sincere prayer to God will be ignored and not answered?
 
StevenErickson said:
Are you suggesting that a sincere prayer to God will be ignored and not answered?
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That’s been my experience as regards the BoM. I prayed sincerely in faith whether the BoM is true: in seminary, throughout my mission, before and after my temple marriage. I never got a recognizable answer one way or another despite my faith, sincerity, and growing desperation. God was utterly silent. I had to use other means to find truth - reason, the weight of the evidence, logic. Now I’m enrolled in RCIA.
 
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