Did Peter create the Catholic Church?

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r1xlx said:
catholic church is just the renamed pagan worship of idols from before Jesus.
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Patently false on multiple counts.

We do not worship idols, nor do we place anything ahead of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. If your church teaches what you posted, then let me recommend that you seek out a church that doesn’t use lies-- which I did a bit over 50 years ago.
 
RaisedCatholic said:
Paul writes to the Corinthian Church why there was dissention even in their church - because they were identifying with the apostles (such as Peter) & other church leaders (like Apollos), as opposed to Christ Himself.
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This was a denominations
 
Maximian said:
The part that is excluded is not part of the whole.
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The incongruence begins. To me it is telling of the faultiness of the original proposition.

Reminds me of the quagmire of abortion. On one hand a doctor can terminate the life in a mothers womb and its just a legal abortion. On the other hand a man assaults the pregnant mother causing the unborn baby to die and it’s murder. Schizoid.Incongruent legal thought.
Like we are torn between the truth and justifying what we want .

So on one definition of church we are excluded. By another definition/ decree we are brethren, how be it imperfectly united or not in fullness. Therefore we must be a community, but can not be a church. Therefore we have saving graces but are in peril having no valid eucharist or reconcilliation/ confession. We are to be true to our God given conscience and convictions, yet if we knowingly refuse the CC per same convictions we are in peril.

Something is wrong when tongue speaks out of both sides of the mouth.

Reminds me a bit of the unclarity of Peter towards gentiles that Paul had to correct.

On one hand you have your hardliners, that literally there is no salvation outside the CC. On the other you have realists who have eyes and ears to see the spiritual life in Christ in non Roman Catholics, and a somewhat faulty or problematic biblical and historical basis to reject them.
 
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A. Nowhere does that say non Catholics are part of the Church
B. The shifty language of Vatican II (especially the word subsistit) is one of the reasons the Church is in bad need of clarification.
 
Reminds me of a somewhat agnostic Benjamin Franklin, who had more clarity than other Christians when he suggested formal prayer preceeding the stalled constititional convention one hot and sticky summer. More than one have testified to the winds picking up thereafter taking them to the finish line…

So you are not ignorant of our ways and therefore can see some things others (and me) may need to be reminded of perhaps…anyways, lol, feel free to back me up anytime
 
Maximian said:
A. Nowhere does that say non Catholics are part of the Church
B. The shifty language of Vatican II (especially the word subsistit) is one of the reasons the Church is in bad need of clarification.
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This is the perfect opportunity to explain how non Catholics can be in imperfect communion with the CC without being a part of it. I have been waiting for someone to explain that for a long time so please explain.

For a Catholic to state that the shifty language of Vatican II is but one of the reasons the Church is in bad need of clarification is in my mind stating that the CC is not pure and perfect and has not formulated it’s decrees totally relying on the direction of the Holy Spirit but rather is mixed with the will of men.

If you are sincere and honest in your presentation it would seem to this non-Catholic that you may in fact be a Protest-ant.
 
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Am I wrong in understanding that individual laity are obligated to accept whatever the Hierarchy has determined to be the leading of the Holy Spirit?
 
I am sure you are 100% correct. I think that difficulty would represent itself within any church.
The problem as I see it, is when a Church claims to be the one and only true perfect Church. Within the non-Catholic realm, most churches would readily admit that they may have some incomplete understanding that comes with assimilated culture…those that claim to be the one and only true pure are dangerously cultish.
 
Those groups don’t qualify because they were founded long after the time of Christ and the apostles.
 
Oh boy, your response just verifies how easily communication becomes distorted Lol! If you would please read the beginning of my last sentence…it was not any reference to the CC but to those within the non-Catholic realm.
 
Thank you…I understand for I believe what you describe is also how I/we feel when all non-Catholic Churches are lumped together as Protestants in a derogatory fashion.
 
Even in the Catholic Church, there are those who are traditionalist and modernist, so it really depends. Some people like to refer to things in a broad way, rather than specifically, maybe as a way not to direct everyones’ attention on that particular denomination and also stereotype.
 
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The Apostle Peter didn’t create the Catholic Church. Jesus founded His Church, the Catholic Church, on the Apostle Peter.

W. F. Albright [Protestant; Archaeologist, Philologist, Biblical Scholar]:
“Peter as the Rock will be the foundation of the future community, the church…To deny the pre-eminent position of Peter among the disciples or in the early Christian community is a denial of the evidence” [Anchor Bible Commentary].

Primacy of St. Peter Verified by Protestant Scholars

 
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Malka said:
Primacy of St. Peter Verified by Protestant Scholars
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Well, be careful. There is a Protestant/Orthodox view of primacy, and a Catholic one.

So while some P’s may believe Peter as rock, they certainly view papacy succession as an error in other direction.

From your posted article:

"Yet if it were not for Protestant reactions against extremes of Roman Catholic interpretation"
 
Mga panalangin ni Pedro
Diyos! Walang-wala ako maliban sa buhay na ito. Bagaman hindi ito gaanong karapat-dapat sa Iyo, nais kong ihandog ito sa Iyo. Bagaman hindi karapat-dapat na magmahal sa Iyo ang mga tao, at ang kanilang pag-ibig at mga puso ay walang-silbi, naniniwala ako na nakikita Mo ang layon sa mga puso ng mga tao. At kahit na ang mga katawan ng mga tao ay hindi katanggap-tanggap sa Iyo, ninanais kong tanggapin Mo ang aking puso.’ Sa pagbigkas sa mga panalanging ito nakakatanggap siya ng kalakasan, lalo na nang siya ay nanalangin: ‘Buo kong iaalay ang aking puso sa Diyos. Kahit na wala akong anumang bagay na magawa para sa Diyos, tapat kong bibigyang-kasiyahan ang Diyos at buong-pusong iuukol ang aking sarili sa Kanya. Naniniwala ako na dapat tumingin ang Diyos sa aking puso.’ Sinabi niya: ‘Wala akong hinihiling sa buhay ko maliban na ang mga kaisipan ko ng pag-ibig sa Diyos at ang pagnanasa ng puso ko ay tanggapin ng Diyos. Napakatagal kong kasama ang Panginoong Jesus, nguni’t hindi ko kailanman inibig Siya, ito ang pinakamalaking pagkakautang ko. Kahit na nanatili akong kasama Niya, hindi ko Siya kilala, at nagsalita pa nang ilang hindi angkop na mga bagay sa likuran Niya. Kapag iniisip ko ang mga bagay na ito, ipinadarama nito na lalo akong may pagkakautang sa Panginoong Jesus.’ Palagi siyang nananalangin sa ganitong paraan. Sinabi niya: ‘Ako ay mas mababa sa alikabok. Wala akong magagawa maliban ang ialay ang pusong tapat na ito sa Diyos.
 
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Wannano said:
Thank you for standing up for honesty. @anendlesswaltz, you will find that not all Catholics on CAF will actually give you the facts about their own church but rather their own understanding which often is not accurate.
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For this reason, the Church has the catechism. We are not a Church of opinions but of God’s revealed truth. Please bear in mind that not all has been revealed.

The Lord did not leave us orphans.
 
Wannano said:
This is the perfect opportunity to explain how non Catholics can be in imperfect communion with the CC without being a part of it.
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One way is through baptism. For example, my non-Catholic Mother had been baptized as an infant. Because of this baptism, she could have received the sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick from a priest, had she wanted to, before she died. She was a Christian through baptism. One of the sacraments Christians can receive before they die is the sacrament of Anointing of the Sick. This is what Christians did before the man-made denominations came along.

It isn’t her fault she wasn’t Catholic. Her parents, like her, believed the false teachings of the Lutheran church.
 
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Christ created it he gave keys to Peter, Peter and the popes are just keeping watch until the Lord returns.
 
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