Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?

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One thing for sure: the level of corruption or alleged corruption is commensurate to the level of power in Washington. Time to reimpose the strict enumerated powers and the 10th amendment
Be great if we could.

Problem is there’s too many people who…:bighanky: care-sooo-much about their friends :crying: that they have to have the courts do the governing in case they like want to marry someone someday or something or change their gender, and don’t you dare question it, or we shall unless the flurry of ists and isms at you! :knight1:

Oh, and there’s people who think the government should provide them with football stadiums and national health insurance.

Because its caring…just as long as they can use the force of government to make someone else pay for it and take most of the credit.
 
Link to CNN article

DNC rebuffed request to examine computer servers

“The FBI repeatedly stressed to DNC officials the necessity of obtaining direct access to servers and data, only to be rebuffed until well after the initial compromise had been mitigated,” a senior law enforcement official told CNN. “This left the FBI no choice but to rely upon a third party for information. These actions caused significant delays and inhibited the FBI from addressing the intrusion earlier.”

This statement is in response to reports that the FBI never asked the DNC for access to the hacked systems.

So, the evidence that Russia hacked the DNC comes from a private cyber-security firm’s assessment rather than from an FBI investigation, and the DNC refused to allow the FBI to analyze the server.

This seems very strange to me.

[us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf]Grizzly Steppe—Russian Malicious Cyber Activity](https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf]Grizzly Steppe—Russian Malicious Cyber Activity)

JOINT ANALYSIS REPORT

DISCLAIMER: This report is provided “as is” for informational purposes only. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within. DHS does not endorse any commercial product or service referenced in this advisory or otherwise. This document is distributed as TLP:WHITE: Subject to standard copyright rules, TLP:WHITE information may be distributed without restriction. For more information on the Traffic Light Protocol, see us-cert.gov/tlp.

JOINT ANALYSIS REPORT

This Joint Analysis Report (JAR) is the result of analytic efforts between the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). This document provides technical details regarding the tools and infrastructure used by the Russian civilian and military intelligence Services (RIS) to compromise and exploit networks and endpoints associated with the U.S. election, as well as a range of U.S. Government, political, and private sector entities. The U.S. Government is referring to this malicious cyber activity by RIS as GRIZZLY STEPPE.

Previous JARs have not attributed malicious cyber activity to specific countries or threat actors. However, public attribution of these activities to RIS is supported by technical indicators from the U.S. Intelligence Community, DHS, FBI, the private sector, and other entities. This determination expands upon the Joint Statement released October 7, 2016, from the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security.

So as far as I can tell, the entire hypothesis that Russia haccked the DNC comes from Crowdstrike’s investigation, which this report “does not endorse,” and not from a law enforcement or intelligence analysis at all.

Report

After CrowdStrike released its Ukraine report, company co-founder Dmitri Alperovitch claimed it provided added evidence of Russian election interference. In both hacks, he said, the company found malware used by “Fancy Bear,” a group with ties to Russian intelligence agencies.

I assume by Russian election interference they are referring to the US election, which the same company is also investigating.

Dmitrova noted that the FBI and the U.S. intelligence community have also concluded that Russia was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the email account of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager.

Note the circular logic: the accuracy of the Crowdstrike report is validated by the agreement of other organizations. But these organizations are relying on Crowdstrike’s assessment for their conclusions.

Well, I guess I can finally vote, for option #4.
 
Link to CNN article

DNC rebuffed request to examine computer servers

“The FBI repeatedly stressed to DNC officials the necessity of obtaining direct access to servers and data, only to be rebuffed until well after the initial compromise had been mitigated,” a senior law enforcement official told CNN. “This left the FBI no choice but to rely upon a third party for information. These actions caused significant delays and inhibited the FBI from addressing the intrusion earlier.”

This statement is in response to reports that the FBI never asked the DNC for access to the hacked systems.

So, the evidence that Russia hacked the DNC comes from a private cyber-security firm’s assessment rather than from an FBI investigation, and the DNC refused to allow the FBI to analyze the server.

This seems very strange to me.

[us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY%20STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf]Grizzly Steppe—Russian Malicious Cyber Activity](https://www.us-cert.gov/sites/default/files/publications/JAR_16-20296A_GRIZZLY STEPPE-2016-1229.pdf]Grizzly Steppe—Russian Malicious Cyber Activity)

JOINT ANALYSIS REPORT

DISCLAIMER: This report is provided “as is” for informational purposes only. The Department of Homeland Security (DHS) does not provide any warranties of any kind regarding any information contained within. DHS does not endorse any commercial product or service referenced in this advisory or otherwise. This document is distributed as TLP:WHITE: Subject to standard copyright rules, TLP:WHITE information may be distributed without restriction. For more information on the Traffic Light Protocol, see us-cert.gov/tlp.

JOINT ANALYSIS REPORT

This Joint Analysis Report (JAR) is the result of analytic efforts between the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). This document provides technical details regarding the tools and infrastructure used by the Russian civilian and military intelligence Services (RIS) to compromise and exploit networks and endpoints associated with the U.S. election, as well as a range of U.S. Government, political, and private sector entities. The U.S. Government is referring to this malicious cyber activity by RIS as GRIZZLY STEPPE.

Previous JARs have not attributed malicious cyber activity to specific countries or threat actors. However, public attribution of these activities to RIS is supported by technical indicators from the U.S. Intelligence Community, DHS, FBI, the private sector, and other entities. This determination expands upon the Joint Statement released October 7, 2016, from the Department of Homeland Security and the Director of National Intelligence on Election Security.

So as far as I can tell, the entire hypothesis that Russia haccked the DNC comes from Crowdstrike’s investigation, which this report “does not endorse,” and not from a law enforcement or intelligence analysis at all.

Report

After CrowdStrike released its Ukraine report, company co-founder Dmitri Alperovitch claimed it provided added evidence of Russian election interference. In both hacks, he said, the company found malware used by “Fancy Bear,” a group with ties to Russian intelligence agencies.

I assume by Russian election interference they are referring to the US election, which the same company is also investigating.

Dmitrova noted that the FBI and the U.S. intelligence community have also concluded that Russia was behind the hacks of the Democratic National Committee, Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the email account of John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign manager.

Note the circular logic: the accuracy of the Crowdstrike report is validated by the agreement of other organizations. But these organizations are relying on Crowdstrike’s assessment for their conclusions.

Well, I guess I can finally vote, for option #4.
This right here.👍, which no one is picking up, except another poster who outlined all of this in post #143.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=14557478&postcount=143

However, now Crowdstrike is retracting statements they used in their report to buttress Russians hacked the DNC servers.

voanews.com/a/cyber-firm-rewrites-part-disputed-russian-hacking-report/3781411.html

thebaffler.com/salvos/from-russia-with-panic-levine

Wikileaks exposed Crowdstrike and how inaccurate their report was.
Their founder is also an Obama crony.

DNC needs to be forced/petitioned to turn over their servers. The question is why won’t they?
 
This is about the most obtuse question I have seen in a day or so. First define interfere. I know of no one who changed their mind by revelations on wiki-leaks. I have not heard of any vote tallies manipulated by the dreadful Russians. What is the question?
 
This is about the most obtuse question I have seen in a day or so. First define interfere. I know of no one who changed their mind by revelations on wiki-leaks.
That perhaps speaks to the limitations of the circle of those you know or your knowledge of how they voted more than it speaks to a lack of interference.
I have not heard of any vote tallies manipulated by the dreadful Russians. What is the question?
The question is the extent to which we allow foreign nations to control our internal election process. There are ways to do that other than manipulating voting machines.
 
That perhaps speaks to the limitations of the circle of those you know or your knowledge of how they voted more than it speaks to a lack of interference.

The question is the extent to which we allow foreign nations to control our internal election process. There are ways to do that other than manipulating voting machines.
Like what?
 
That perhaps speaks to the limitations of the circle of those you know or your knowledge of how they voted more than it speaks to a lack of interference.

The question is the extent to which we allow foreign nations to control our internal election process. There are ways to do that other than manipulating voting machines.
Maybe you know somebody who changed their mind because of wikileaks. If so I think they were less knowledgeable about candidates and issues then the average voter. And since the average voter knows very little to nothing, as the typical voter has their feelings to guide them, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. But, I can still stand behind the original comment. I am not aware of anybody having paid much if any attention to wikileaks except on this forum. And really we have never established who feed wikileaks the Podesta e-mails or DNC gossip.

And you still haven’t defined interfere.

Like could we define Clinton bundlers funneling millions from China for the 1996 election interference or the house of Saud chipping millions into Clinton slush fund interference. and does anybody care where Obama and the Bushes money came from.

Somebody needs to define interference.

Because that seems to me to be a lot more interruptive.
 
Maybe you know somebody who changed their mind because of wikileaks. If so I think they were less knowledgeable about candidates and issues then the average voter. And since the average voter knows very little to nothing, as the typical voter has their feelings to guide them, I wouldn’t be surprised if they did. But, I can still stand behind the original comment. I am not aware of anybody having paid much if any attention to wikileaks except on this forum.
Yes, I understand what your experience has been. What you have not shown is that your experience is all that anyone needs to pay attention to.
And really we have never established who feed wikileaks the Podesta e-mails or DNC gossip.
Who is “we”? The US Intelligence Agencies have established that.
 
Selective release of embarrassing information acquired illegally. We didn’t see what was in the Republican e-mails.
Back to " telling the truth is interference" I don’t think many buy that.

It has already been discussed how RNC computers had superior security.

So, these are no go. What else you got?
 
Back to " telling the truth is interference" I don’t think many buy that.

It has already been discussed how RNC computers had superior security.
No matter what the reason for the one-sided release of information, it is still one-sided. Just ask any prosecutor if he can use true information acquired by illegal means by police in a trial.
 
This is about the most obtuse question I have seen in a day or so. First define interfere. I know of no one who changed their mind by revelations on wiki-leaks. I have not heard of any vote tallies manipulated by the dreadful Russians. What is the question?
To the best of their knowledge the FBI and NSA did not detect Russian interference in the vote tallies or hacking into the machines, etc. But apparently the Russians did hack into voter registration rolls and I think tried to hack the voting.

And it wasn’t just leaking unaltered emails, etc. The FBI and NSA said it was also pushing out disinformation and vicious lies against Hillary Clinton – flooding various media, cellphones, emails with it.

I think this could have impacted people’s votes, because during the election season I saw lots of posts about Hillary even here at CAF that were bizarre and off-the-wall fake news things against her. Now that could have been from people reading US-originated tabloid stuff…or from Russian-originated tabloid stuff. Hard to tell. But the FBI/NSA did detect Russia pushing out that stuff in massive amounts.

Also a final straw was the Russian-leaked Podesta email that said bad things about Catholics. And quite frankly I was on board being disgusted with certain Catholic media that were off-the-wall viciously attacking Hillary (perhaps influenced by the Russian stuff); it was very unchristian and ugly, totally ignoring any good points about Hillary or bad points about Trump. But they made Podesta’s email to come across as being anti-Catholic in general, not just about certain elements that are wrong or bad.

I voted for Hillary (would have preferred Bernie) and am proud of it because she would have done more to mitigate climate change (and strive to avert mass annihilation of life on earth) AND likely would have done more to reduce abortion with various social programs for women and children AND would have been better for the economy. In my estimation she is more of a child-friendly person than Trump, who would kick poor women and children off of healthcare and other supportive programs. I didn’t see anything wrong with her (including her email thing and talks on Wall Street – which were practically about nothing), except her pro-choice stance, which in my books just didn’t rise to the seriousness of Trump’s anti-environment, anti-life stance.
 
No matter what the reason for the one-sided release of information, it is still one-sided. Just ask any prosecutor if he can use true information acquired by illegal means by police in a trial.
This is actually what I originally thought. People are pissed the truth was told about Hillary!
 
Any criminal trial. Say, a drug dealer is on trial for pushing drugs, but the evidence the police have was acquired by search of his house without a warrant. It is true evidence. But it is deemed unfair to use it in a trial.
Once again what trial? Are we talking about the election?
 
Once again what trial? Are we talking about the election?
Once again, any trial. No, I am not talking about a trial related to the election. I am illustrating that releasing the truth is not always excusable. The example of police using information obtained without a warrant proves that point.
 
Yes, I understand what your experience has been. What you have not shown is that your experience is all that anyone needs to pay attention to.

Who is “we”? The US Intelligence Agencies have established that.
So you don’t now anybody either , good.

As far as the US intelligence agencies kind of an oxymoron however, you mean the same folks who brought us Gulf of Tonkin, weapons of mass destruction, can hack everything and make it look like Russians. Yea, believe them if you want.
 
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