Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?

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I can’t for the life of me figure out why some Trump supporters can’t just admit that he lost the popular vote. Everyone knows that the electoral college is what decides the election. Digging in your heels and refusing to acknowledge reality when it doesn’t even change anything just makes you look ridiculous.

This is a big part of my issue with Trump. He’s so thin skinned and insecure that he has to die on every unimportant hill. It’s like the inauguration crowd thing. Who really cares at the end of the day? All he had to say is something like, “Well, DC is a very Democratic city, so it makes sense that there would be less of a crowd for a Republican president. But to those people who didn’t support me, I hope I can win your support over the next four years.” Instead he has to try to convince us that our eyes are lying to us and the crowds were the biggest of all time.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
I can’t for the life of me figure out why some Trump supporters can’t just admit that he lost the popular vote. Everyone knows that the electoral college is what decides the election. Digging in your heels and refusing to acknowledge reality when it doesn’t even change anything just makes you look ridiculous.
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He lost the popular votes as counted. Nobody deny that AFAIK. However, there was the possibility of many illegal, non-citizens who voted and therefore muddied that final result somewhat. We don’t know how many, there might be no way to know the exact number, but obviously the side not happy about it certainly can complain about something that is not legal, not right.
 
JonNC said:
Again, the problem is you are allowing others to determine what you think about the MSM.
If you want to know what progressives think about a topic, read Alinsky, Marcuse, Sanders and others who they read. Since the MSM speaks for the left, that’s precisely who one should view to find out about the left.
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The strategy you propose for learning the truth seems to be to read what the extreme left thinks about it and then read what the extreme right thinks about it, and then take the average of these extreme views and end up somewhere near the truth. That strategy is flawed because the average of two extreme views depends more on the skill of the writers involved, rather than on the truthfulness of the positions they represent. It is sort of like trying to determine if the world is flat by taking the average between a scientist who says it is a ball about 8000 miles in diameter and a flat-earther who says it a plane supported by four turtles. That averaging strategy would lead to you believe that the earth is something like a salad bowl supported by two turtles.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
I can’t for the life of me figure out why some Trump supporters can’t just admit that he lost the popular vote. Everyone knows that the electoral college is what decides the election. Digging in your heels and refusing to acknowledge reality when it doesn’t even change anything just makes you look ridiculous.

This is a big part of my issue with Trump. He’s so thin skinned and insecure that he has to die on every unimportant hill. It’s like the inauguration crowd thing. Who really cares at the end of the day? All he had to say is something like, “Well, DC is a very Democratic city, so it makes sense that there would be less of a crowd for a Republican president. But to those people who didn’t support me, I hope I can win your support over the next four years.” Instead he has to try to convince us that our eyes are lying to us and the crowds were the biggest of all time.
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Because the Dems like to rub our noses in it about the popular vote. They are the ones who think President Trump is illegitimate because of this popular vote myth. I know the count was certified, but can anybody really say every single vote was counted?? I know some states don’t even count absentee votes unless they are necessary for the electoral college
 
Michael68 said:
Because the Dems like to rub our noses in it about the popular vote. They are the ones who think President Trump is illegitimate because of this popular vote myth. I know the count was certified, but can anybody really say every single vote was counted?? I know some states don’t even count absentee votes unless they are necessary for the electoral college
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So why not just respond “Yeah, he lost the popular vote, but who cares?”

And can anyone say every single vote was counted? Probably not. I doubt the election was literally perfect. But I don’t think there’s any evidence it was off by several million.
 
Michael68 said:
Because the Dems like to rub our noses in it about the popular vote. They are the ones who think President Trump is illegitimate because of this popular vote myth.
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I don’t think the emphasis on the popular vote would have been quite so loud if Trump had not tried to sell his squeaker victory as an overwhelming popular mandate. A more humble President might have said (as some past Presidents have said) that they realize they were not everyone’s choice, and they intend to work hard to represent everyone - even the ones that didn’t vote for them. But Trump is loathe to admit that anyone didn’t vote for him. Humility is very foreign to him.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
So why not just respond “Yeah, he lost the popular vote, but who cares?”

And can anyone say every single vote was counted? Probably not. I doubt the election was literally perfect. But I don’t think there’s any evidence it was off by several million.
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You’re right, it doesn’t matter until they throw it up again!
 
lynnvinc said:
I wouldn’t drink a bottle of poison marked with a scull and cross-bones just to see if it really were poison or not.

Nothing you can say can make me go over to Breitbart.

I have no firsthand info about it, and am not claiming to be an expert on it, but I’ve heard enough bad things from people I trust, and that’s enough for me.

Don’t make me eat that apple. 🙂
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What is wrong with Breitbart? What bad things have you heard?

I haven’t noticed anything bad about it.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
So why not just respond “Yeah, he lost the popular vote, but who cares?”

And can anyone say every single vote was counted? Probably not. I doubt the election was literally perfect. But I don’t think there’s any evidence it was off by several million.
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Yeah, he lost the popular vote, but who cares?

His strategy was to win the Electoral College votes in order to win the Presidency as required by the election system. So why are we bringing up the matter of popular votes since that did not count in winning the election unless … one wants to cast aspersion on the win or to illegitimize it.
 
Reuben_J said:
So why are we bringing up the matter of popular votes since that did not count in winning the election unless … one wants to cast aspersion on the win or to illegitimize it.
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Like Leaf said, I think it’s mostly a response to Trump pretending he has a landslide mandate. He doesn’t. He won a very narrow victory. Still counts as a victory, but he doesn’t have a very wide base of popular support.
 
BoomBoomMancini said:
If you’re a conservative, you should be watching MSNBC every now and again. If you’re a liberal, you should tune into Fox periodically. We can’t have a national conversation if we all just retreat to our separate bubbles.
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Occasionally I will watch a little bit of MSNBC or CNN or check liberal news sites on the internet like Huffington Post. I watched a little bit of Greta. Sometimes I try to watch
Rachel Maddow (that usually doesn’t last long). I can watch a little bit of Anderson
Cooper or Wolf Blitzed just to get their take on things. I notice in ratings MSNBC beats
CNN in the ratings! Maddow is even second to O’Reilly now!!! That is shocking.
I still prefer conservative talk radio and Drudge Report. I also read Newsmax.
 
Michael68 said:
Was 100% of the votes cast counted?
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What the FEC reports are the official tallies, certified by officials of the states. Do you have some idea that there are states that failed to count the votes cast? Is there foundation for that idea?
 
Michael68 said:
Because the Dems like to rub our noses in it about the popular vote.
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I cannot speak for Dems, but I am not interested in nose rubbing, but correcting the mistake that I often see made of conflating the electoral college vote with the the vote of the people, or with the preference of the people.
 
lynnvinc said:
It is sort of confusing. I don’t think they were at liberty to tell everything, but even if it were just “trying” to hack in, that is still very bad. (But good the Republicans had a more secure server or whatever to prevent the hack.)

By next election we can expect the Russians to have become even more skilled in their abilities to hack in, which is why I think we Americans should be working on preventing that in any way we can.

The Russians are NOT trying to help America by helping elect someone they think will be better for our country (even if you believe Trump is better for our country and even if in fact he is). The Russians are doing all this to help themselves in various ways, and as Comey and Rogers said to harm and undermine America.
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The problem is that if the Russians were unable to hack the RNC computers, they would be *unable *to release their emails.

To me, what is being said is: “Looks like the Russians tried to get in, but we know for a fact that they didn’t release any RNC emails,” along with, “The Russians did not release any RNC emails, so we know they were trying to affect the election towards Trump.”

To me, the above sort of statements are indicative of strong spinning.
 
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