Did Russians interfere in the 2016 U.S. elections and is such interference acceptable?

  • Thread starter Thread starter lynnvinc
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
It’s far more likely that current states in the EU will turn to Putin as the EU collapses in on itself than for American to turn to Russia.

American and Russian turning to each other is just a twitter fantasy of hard-core Trump supporters, many of whom do not understand the global landscape.
Actually they are not the least bit clueless. There are people working very hard on solutions. But the answers are not simple, and are not what the Trump followers want to hear.
They are in Europe. Greece with its debt crisis and the countless number of migrants stranded there on the islands and mainland. The neo-Nazis are still too popular, Marxists have recently started mailing bomb parcels and protests are still common. The EU isn’t giving them much leeway.
Even though the far-right party isn’t going to win in Sweden, they have too much power in their legislature mostly because of mass immigration and integration.
Despite the defeats in Austria and the Netherlands, there should be genuine concern that next time they may not be so lucky to avoid electing such people if they continue as if it’s business as usual.
 
While murdering opponents, destroying the independence of the judiciary and press, and running a kleptocracy. He supports traditional values of gay bashing and wife beating. He has violated international law by annexing territory by conquest. He had acted as a war criminal in Syria.

He is no champion of Christianity, and is a disgrace in particular to Eastern Christianity.
All of this is standard basic standard operating procedure: KGB 101.

[Yeah, yeah, yeah … they changed the name of KGB.]
 
So, yesterday, we had the name and testimony on live television by Evelyn Farkas who blabbed, leaked and unmasked American persons. Several ten year felonies for her.

patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2017/03/30/leaker-or-whistleblower-it-depends-on-your-point-of-view/

And. TODAY. We have the name of Susan Rice who blabbed, leaked and unmasked American persons.

thegatewaypundit.com/2017/04/report-obama-nsa-advisor-susan-rice-requested-unmasking-incoming-trump-officials/

zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-03/report-mike-cernovich-reveals-natl-security-advisor-susan-rice-responsible-unmasking

They are going to have to open a new wing at the Federal penitentiary.

Ft. Leavenworth has been a perennial favorite.

bop.gov/locations/institutions/lvn/

Keep reading for more names.

[Guessing that Obama will continue to stay near Tahiti indefinitely.]

sandrarose.com/2017/03/open-post-obama-jets-off-to-tahiti/

Who will occupy the 8,000 square foot house that the Obama family leased?

townandcountrymag.com/leisure/real-estate/news/g2535/obama-new-house-photos/

**
 
The words “interfere” and “acceptable” need to be defined and most importantly: who cares? I interfered with the election by voting for Trump and trashing Clinton on social media. Several foreign countries interfered with the election by donating millions to the Clinton Foundation. Clinton interfered with the election by deleting thousands of emails she put at risk for foreign hacking. The media interfered with the election with obscenely biased reporting (just as they did and admitted to doing in the 2008 election). The witch hunt is over. Trump is your president.
 
Except that the MSM was not all favoring Hillary. They reported Comey’s announcement days before the election, and that was very damaging. Also social media was used more than the MSM to form people’s views.
Seriously.

?]
 
So, yesterday, we had the name and testimony on live television by Evelyn Farkas who blabbed, leaked and unmasked American persons. Several ten year felonies for her.

patheos.com/blogs/warrenthrockmorton/2017/03/30/leaker-or-whistleblower-it-depends-on-your-point-of-view/

And. TODAY. We have the name of Susan Rice who blabbed, leaked and unmasked American persons.

thegatewaypundit.com/2017/04/report-obama-nsa-advisor-susan-rice-requested-unmasking-incoming-trump-officials/

zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-03/report-mike-cernovich-reveals-natl-security-advisor-susan-rice-responsible-unmasking

They are going to have to open a new wing at the Federal penitentiary.

Ft. Leavenworth has been a perennial favorite.

bop.gov/locations/institutions/lvn/

Keep reading for more names.

[Guessing that Obama will continue to stay near Tahiti indefinitely.]

sandrarose.com/2017/03/open-post-obama-jets-off-to-tahiti/

Who will occupy the 8,000 square foot house that the Obama family leased?

townandcountrymag.com/leisure/real-estate/news/g2535/obama-new-house-photos/

**
My, my, what an imagination you have!
 
Is anyone interested in proving that Russia was responsible, let alone “solely” responsible for Trump’s victory over Clinton? I have not heard that from anyone. Where does that come from?
From the off-the-wall comments coming out of US politicians mouths in relation to Russia, ‘allegedly’, swaying the results. ‘An act of war,’ etc…* inferring* that Russia was the sole instigator for swaying the results, which as stated earlier would be impossible to quantitatively verify.

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/dick-cheney-russia-us-presidential-election-interference-donald-trump-george-w-bush-vice-president-a7653986.html

IF the Russians did very little, or had little effect, then who cares - c’est la vie. It’s especially strange, when the USA is renowned for interfering with elections, and/or regime change, overseas. 🤷 Pot, kettle, black.

npr.org/2016/12/22/506625913/database-tracks-history-of-u-s-meddling-in-foreign-elections

*This is hardly the first time a country has tried to influence the outcome of another country’s election. The U.S. has done it, too, by one expert’s count, more than 80 times worldwide between 1946 and 2000.

Well, for my dataset, the United States is the most common user of this technique. Russia or the Soviet Union since 1945 has used it half as much. My estimate has been 36 cases between 1946 to 2000. We know also that the Chinese have used this technique and the Venezuelans when the late Hugo Chavez was still in power in Venezuela and other countries.*
 
From the off-the-wall comments coming out of US politicians mouths in relation to Russia, ‘allegedly’, swaying the results. ‘An act of war,’ etc…* inferring* that Russia was the sole instigator for swaying the results, which as stated earlier would be impossible to quantitatively verify.

independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/dick-cheney-russia-us-presidential-election-interference-donald-trump-george-w-bush-vice-president-a7653986.html

IF the Russians did very little, or had little effect, then who cares - c’est la vie. It’s especially strange, when the USA is renowned for interfering with elections, and/or regime change, overseas. 🤷 Pot, kettle, black.

npr.org/2016/12/22/506625913/database-tracks-history-of-u-s-meddling-in-foreign-elections

*This is hardly the first time a country has tried to influence the outcome of another country’s election. The U.S. has done it, too, by one expert’s count, more than 80 times worldwide between 1946 and 2000.

Well, for my dataset, the United States is the most common user of this technique. Russia or the Soviet Union since 1945 has used it half as much. My estimate has been 36 cases between 1946 to 2000. We know also that the Chinese have used this technique and the Venezuelans when the late Hugo Chavez was still in power in Venezuela and other countries.*
Whatever the U.S. is said to have done in the past doesn’t make it acceptable for Russia to interfere in our elections; just unsurprising.

But at this point, there is no independent verification that Russia hacked the DNC emails or that, if it did, it had any effect on the election.
 
Whatever the U.S. is said to have done in the past doesn’t make it acceptable for Russia to interfere in our elections; just unsurprising.

But at this point, there is no independent verification that Russia hacked the DNC emails or that, if it did, it had any effect on the election.
It doesn’t make it unacceptable, either, if the country in question has done the same to others.

If Ireland was known to interfere with elections of other countries and then stated a country had done the same with their election - that would come under the category of ‘tough,’ or, at least,very hypocritical.

Needless to say, as you mentioned above, there is no evidence that Russia did hack the DNC emails, and/or what effects - whoever did so - had on the election result, if any.
 
Maybe the Brexit vote should be nullified, because by the same criteria, I interfered in last June’s referendum in the UK, by making numerous internet posts on various sites as well as sending e-mails that voters in the UK were able to read, in which (according to liberal-mainstream opinion) I grossly exaggerated the threat of Islamic terrorism to the point of even offering speculation that police in some European countries may have covered up some less serious terrorist attacks.
 
Maybe the Brexit vote should be nullified, because by the same criteria, I interfered in last June’s referendum in the UK, by making numerous internet posts on various sites as well as sending e-mails that voters in the UK were able to read, in which (according to liberal-mainstream opinion) I grossly exaggerated the threat of Islamic terrorism to the point of even offering speculation that police in some European countries may have covered up some less serious terrorist attacks.
So it was YOU that swayed the vote - shame on you! 😃

Mind you, you’ll have to be very convincing to compete with the ‘old favourite’, that gets the blame for everything.

***Labour MP claims it’s ‘highly probable’ Russia interfered with Brexit referendum
Ben Bradshaw said it would fit a pattern of meddling from the Russian state ***

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/russian-interference-brexit-highly-probable-referendum-hacking-putin-a7472706.html
 
It doesn’t make it unacceptable, either, if the country in question has done the same to others.

If Ireland was known to interfere with elections of other countries and then stated a country had done the same with their election - that would come under the category of ‘tough,’ or, at least,very hypocritical.

Needless to say, as you mentioned above, there is no evidence that Russia did hack the DNC emails, and/or what effects - whoever did so - had on the election result, if any.
What they are also focused on is making sure it doesn’t happen in the future. Apparently from what they said, the Russians did try to hack into some voting machines (but to their knowledge had not done so) and actually did hack into voter registration lists of various states and used these to target voters with disinformation.

I personally think all the Russian efforts would have impacted the vote, but not enough to have made a difference in outcome. I think it possible, maybe likely they caused some voters to switch from Hillary to Trump, more Trump supporters to turn out and vote for Trump, and/or less Hillary supporters to turn out and vote Hillary. I don’t think that is an unreasonable assessment considering the intense and varied active measures they conducted. There are lots of people in the middle who could go either way or may not be motivated much to go and vote – those are the people who may have been impacted.

What I don’t think is that the Russians would have swayed enough such voters to have made an ultimate difference in who was elected president (since our electoral college makes it difficult to do so), only in the numbers here and there in the states they mainly targeted. For instance, even if they had swayed 11,000 Michigan voters to either switch to Trump, come out and vote for Trump when they wouldn’t have, or stay home and not vote when they would have voted for Hillary, that only would have thrown Michigan to Trump when it would have gone to Hillary without Russian interference. But Trump still would have had enough electoral votes, even losing Michigan, to win the election.

Even if Russians had swayed 23,000 Wisconsinites, making Hillary lose Wisconsin – and without such interference Wisconsin would have gone to Hillary, Trump still would have won the electoral college.

In order for Trump to have won due to Russian interference, it would have to be that Russia interfered with some 45,000 Michigan votes, as well as with the tipping numbers in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania.

Do you see how far-fetched it is that the Russians would have actually thrown the election to Trump – it would mean that they had influenced over 78,000 voters to either change their vote to Trump, get out and vote for Trump, or stay home and not vote for Hillary in those 3 close states.

What the intelligence communities are concerned about now (and what we should be concerned about) is that their efforts and abilities will be increasing in the future, and that we need to do things to prevent the interference. Maybe next time, without our efforts and diligence to reduce or prevent such interference, the Russians (or some other foreign entity) just might be able to sway over 100,000 voters, and IFF it is a close election and those voters are in close states, that just might throw the election to someone the Americans would not have voted for otherwise.

Of course, if the Russians are able to get in somehow and actually change the votes, that would really be bad. We shouldn’t let that happen.
 
What they are also focused on is making sure it doesn’t happen in the future. Apparently from what they said, the Russians did try to hack into some voting machines (but to their knowledge had not done so) and actually did hack into voter registration lists of various states and used these to target voters with disinformation.

.
What, specifically, was the disinformation that the Russians targeted voters with?
 
If I was Democrat voter I would be angry at the suggestion they are so gullible! Really, how do you insult your own voters?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top