Difference between Catholic "speaking in tongues" as oppose to Pentecostal "speaking of tongues"

[Daniel_Marsh]

The Bible states that if you speak in an unknown tongue, you edify yourself.
Wikipedia says that there are over 6803 known tongues or languages on the planet. Who’s to say that speaking in Tongues isn’t one of those that Americans haven’t heard but still exist?

It would be cool for some non-spanish speaking person to suddenly praise God in fluent Spanish. However, let God be God. He’s in charge. We just have to believe.

An Linquist is trained to spot language patterns in languages that they do not know. The fact remains, those experts, linquists who are trained to do so, do NOT see any language patterns in all of the thousands of instances that they have examined. Any human language has patterns ( in grammar school, we are taught to diagram sentences ), there is simply no patterns among modern tongues speakers for them to diagram.

Yes, God makes promises. He promised Abraham and Sarah a child. They went ahead of God and tried to supply the means themselves through Hagar. Latter God fulfilled his promise through Sarah. I see a lot of people faking it to supply God with their means of fulfilling his promises just like Abraham and Sarah did with Hagar.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

The word ‘unknown’ is problematic.

Douay Rheims : He that speaketh in a tongue, edifieth himself: but he that prophesieth, edifieth the church.

KJV : He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.

NAB : Whoever speaks in a tongue builds himself up, but whoever prophesies builds up the church.

So I went to E-sword and Strongs.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh2980 in an unknown tongue1100 edifieth3618 himself;1438 but1161 he that prophesieth4395 edifieth3618 the church.1577

notice that “unknown” is shaded. The shaded words are “added words” supposedly for clarification.

So I consorted with the Greek Bible:

o lalwn glwssh eauton oikodomei: o de profhteuwn ekklhsian oikodomei.

There is nothing in the Greek to support the addition of the adjective “unknown”.

Therefore I would have to conclude that the translators inserted words to fit their own personal belief and not of that which of God.

This is one of the many reasons why the KJV is a corrupt translation. IMHO.

Translation is simply interpretation, the word “unknown” would be supplied by the context. The language is unknown to the speaker, thus supplying the word unknown is an acceptable translation in this context.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi JoeyWarren

The opening of I Cor 13, Paul is using exagerations. No one spoke in the language of angels in scripture. In fact, no one has by faith thrown litteral mountains into the sea. No one by faith has poured gasoline on themselves and light the match.

if one reads through the book of Acts paying attentsion to “full” “pour” “filled” “upon” “power” with the Holy Spirit, you will see that the same people had to be refilled often and that the result of the power of the Holy Spirit was simply boldness to witness about Jesus. Read Acts 6 & 7 Stephen, never spoke in tongues at all. In fact, we are told exactly what his spiritual gifts were. And, him being filled with the Spirit gave him the power to preach the sermon is Acts 7. Peter being full of the spirit gave him the boldness to preach the gospel message in Acts 2.

Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Notice it does NOT say they spake in tongues.

Remember Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit in acts two.

Look at Acts 4

8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

9If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;

10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

From being filled with the Spirit Peter was bold in his preaching of the gospel.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.
Tell me do you remember John the Baptist speaking in tongues?

Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Did Elizabeth speak in tongues?

Luke 1:67
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

ah, how about Zacharias?

Luke 2:25
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Simeon?

Luke 4:1
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Jesus?

Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and** ye shall be witnesses** unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus plainly tells us the purpose of being filled with the Holy Ghost is to witness to others about himself.

Acts 6:5
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

No tongues for Stephen.

All these people full of the Holy Spirit and yet no tongues.

 

[dessert]

Yes, God makes promises. He promised Abraham and Sarah a child. They went ahead of God and tried to supply the means themselves through Hagar. Latter God fulfilled his promise through Sarah. I see a lot of people faking it to supply God with their means of fulfilling his promises just like Abraham and Sarah did with Hagar.

Don’t you think that God promised to us everything that He had given to the apostles?
They spoke in tongues and had the gift of healing and this was passed down as God said we who have even a faith as small as a mustard seed can do greater things.
Granted prayer, ask and you shall receive, is a big part of our belief, but if prayer is prayer in any language and done sincerely, will bring forth the fruit as evident so why concecrate on the exact words that are being said.
After all did you end up buying evething on your grocery list and didn’t God give you the means to have the money to buy the food?
So your prayer was answered and if the person is speaking in tongues but doesn’t know what they themselves are saying but the spirit does. Most are not that so concerned that speak in tongues what the interp for the other person is as the prayer tongues is between you and the spirit?
Dessert

**
‘Be Jesus … Share Jesus’
Blessed Mother Teresa**

 

[dessert]

Daniel, when I was in the UPC they spoke often that Acts is for today, but I never understood this.

They spoke of Jesus death as last friday he rose this last sunday and we are always living in Acts now. Is this like crucifying Christ every week?

This is a big difference to me and the speaking in tongues as they think they are the apostles! This always baffled me and they clung to Paul like a leech to a swimmer.

Maybe the apostles and saints are walking with us now but in our prayer and their tradition and example.

What was the charasmatic movement in the Catholic church as I was off doing my own thing at the time. Do you have a link for it?

I agrree with you about the exageration, isn’t this human nature to do this sing louder preach louder than anyone, sit in the front and try to be first.

Dessert

**
‘Be Jesus … Share Jesus’
Blessed Mother Teresa**

 

[kujo313]

I speak Spanish and Italian and French. I speak the tongues of men.

1Co 13:1 Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

Paul talking about himself doing this. Does he reference anyone else doing this “Speaking with the tongues of Angels”?

Never encountered the interpetation during my Pentecostal days. It could be nothing but a rehearsed act. The history of fakes and facades over the last few decades has exposed the truth. The speaking in tongues and the subsequent interpretation could just be a different type of deception like “Faith Healers”.

1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try [test] the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

How to Test a Spirit

You can discern or test whether or not a spirit is of God by the following three ways:

**1 **Observing what a person does. In Matthew 7:15-20, Jesus explains that false prophets are known by their fruit - by their conduct and actions.

**2 **Observing whether or not a person exalts Jesus Christ as the Son of God and as Lord and Saviour (I Corinthians 12:3).

**3 **By listening to what a person says (I John 4:1-3). Does their confession line up with the truth of God’s Word?

I’m very blessed, then, to belong to a Pentecostal congregation where several people have the gift of interpretation.
In every case, all of the messages line up with God’s Word. I pray that you find one.
I also have heard that there are some churches, not necessarily in the Pentecostal denomination, that have “instruction books” on how to speak tongues! That’s rubbish and should be avoided.

The Bible says that different people was doing things in the Spirit: praying, worshipping, etc. Some see the “tongues of angels” as a Heavenly language. Either way, let everything that has breath praise the Lord!

 

[kujo313]

Hi JoeyWarren

The opening of I Cor 13, Paul is using exagerations. No one spoke in the language of angels in scripture. In fact, no one has by faith thrown litteral mountains into the sea. No one by faith has poured gasoline on themselves and light the match.

if one reads through the book of Acts paying attentsion to “full” “pour” “filled” “upon” “power” with the Holy Spirit, you will see that the same people had to be refilled often and that the result of the power of the Holy Spirit was simply boldness to witness about Jesus. Read Acts 6 & 7 Stephen, never spoke in tongues at all. In fact, we are told exactly what his spiritual gifts were. And, him being filled with the Spirit gave him the power to preach the sermon is Acts 7. Peter being full of the spirit gave him the boldness to preach the gospel message in Acts 2.

Acts 4:31
And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.
Notice it does NOT say they spake in tongues.

Remember Peter was filled with the Holy Spirit in acts two.

Look at Acts 4

8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

9If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;

10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

From being filled with the Spirit Peter was bold in his preaching of the gospel.

Luke 1:15
For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother’s womb.
Tell me do you remember John the Baptist speaking in tongues?

Luke 1:41
And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Did Elizabeth speak in tongues?

Luke 1:67
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

ah, how about Zacharias?

Luke 2:25
And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

Simeon?

Luke 4:1
And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

Jesus?

Acts 1:8
But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and** ye shall be witnesses** unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jesus plainly tells us the purpose of being filled with the Holy Ghost is to witness to others about himself.

Acts 6:5
And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Acts 7:55
But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God,

No tongues for Stephen.

All these people full of the Holy Spirit and yet no tongues.

Tongues is just one of the Spiritual Gifts. Not everybody speaks it. I do not believe that ALL believers have to speak in tongues. Those that do, let them be.

Paul answers it all in 1 Corinthians concerning gifts.

 

[guanophore]

Now, how do you all understand this text?

Hebrews 2:3-4 (King James Version)
How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

Some claim that tongues, and the other more spectaular gifts are really “sign” gifts and as such have died out with the apostles.

I have heard this too. However, it states that the “salvation” (message) was that to which the signs and wonders were bearing witness. I do not think this testimony will “die out” until the Spirit is done evangelizing the earth.

Then we have to go back to the “known” languages. “Known” to you? What about the “tongues of angels and tongues of men”?

In all cases that I have seen where I worship, “tongues” within the congregation is followed with an interpretation.

Daniel has said that he does not believe there really are tongues of angels, or that this was some sort of non-substantial reference?

Perhaps it is time to consider that you and Daniel have had only limited experience? Since you have not ascended to the third heaven yourself, perhaps you have never heard the tongues of angels?

Since all your experiences seem to have public worship with tongues in a “chaotic” manner you have not experienced this angelic worship?

 

[JoeyWarren]

Find out if that Spirit operating from within that person, is from God.

What this passage seems to be saying is - literally: Go up to a person about whom you have a question, and say something like the following:

Brother so-and-so, I am here because I want to make sure that we continue to walk in righteousness and truth, and I want to continue to make sure that all that we do is edifying to the Body of Christ, and as a result of the prompting of the Holy Spirit. So I have to ask the spirit within you a question:

In the name of Jesus Christ, I command the spirit that is within you to answer me, do you, the spirit that is Fill in the blanc : “speaking in tongues” “prophecying” “praying” etc ] acknowledge and confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh and is of God ?

If the spirit that initiates an action is either a) the person themselves or b) the Holy Spirit within them, then they will answer in the affirmative. If the spirit within them does not answer, or does not answer in the affirmative, or starts to make some other sounds, then you and others around you - may have some extra homework for the evening …or the week.

Ideally - what would be practiced in this context - would first have been preached on and addressed by the Pastor. And maybe he would have given a demonstration from the pulpit, so that people know what to expect, and so that they know that this is a Biblical teaching. Otherwise, people are going to think that you may know something that they don’t. You may be asking someone a question, and others may surmise that you know something they don’t about the person you are addressing. Next thing you know, people are grabbing him and getting ready to help you do some kind of exorcism - because you certainly must have known what you were doing, if you were going to initiate that kind of action in the midst of a meeting or Bible study.

And maybe that pastor would have given a demonstration from the pulpit, so that people know what to expect, and so that they know that this is a Biblical teaching. Otherwise, people are going to think that you may know something that they don’t. You may be asking someone a question, and others may surmise that you know something they don’t about the person you are addressing. Next thing you know, people are grabbing him and getting ready to help you do some kind of exorcism - because you certainly must have known what you were doing, if you were going to initiate that kind of action in the midst of a meeting or Bible study.

On the surface, the whole thing could have a semi-comical aspect to it. But to the person who is on the receiving end, it would not really be perceived that way. But with appropriate teaching and demonstration, it would sober up that individual church about what was going on in their situation(s) and meetings.

Certainly, John thought that Christian believers could be deceived (and still can) and that is why he and Peter took time to advise those congregations (and us) how to deal with those situations.

The Premise or idea that if a person is a Christian, that they cannot be deceived by demonic spirits, or that they cannot be deluded, that is NOT what the Bible says. The Bible is constantly warning Christians to be on guard about their own spiritual walk and their own situations because Christians CAN be deceived - yes EVEN Christians who are in a church, and YES - Even in a Church Context

If we are told (as an imperative command) to See whether they (the spirits in the situation) are of God or not, the presupposition is that some of them may not be, and Christians could be deceived by those spirits. This is why those evil spirits represent a danger, which is overcome by testing those spirits, before their messages are accepted as truth. If the WOF and others applied this test, they might have a much smaller following.

Testing the spirit in this manner would certainly make people more cautious about speaking out, wanting to ensure that the spirit inside them was the Holy Spirit. I wish that more people would do this. But this would require genuine caring by others towards the person at whom this was directed, as well as a loving attitude and ways to follow this up, in case it is found out that the spirit inside of them is Not the Holy Spirit. It would also require those who try it - to be willing to look bad or feel foolish perhaps, until they get use to it. As time passed, hopefully they would realize that other christians are following these guidelines for the spiritual safety and true spiritual wellbeing of Every Christian inside that Church.

This is a Biblical Teaching that where practiced - would lead to a church that would be much more Sober Minded and Concentrating on the REAL things of God, and not simply the latest trend or fad.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Don’t you think that God promised to us everything that He had given to the apostles?
They spoke in tongues and had the gift of healing and this was passed down as God said we who have even a faith as small as a mustard seed can do greater things.
Granted prayer, ask and you shall receive, is a big part of our belief, but if prayer is prayer in any language and done sincerely, will bring forth the fruit as evident so why concecrate on the exact words that are being said.
After all did you end up buying evething on your grocery list and didn’t God give you the means to have the money to buy the food?
So your prayer was answered and if the person is speaking in tongues but doesn’t know what they themselves are saying but the spirit does. Most are not that so concerned that speak in tongues what the interp for the other person is as the prayer tongues is between you and the spirit?
Dessert

**
‘Be Jesus … Share Jesus’
Blessed Mother Teresa**

Good point on the shopping list, but I already purchased the items the day before. Yes, God gives us bread, instead of rocks, unliess you are a rockalcholic like me and ask for rocks.

Yes, the prayer tongue is between you and God. And, like Jesus teaches we are to pray in our closet in those cases, so not to put on a show for others. But, in many pentecostal - charismatic worship services people are in fact putting on a show for others so that they be included in the “in group”. As for the gift of an apostle, I do not think that one exists as it did in the time of the apostles, because Acts 1 gives us the qualifications of an apostle, and frankly no one today meets those qualifications. I think the gift of an apostle today works out as one being a missionary. Hebrews 2:3-4 does show us that there was an apolostolic age, in fact Catholic Encylopedia referres to there being a sub-apostolic age.

We now come to the passage in St. Irenæus (Adv. Haer., III,3) which brings out in fullest relief St. Polycarp’s position as a link with the past. Just as St. John’s long life lengthened out the Apostolic Age, so did the four score and six years of Polycarp extend the sub-Apostolic Age, during which it was possible to learn by word of mouth what the Apostles taught from those who had been their hearers. In Rome the Apostolic Age ended about A.D. 67 with the martyrdom of St. Peter and St. Paul, and the sub-Apostolic Age about a quarter of a century later when St. Clement, “who had seen the blessed Apostles”, died. In Asia the Apostolic Age lingered on till St. John died about A.D. 100; and the sub-Apostolic Age till 155, when St. Polycarp was martyred. In the third book of his treatise “Against Heresies”, St. Irenæus makes his celebrated appeal to the “successions” of the bishops in all the Churches. He is arguing against heretics who professed to have a kind of esoteric tradition derived from the Apostles. To whom, demands St. Irenæus, would the Apostles be more likely to commit hidden mysteries than to the bishops to whom they entrusted their churches? In order then to know what the Apostles taught, we must have recourse to the “successions” of bishops throughout the world. But as time and space would fail if we tried to enumerate them all one by one, let the Roman Church speak for the rest. Their agreement with her is a manifest fact by reason of the position which she holds among them (“for with this Church on account of its potior principalitas the whole Church, that is, the faithful from every quarter, must needs agree”, etc.).

newadvent.org/cathen/12219b.htm

In fact, the church fathers do refer to dispensations similiar to dispensationalist of today.

conservativeonline.org/journals/02_04_journal/1998v2n4_id02.htm

conservativeonline.org/journals/02_05_journal/1998v2n5_id02.htm

conservativeonline.org/journals/02_06_journal/1998v2n6_id02.htm

conservativeonline.org/journals/03_09_journal/1999v3n9_id02.htm

conservativeonline.org/journals/03_08_journal/1999v3n8_id02.htm

 

[Sixtus]

KatholikosMercy

Re: Difference between Catholic “speaking in tongues” as oppose to Pentecostal “speaking of tongues”
Quote:Originally Posted by Daniel Marsh

The the gifts of the Holy Spirit are given at His discretion.

AMEN

 

[Cardinalsong]

OK. This thread is really long so if my response is redundant then I apologize in advance.

Here’s a really good description regarding speaking in tongues:

presentationministries.com/brochures/Tongues.asp

If this has been posted or if the scripture references have been given (1 Cor 14:2, 1 Cor 14:28) then again I apologize.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Daniel, when I was in the UPC they spoke often that Acts is for today, but I never understood this.

They spoke of Jesus death as last friday he rose this last sunday and we are always living in Acts now. Is this like crucifying Christ every week?

If I understand their position correctly, they are saying that pentecost of Acts 2 is an on going thing. And, that they believe they are the NT church. I think Newman’s essay on development of doctrine would blow their minds.

This is a big difference to me and the speaking in tongues as they think they are the apostles! This always baffled me and they clung to Paul like a leech to a swimmer.

I have had some pentecostals, even UPC claim that they have had an Saul - Paul experience of Jesus appearing to them. Then they will turn around and claim that say Mary can not appear to people today. Their inconsistency has always baffled me. I have even encountered some like the mormons misunderstand the thing about the apostle John not dying and claim that John himself ordained them.

Maybe the apostles and saints are walking with us now but in our prayer and their tradition and example.

What was the charasmatic movement in the Catholic church as I was off doing my own thing at the time. Do you have a link for it?

I agrree with you about the exageration, isn’t this human nature to do this sing louder preach louder than anyone, sit in the front and try to be first.

Dessert

**
‘Be Jesus … Share Jesus’
Blessed Mother Teresa**

Robert Sungenis has a seven part article on tongues in catholic church history,

catholicintl.com/epologetics/articles/pastoral/speaking-tongues1.htm

History:

One of the many spiritual renewals within the Catholic Church, the Charismatic Renewal Movement, started in 1967 when a handful of students and university theology professors from the DuQuesne University in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, got together for a retreat weekend. From there it spread to the university campuses of South Bend, Ind. and East Lansing, Mich. in 1968.

In contrast with the Pentecostal Movement that started with poor ethnic groups in downtown Los Angeles, the Catholic Renewal started with students and professors of universities. See Pentecostal Movement.

From this small and inconspicuous beginning, by 1990, in 23 years, the movement had grown to include more than 100 million Catholics in over 238 nations. Fr. Thomas Foster, S.J., Diocese of San Jose, California, .is the United States Bishop's Liaison to the Catholic Charismatic Renewal,

Many believe that this Charismatic Renewal is a direct result of Pope John XXIII prayer at Vatican II, "O Holy Spirit… pour forth the fullness of your gifts… Renew your wonders in this day as by a new Pentecost".

Some of the Catholic leadership of the new movement were Ralph Martin, Steve Clark, Kevin Ranaghan, and Father Jim Ferry.

By 1972 Leo Joseph Cardinal Suenens, Archbishop of Malines-Brussels, of Belgium (1904-96), personally encountered the Charismatic Renewal during a visit to the United States. He was immediately taken by this encounter, appealing as it did to his keen desire to see the Church flourish as in a new Pentecost through the work of the Holy Spirit, and for him, this amounted to a life-long goal as a spokesman and the movement's sponsor within the Roman hierarchy.

In many ways Cardinal Suenens was an unlikely person to carry the banner for the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Personally reserved, even shy, overly intellectual… as captured by Cardinal Danneels in his funeral homily, "how could a cardinal with a face that did not show many emotions, with a straight and immobile stature, with a grave and steady voice, find himself at ease in the midst of a crowd that sang, danced, clapped hands and spoke in tongues?".

religion-cults.com/spirit/charismatic.htm

google.com/search?hl=en&q=catholic+charismatic+renewal+movement+history

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Tongues is just one of the Spiritual Gifts. Not everybody speaks it. I do not believe that ALL believers have to speak in tongues. Those that do, let them be.

Paul answers it all in 1 Corinthians concerning gifts.

1 Thessalonians 5:17-22 (King James Version)

17Pray without ceasing.

18In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

**19Quench not the Spirit. **

20Despise not prophesyings.

21Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

22Abstain from all appearance of evil.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

I have heard this too. However, it states that the “salvation” (message) was that to which the signs and wonders were bearing witness. I do not think this testimony will “die out” until the Spirit is done evangelizing the earth.

Daniel has said that he does not believe there really are tongues of angels, or that this was some sort of non-substantial reference?

Perhaps it is time to consider that you and Daniel have had only limited experience? Since you have not ascended to the third heaven yourself, perhaps you have never heard the tongues of angels?

Since all your experiences seem to have public worship with tongues in a “chaotic” manner you have not experienced this angelic worship?

What you mean, I have not been caught up to heaven?

I have been to Denver, Colorado and Dallas Texas.

Yes, there is likely an angelic language. But, in I Cor 13, I think Paul is speaking in hypoetical exaggerations. And, frankly, I would not build a doctrine that people speak the languages of angels on just one hypoetical exaggeration made in passing.

 

[Daniel_Marsh]

Hi JoeyWarren, I agree that we can be decieved that is why Paul warned the church for three years with tears.

Acts 20:31
So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

 

[KatholikosMercy]

Hi JoeyWarren, I agree that we can be decieved that is why Paul warned the church for three years with tears.

Acts 20:31
So be on your guard! Remember that for three years I never stopped warning each of you night and day with tears.

False tongues can be more than just faking too,

It can actually be a demon. I haven’t seen mention of that at all in this thread.

 

[MariaG]

Thanks for the discription. Please forgive my doubts but I was wondering if you could describe if you ever recieved confirmations of the half dozen times you saw interpretations. How did you test the Spirits?

But, is it the Correct interpretation? I have purposely read my shopping list out loud in charsimatic services to see what the interpretation was. Not once did anyone get the correct interpretation, nor did any pastor conftront me about this.

So, where is the discerning of spirits?

Long thread, I actually did read it all.

These two caught my eye. And I wanted to offer a possible explanation beyond the “Do not test the Lord your God” one.

Sometimes there is not a valid interpretation because people who are given the gift, fail to speak up.

This happened to me, and I regret to this day, not speaking up. In a Assembly of God Church, which practiced tongue speaking, with one person speaking in tongues and waiting for someone to interpret.

As a fairly new person to the this particular church and the AoG tongue speaking kind of Church, I did not have the gift of tongues but had been praying that if God were to give me a gift, He would give me the gift of Interpretation as Paul says to do. Someone spoke in tongues. Someone started to interpret almost immediately. I shook my head no, because I KNEW the interpretation was wrong. I thought to myself, “No, can’t you hear? The Angels are singing for joy because someone has been healed!”

But I said nothing.

The pastor then got up after the interpretation, (wrong interpretation) and announced that a member of the congregation, whom I never heard of and did not know was sick, had been miraculously healed. She had a brain tumor. It had been resistant to all treatment. And then it was quite simply gone.

My interpretation would have been hugely edifying to the Church, but I was too scared, anxious, and did not step out and contradict someone who had been “interpreting” for years (I believe some pride had become involved here rather than true interpretation going on).

But I said nothing. I have never again been blessed by the gift of interpretation. If I ever pray for it again, I will also pray for courage and discernment to go along with it.

Yes, I agree with that. Contrary to what some charismatics practice, I do not see a place for it in the Mass, which is our public worship. I fully agree with you (and scripture ) on that point.

But as a Catholic Christian now, I am in agreement with this statement also.

God Bless,
Maria

 

[Sixtus]

Loll I agree with you, my arguement fits so nicely as a round peg in a round hole. The problem is the Holy Spirit does take it upon Himself to ‘go where He wants’ and move others ‘how He sees fit’!

I guess we just have to be tolerant and respect diversty in worship!

 

[guanophore]

Yes, there is likely an angelic language. But, in I Cor 13, I think Paul is speaking in hypoetical exaggerations. And, frankly, I would not build a doctrine that people speak the languages of angels on just one hypoetical exaggeration made in passing.

It is good to see that you are willing to make the concession that there is likely and angelic language. however, Paul is NOT speaking in hypothetical exaggerations. This was an intensely powerful experience for him that formed the basis of his ministry throughout life.

Furthermore, it is not one statement in passing that Paul made, he made a number of statements about the value of speaking in tongues “more than you all”. To say that he spoke ‘in the tongues of men and angels’ is simply a self-description, and not a hypothetical exaggeration. If you do not want this gift, or have no appreciation for it, that is your perogative, but why try to denigrate it, and take it away from people that do appreciate it?

It seems to me very anthropomorphic to say that a language is not “valid” unless it is recognized by linguists. The language of dolphins and whales comes to mind…I realize that they give glory to their creator differently, but to say that they don’t have language is very narrow minded.

The voice of the HS during worship sounds like that of many waters. It is sweet, heavenly, and flowing.

Rev 1:12-16

12 Then I turned to see the voice that was speaking to me, and on turning I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the lampstands one like a son of man, clothed with a long robe and with a golden girdle round his breast; 14 his head and his hair were white as white wool, white as snow; his eyes were like a flame of fire, 15 his feet were like burnished bronze, refined as in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of many waters;"