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Sixtus
Guest
The main difference is that Catholics eat more haggis. It is rumoured that Catholics invest heavily in the haggis-making industry but I do not have any statistics to substantiate it 
Difference between Catholic "speaking in tongues" as oppose to Pentecostal "speaking of tongues"
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MariaG
Guest
Sadly as a charamatic Catholic, I sometimes feel âhomelessâ because my pentecostal brothers and sisters think I am going to hell in handbasket with the whore of babylon and my Catholic bretheren think I am crazy and suseptible to group think and none of it is real. And some of my Charamatic Catholic brethren question my âcharasmaticnessâ when I dare to make sense of what they sometimes say or claim that seems to contradict Catholic teachings. Trying to get clarification is harder than pulling teeth sometimes.Loll I agree with you, my arguement fits so nicely as a round peg in a round hole. The problem is the Holy Spirit does take it upon Himself to âgo where He wantsâ and move others âhow He sees fitâ!
I guess we just have to be tolerant and respect diversty in worship!
Some days, I truly just have to :crying:
Iâll never regret that the good Lord led me to the Catholic Church, but sometimes I am greatly saddened at the Christian fellowship I gave up. A whole culture really.
Talking to people who expect to see Godâs miracles and arenât afraid to witness to anyone about it. Converstations that are sprinkled liberally and honestly with âpraise Godâ, and âthe Lord told meâ.
But I have the Real Presence, and that is worth more than anything.
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happygal
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Sadly as a charamatic Catholic, I sometimes feel âhomelessâ because my pentecostal brothers and sisters think I am going to hell in handbasket with the whore of babylon and my Catholic bretheren think I am crazy and suseptible to group think and none of it is real. And some of my Charamatic Catholic brethren question my âcharasmaticnessâ when I dare to make sense of what they sometimes say or claim that seems to contradict Catholic teachings. Trying to get clarification is harder than pulling teeth sometimes.
**Hi MariaG
Being a Christian is never an easy path of everyone of us. The greatest challenge among pple relationship is not with the non-believers, but the believers instead. Becoz i too struggles with so much of misunderstanding and resentment with my church members. Is easy for me to forgive non believers , but it is difficult for me to forgive a believer, becoz i always ask myself. Why you behave such way, so talk nasty stuffâŚblarâŚblarâŚyou are a christian, how can you be like thatâŚ!!! But no matter what we are all learning and changing everyday and that is the trial that we all have to overcome.**
Some days, I truly just have to :crying:
Iâll never regret that the good Lord led me to the Catholic Church, but sometimes I am greatly saddened at the Christian fellowship I gave up. A whole culture really.
Talking to people who expect to see Godâs miracles and arenât afraid to witness to anyone about it. Converstations that are sprinkled liberally and honestly with âpraise Godâ, and âthe Lord told meâ.
**You mean there are those believers who expect to see Godâs miracles or are you refering to non believers expecting to see miracles?? **
But I have the Real Presence, and that is worth more than anything.
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MariaG
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That is so true!originally posted by happygal
Hi MariaG
Being a Christian is never an easy path of everyone of us. The greatest challenge among pple relationship is not with the non-believers, but the believers instead. Becoz i too struggles with so much of misunderstanding and resentment with my church members. Is easy for me to forgive non believers , but it is difficult for me to forgive a believer, becoz i always ask myself. Why you behave such way, so talk nasty stuffâŚblarâŚblarâŚyou are a christian, how can you be like thatâŚ!!! But no matter what we are all learning and changing everyday and that is the trial that we all have to overcome.
What I mean is sometimes the fundamentalist Christians tend to expect to see Godâs hand working in their everyday lives and love to talk about it. Catholic Christians tend not to talk in this manner, even if the expect to see it.
Your sister in Christ,
Maria
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Daniel_Marsh
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"
If that is the case then pour gasoline on yourself and light it or literally use faith to throw a mountain into the sea or ask to know all knowledge or all secrets. Yes, Paul is using the language of hypothetical exaggerations.
1 Corinthians 13
1 I may be able to speak the languages of men and even of angels, but if I do not have love, it will sound like noisy brass. 2 If I have the gift of speaking Godâs Word and if I understand all secrets, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I know all things and if I have the gift of faith so I can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give everything I have to feed poor people and if I give my body to be burned, but do not have love, it will not help me.
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guanophore
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I think you need a little more time in the history books, Daniel. People did get doused and burned alive, as well as drawn and quartered, eaten by beasts in the coliseum, and man other gruesome ends. I have personally moved mountains with faith, so you cannot convince me that is hyperbole. Many people have given all they hae to feed the poor, also, and joined the church with nothing, not even the clothes on their back. He is not saying these things are of no value, or donât happen. He is saying that doing them apart from love is of little or no value. The same is true in speaking in the tongues of angels. If it is done with pride and self centeredness, and the person has not love, it is a noisy gong. This is the experience you have described in the Pentecostal gathering. The answer to your question in the title is that tongues not used in Love are not Catholic (even if they come out of the mouth of a Catholic). Because we are told to do all things in love.If that is the case then pour gasoline on yourself and light it or literally use faith to throw a mountain into the sea or ask to know all knowledge or all secrets. Yes, Paul is using the language of hypothetical exaggerations.
1 Corinthians 13
1 I may be able to speak the languages of men and even of angels, but if I do not have love, it will sound like noisy brass. 2 If I have the gift of speaking Godâs Word and if I understand all secrets, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I know all things and if I have the gift of faith so I can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give everything I have to feed poor people and if I give my body to be burned, but do not have love, it will not help me.
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dessert
Guest
The love that Paul is speaking of is a true expression of concern.If that is the case then pour gasoline on yourself and light it or literally use faith to throw a mountain into the sea or ask to know all knowledge or all secrets. Yes, Paul is using the language of hypothetical exaggerations.
1 Corinthians 13
1 I may be able to speak the languages of men and even of angels, but if I do not have love, it will sound like noisy brass. 2 If I have the gift of speaking Godâs Word and if I understand all secrets, but do not have love, I am nothing. If I know all things and if I have the gift of faith so I can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3 If I give everything I have to feed poor people and if I give my body to be burned, but do not have love, it will not help me.
ie; E If one is just speaking tongues loudly like with authority and not concerned that others understand it is just that noise. Brass is tingy and bounces off the walls but with love of the Spirit put behind it it can be absorbrd into the person and if the person accepts it then it will change the person or the personâs expressioon will be changed many ways to accomplish this is to admit your own faults first.
If you know Godâs word and have the decernment and knowledge of the secrets that others are trying to hide from the spirit. ie; faking tongues sleeping in on sunday missing mass
then you donot approach the person in love then, you are not offering the person anything because you donât have the love to give. If you approach the person in arrogance ie; I know what you did last night got drunk! Paul is saying this will acccomplish nothing! That is what was going on in corinth they were high and mighty attitude.
If I act like I know all things ie; quote scripture. Always give praise to God donât expand own your own knowledge like O I knew that but Give thanks and praise to the Lord! If you donât give thanks to God you are expanding on the praise to yourself even the one that says that they âhad a word of knowlegeâ some one is healed it is after all Godâs word not ours. In fact this is too general as that very minute in any place in the world that someoneâs thousands have been more than likely healed. yes?
You can move mountains! Sounds too real but if you take flowers to someone in the hospital, just out of duty and just leave them at the desk but donât stop to see the person this is with out love Yes? It is tinkling brass! But if you give the flowers visit and or more of what ever God wishes it is an exxample to the nurse aide that is watching around the corner and witnessing the love and is absorbing concern and wanting to know more of your God not you because Jesus is being expressed not the tongues that you may pray for that person even maybe you are speaking in their language at the time because you didnât know it but that is what the aide understood.
**
SO THIS MEANS
LOVE
PAUL
IS
SAYING
L O V E
**
IS MOST IMPORTANT!
Dessert
âBe Jesus ⌠Share Jesusâ
Blessed Mother Teresa
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dessert
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This is bragging and boasting about what I am doing in Godâs life, donât let the devil deceive you in this way as I learned very much how to boast and brag as a fundamentalist UPC.
We all expect God to work in our life and as we are submitted to Him but should do this in quiet and not talk so much about it. Give praise and honor and thanks to God for all good things.
Dessert**
âBe Jesus ⌠Share Jesusâ
Blessed Mother Teresa**
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dessert
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That was all BOGIS Maria, donât let it get to you, just a trick of the devil to make you feel guilty and when you can forgive yourself for this you will speak in tongues again, I pray for you now!
Dessert
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dessert
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That was all BOGIS Maria, donât let it get to you, just a trick of the devil to make you feel guilty and when you can forgive yourself for this you will speak in tongues again, I pray for you now!
Dessert
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dessert
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Maria, donât let the devil beat you over the head with this, I pray you forgive your self and your tongues restored!
It was too general a word of God as many people were probably healed that day thousands even.
I was in a church where one person did all the interpeting and when she was challenged she got very jealous she even faked a fainting to get the pastors attention, because it was really an ego thing. I think this is what Danial is getting at.
Donât quit defending the truth as you know it, but I think I would spend less time with the friends that are going to cause you to stumble and that is for you to only know through the Holy Spirit which group that will be?
Isnât that from proverbs? Donât keep company with the oneâs to cause you to fall?
Prayer will reveal this to you.
Dessert
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dessert
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Yes as I just mentioned in the last thread to Maria, that a particular woman in a UPC church I attended now I realize that it was more than likely a cult after going through this and thinking about it. There are many more issues that led up to this church display. she always did the interpret and when some one else did it she faked a fainting spell and my MIL used to tell me this is famous for women. well LOL that irked me so I defended this of this women but learned it wa really a game going on butttttâŚlater learned this women had been a medium at one time you know telling fortunes etcc⌠so I am glad God got me an escape out of that church and you know if I admitted it right it never felt right but couldnât put my finger on it so stayed for awhile. I couldnât call it a demon because of loyalty like woman to woman but I still canât say it was a demon? I still see her come into the store and I think she ws just playing games? If you think games are demons then it would be a demon to you but I think the word exageration fits better. It saddens me to see if this happens in the RCC and that is why people are so strongly against the speakinfg in tongue thing I think.
The people that burn people at the stake of course are really not playing games. If I had stayed and really protested this woman it would have got nasty and then we can speak of demons.
Does this help?
Will you explain more of that you stated about demons.
Dessert
**
âBe Jesus ⌠Share Jesusâ
Blessed Mother Teresa**
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Daniel_Marsh
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The burning of christians did not occur until about ten years after Paul wrote I Cor 13 â under Nero, who burned the poor and prisoners to light his garden party. So, if christians were among the prisioners or poor they would have been burned too.
First Corinthians was written around 55-56 AD, Polycarp was burned at the stake around 155 AD, one hundred years after Paulsâ statement about burning body.
Persecution under Nero was in 64-68 A.D., at least 8-10 years latter. There is no record of christians being burned at the stake before the time of Nero.
Paul would have been aware of the practice of the Mithraists of
Quote:
The chief of the fathers, a sort of pope, who always lived at Rome, was called âPater Patrumâ or Pater Patratus." The members below the degree of pater called one another âbrother,â and social distinctions were forgotten in Mithraic unity. The ceremonies of initiation for each degree must have been elaborate, but they are only vaguely known â lustrations and bathings, branding with red-hot metal, anointing with honey, and others. A sacred meal was celebrated of bread and haoma juice for which in the West wine was substituted. This meal was supposed to give the participants super-natural virtue. The Mithraists worshipped in caves, of which a large number have been found.
newadvent.org/cathen/10402a.htmStigma: Tattooing and Branding in Graeco-Roman Antiquity C. P. Jones The Journal of Roman Studies, Vol. 77, 1987 (1987), pp. 139-155
According to the above article, runaway slaves were branded ( like cattle in the old west ) with hot irons on their foreheads with the mark of their owner. Slaves in general had a similiar mark on their shoulder or upper arm. Roman military personnel recieved a mark on their hands as a sign of royality to their commanding general.
It is possible that Paul had branding with a hot iron in mind when he wrote about having oneâs body to be burned in I cor 13:1.
Latter, about a hundred years latter when christians were being burned at the stake, the text took on the meaning of mrytardom.
It is unknown if Christians were burned by Nero, but it is a possiblity â thus at least 8-10 years latter the meaning of the text would take on the meaning of mrytardom.
Paul, refers to christians as slaves of christ, he uses military terms to describe christians, so the interpretation of branding would fit his images.
Ephesians 6:6 (King James Version)
Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart;
2 Timothy 2:3
Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.
Quote:
Cornelius Tacitusâ description of Neroâs parties:Emperor Neroâs parties in his garden were attended by all the Whoâs Who of Rome. Often the the parties were in progress, but then the dusk fell, and night arrived. There was no light around for the guests to continue to enjoy the festivities. Nero came up with a innovative solution to provide illumination: the prisoner and poors were brought and burnt on the stakes party all around the arena to illuminate the garden⌠Tacitus (The Annals, Book XV, C.E. 62-65 ) noted:
â(they) were doomed to the flames and burnt, to serve as a nightly illumination when daylight had expired. Nero offered his gardens for the spectacle.â
âŚand the party continuedâŚ
Of course, Nero, as most people know, was mad and cruel - and so, his conduct is perhaps not really so surprising - even if it was sensational.
alternativeperspective.blâŚuests.html
Bottom line Paul either wrote about branding with a hot iron or about burning at the stake ten to one hundred years before any christians were burned at the stake so to speak.
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Daniel_Marsh
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Hi Maria, simply confess your faults and ask God to use you and he will use you.
Hebrews 10:22
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
James 4:7
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Hebrews 10:22
let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
James 4:7
Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
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MariaG
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Respectfully, this is a cultural difference. The people that I know who love to talk about what God has done for them do so out of a sincere desire to praise Him and give Him the glory. Rarely do they do so out of boastful pride.
But your post shows the stark contrast of why Catholics tend not to talk about it, because they see it as boasting.
Donât make the mistake in thinking that just because you know what was your own heart that all who shout about the glory of God in their lives are doing so in a bragging or boastful way. That would be like ex-Catholics who say that because they never knew Christ in the Catholic Church, Christ is not there.
I truly believe for the most part, this is a cultural difference.
Peace,
Maria
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MariaG
Guest
That was all BOGIS Maria, donât let it get to you, just a trick of the devil to make you feel guilty and when you can forgive yourself for this you will speak in tongues again, I pray for you now!
Dessert
âBe Jesus âŚShare Jesusâ
Blessed Mother Teresa]
You misunderstood. I have since been given the gifts of tongues. However, I have never since been given the gift of interpretation.
But I sincerely thank you for you prayers
K
KatholikosMercy
Guest
Paul teaches that a proliferation of tongue-speaking in a church may actually be a sign of unbelief and Godâs ensuing judgment upon them. When Paul teaches the Corinthians about the proper use of tongues (1 Cor. 14:21), he quotes from Isaiah 28:11-12: âBy men of strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners will I speak to this people, and even then they will not listen to me, says the Lord.â Paulâs use of Isaiah is significant because he is referring to the apostate Jews of the 8th century right before they were destroyed by the Assyrians. To punish the Jews, God first allowed the Assyrians to speak in foreign tongues to them to confuse them before they were ultimately destroyed. Godâs judgment being revealed in the form of foreign tongues was first prophesied to Israel in the 15th century, B.C. (see Deut. 28:49-50). Remember also how God sent unintelligible tongues to punish His people for their lack of faith at the tower of Babel (Genesis 11).
Therefore, Paul is warning the Corinthians that their abuse of tongue-speaking is a sign of Godâs judgment against them. These abuses included many people speaking in tongues, out of turn, without an interpreter, and for pride and not the edification of the church. This is why Paul says that âtongues are a signâŚfor unbelieversâ (1 Cor. 14:22). This is the same âsignâ that God gave the unbelieving Jews before they were punished.
This is also why Paul says that unbelievers look at the whole Corinthian church speaking in tongues and conclude that they âare madâ (1 Cor. 14:23). Paul is telling the Corinthians that their abuse of tongues makes them look insane, and this is a sign of their unbelief (that is why tongues are a âsign for unbelieversâ; the âunbelieversâ were the Corinthians themselves). This is the same reason why Jesus spoke in parables, to further harden the hearts of those who did not believe in Him, as a punishment for their lack of faith (Matt. 13:13-15).
scripturecatholic.com/tongues.html
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JoeyWarren
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guanophore
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Good job Daniel! However, keep in mind that the condemned were burned for centuries before Christians became part of that group.
Paul is not speaking hyperbole.
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Sabda
Guest
Forgive me if this has been repeated. I read half way though the thread and then scanned the rest.
Iâm around Oneness Pentecostals. One thing my mom and I have noticed is that those who are converting to the Church tend to leave the Charismatic movement. Itâs the cradle Catholics who are getting involved in this movement.
I have studied this and one thing I notice about all these conversations is they almost always focus on the New Testament. They never seem to focus on the Old Testament. One reason I think that is, is because the Old Testament is quite negative in regards to speaking in tongues. In fact it was often used as a punishment and could be demonic! We need to be extremely careful with this. As we know Satan can make himself appear as an angel of light. Many people forget this and assume speaking in tongues is always from God. Not necessarily so. Another thing I have noticed is that Oneness Pentecostals ignore St Paulâs words in 1 Corthinians.
Here are some Old Testament passages to think about:
Deut 28:
47 Since you would not serve the LORD, your God, with joy and gratitude for abundance of every kind,
48 therefore in hunger and thirst, in nakedness and utter poverty, you will serve the enemies whom the LORD will send against you. He will put an iron yoke on your neck, until he destroys you.
49 "The LORD will raise up against you a nation from afar, from the end of the earth, that swoops down like an eagle, **a nation whose tongue you do not understand, **
50 a nation of stern visage, that shows neither respect for the aged nor pity for the young.
51 They will consume the offspring of your livestock and the produce of your soil, until you are destroyed; they will leave you no grain or wine or oil, no issue of your herds or young of your flocks, until they have brought about your ruin.
This is not good.
1 Kings 22
20 The LORD asked, âWho will deceive Ahab, so that he will go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?â And one said this, another that,
21 until one of the spirits came forth and presented himself to the LORD, saying, âI will deceive him.â The LORD asked, âHow?â
22 He answered, 'I will go forth and become a lying spirit in the mouths of all his prophets.â The LORD replied, âYou shall succeed in deceiving him. Go forth and do this.â
23 So now, the LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these prophets of yours, but the LORD himself has decreed evil against you."
God allowed a spirit to deceive someone by the use of language.
Isaiah 28
11 Yes, with stammering lips and in a strange language he will speak to this people
12 to whom he said: This is the resting place, give rest to the weary; Here is repose-- but they would not listen.
St Paul quoted this passage in 1 Cor 14
1 Cor 14
20 Brothers, stop being childish in your thinking. In respect to evil be like infants, but in your thinking be mature.
21 It is written in the law: **âBy people speaking strange tongues and by the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, and even so they will not listen to me, says the Lord.â **
22 Thus, tongues are a sign not for those who believe but for unbelievers, whereas prophecy is not for unbelievers but for those who believe.
Just some things to think about. Iâm not saying that all speaking in tongues is bad but I think much of what is going on today is not good. There is way too much emphasizes but on the speaking in tongues and not enough put on prophecy or the other gifts of the Holy Spirit.
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