Difference Between Eastern Churches on Papal Authority and Anglican Churches

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Pfaffenhoffen said:
SSPX, I did not know they were Catholics
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I always find it a little amusing how people who dislike the SSPX don’t say “They aren’t Catholics” but rather “I did not know they were Catholics”. But maybe that’s just me.
 
Peter_J said:
Try not to get too hung up on compass directions. What it comes down to is that Catholics believe that Mary was immaculately conceived, Eastern Orthodox believe that she wasn’t. I couldn’t say whether the other eastern churches, such as the Oriental Orthodox and the ACoE, do or not.
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It seems that there has been a misunderstanding. I was actually asking how Eastern Catholics–“Orthodox in communion with Rome”–reconcile the immaculate conception with their theology.

Edit: I just saw this thread where all interested parties can continue on the immaculate conception tangent.
 
Peter_J said:
Better be careful with that particular insult, Pfaffenhoffen. Remember that some Catholics are Byzantine too.
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Thanks for the correction.
Was that an insult?
In a short time, to say the a woman is different from a man is an insult…
 
Nine_Two said:
See, you seem to be crossing the line of forcing, and stating an opinion.

You’ve been saying how similar we are, and now, when I’ve admitted as much, only stating that there are real differences, you treat it as though I’ve been saying we are completely different.

My position has been, this whole thread, that while we are similar, that doesn’t mean there aren’t issues and differences.

I find your stereotyping “byzantines” to be somewhat offensive.

I mean aren’t you Catholics always on about how different you are than Anglicans? Why the double standards?
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Boy, I apologize.
With so many people around, one gets confused.
OK, do you think stereotyps are offensive? That germans are too organized, that italian like il dolce far niente, that spanish like la siesta, that English (well english do not mind, there is no better people to laugh at themselves than the British…)

Let me state my position: I Love EO, I find that sometimes they fight for little things (one awful example is what happens in the St Sepulchre Cathedral in Israel where everybody gets punching inside the Cathedral for petty reasons.
I asked to be married according to the Orthodox Rite of the Catholic Church but the permit did not come on time…

I think that we must look at what unites us, in a world so divided.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
Let me state my position: I Love EO, I find that sometimes they fight for little things (one awful example is what happens in the St Sepulchre Cathedral in Israel where everybody gets punching inside the Cathedral for petty reasons.
I asked to be married according to the Orthodox Rite of the Catholic Church but the permit did not come on time…
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:confused:
 
Peter_J said:
I always find it a little amusing how people who dislike the SSPX don’t say “They aren’t Catholics” but rather “I did not know they were Catholics”. But maybe that’s just me.
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Before the battle you count the guns.
The General is the Pope.
If you are with the Pope, you are Catholic, if you are not, you are not Catholic.
Sincerely I do not know whether the SSPX is with the Pope.
Maybe is not an answer.
Only Yes or No.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
If you make questions, I am glad to answer…

😊 👍
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It wasn’t a question exactly, I was pointing out that your statement “I asked to be married according to the Orthodox Rite of the Catholic Church” is nonsense, on 2 scores in fact. For one, Orthodoxy isn’t a Rite; and for another, Rome (and you and me) aren’t in full communion with Orthodoxy.

(Were you basing “Orthodox Rite” off of the term “Anglican Use”?)
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
Before the battle you count the guns.
The General is the Pope.
If you are with the Pope, you are Catholic, if you are not, you are not Catholic.
Sincerely I do not know whether the SSPX is with the Pope.
Maybe is not an answer.
Only Yes or No.
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Sounds like you’re working on an allegorical novel. Good luck with that, but I’m not promising that I’ll buy a copy.
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
Beautiful photo…

Totally wrong.
There is only one hurdle: the Pope.
All others were already in the Eastern Theology, including the Immaculate Conception, call it this way or the other.
We are hand-holding.
Please, do not be stubborn. You, the Constantinople People are famous for sticking to little points and do not move from there. Remember the iconoclasts. Thousands died for…nothing…
Remember: there is NOTHING between you and us.
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I do not understand “Constantinople People” I am Antiochian and the EP has no authority over our Jusirdiction. He is the “first among equals” as was the Bishop of Rome before the schism.

also there is a large difference in emphasis between the two churches , Latins are more legalistic IMO and Orthodox put emphasis on Theosis(continual improvement sort of like the six sigma for the spiritual world). I know of what I speak as I was born and educated a Roman Catholic.
 
Peter_J said:
It wasn’t a question exactly, I was pointing out that your statement “I asked to be married according to the Orthodox Rite of the Catholic Church” is nonsense, on 2 scores in fact. For one, Orthodoxy isn’t a Rite; and for another, Rome (and you and me) aren’t in full communion with Orthodoxy.

(Were you basing “Orthodox Rite” off of the term “Anglican Use”?)
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You are right.
I wanted to say: “I asked to marry according to the Eastern Rite of the Catholic Church”, but as I hate the word Eastern (that could go up to China!) unconsciously I used Orthodox for these rites are similar to our Eastern.
ewtn.com/expert/answers/catholic_rites_and_churches.htm
 
Peter_J said:
Sounds like you’re working on an allegorical novel. Good luck with that, but I’m not promising that I’ll buy a copy.
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No problem. I will offer you one copy.
What is the problem? You are a traditionalist.
If you want to state your position, I am glad to hear it.
Or to buy a copy…😉
 
Rdunbar123 said:
I do not understand “Constantinople People” I am Antiochian and the EP has no authority over our Jusirdiction. He is the “first among equals” as was the Bishop of Rome before the schism.

also there is a large difference in emphasis between the two churches , Latins are more legalistic IMO and Orthodox put emphasis on Theosis(continual improvement sort of like the six sigma for the spiritual world). I know of what I speak as I was born and educated a Roman Catholic.
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The Pope was never the first among equals before the schism. Listen: if it was so, there would not be schism. There was schism for he had authority over the whole Church. And I tell you: the schism was done for the lack of patience of the papal envoy who behaved badly…

OK, see what I said: you look for the differences between East and West when what I emphasize is that what unites us is MUCH MORE than what divides us !!!
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
The Pope was never the first among equals before the schism. Listen: if it was so, there would not be schism. There was schism for he had authority over the whole Church. And I tell you: the schism was done for the lack of patience of the papal envoy who behaved badly…
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That argument is not very sound. Schism can (and still does) occur without a universal primate.
OK, see what I said: you look for the differences between East and West when what I emphasize is that what unites us is MUCH MORE than what divides us !!!
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Talking about what we share in common won’t bring us into communion; resolving what divides us will. Again, I must wonder why is there such a strange double-standard when it comes to the Orthodox. Are you normally this enthusiastic about searching for what the Catholics and Lutherans or the Catholics and Calvinists share in common as you are with searching for what the Catholics and the Orthodox share in common? If not, why do you get upset with us for not showing the same enthusiasm for finding common ground with the Catholics?
 
Pfaffenhoffen said:
OK, see what I said: you look for the differences between East and West when what I emphasize is that what unites us is MUCH MORE than what divides us !!!
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The fact that you have to pontificate that to them doesn’t seem like a very good sign.
 
Nine_Two said:
Some of the arguments are small, I agree, and we certainly do agree on considerably more than we disagree on, I agree. But there are real differences there. Additionally there is a fine line between asserting your opinion on something, and forcing it on others, you may mean to do the first, but it can come off as the second.

My only issue with the Immaculate Conception is that it is held dogmatically. I really don’t care whether or not people actually believe it, and I don’t think it contributes to salvation one way or another.

On a lighter note, I just finished doing some research for a major purchase I’ll be making soon, and as part of that research I was reading forums on the subject. It was quite nice to see people having fights that I have no dog in. 😛
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So, your issue is with Authority.
If I say 2+2=4 it is all right.
If I say dogmatically that 2+2=4, there is a problem.

Now suppose that, when on Earth, Jesus Christ proclaimed Mary, the Immaculate Conception. Did you have problems with that’

I saw elsewhere the discussion between Christotokos and Theotokos, as if there was any difference…
 
Cavaradossi said:
That argument is not very sound. Schism can (and still does) occur without a universal primate.

Talking about what we share in common won’t bring us into communion; resolving what divides us will. Again, I must wonder why is there such a strange double-standard when it comes to the Orthodox. Are you normally this enthusiastic about searching for what the Catholics and Lutherans or the Catholics and Calvinists share in common as you are with searching for what the Catholics and the Orthodox share in common? If not, why do you get upset with us for not showing the same enthusiasm for finding common ground with the Catholics?
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I have a right to be upset for you not showing the same enthusiasm. Why? Because you much much closer to us than the Protestant, did not you realize that. The only, I repeat, the ONLY thing that divides us is the Pope !!

An you have the right not to have any enthusiasm.

This is a free world, created free by God…
 
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