Differences between Reformed and Roman Catholicism

[TomaszA]

The early Church Fathers had a mixed bag of beliefs. Some or many support the Roman Catholic position, and some did not support the Roman Catholic position. Therefore, which work of the Church Fathers are considered Sacred Tradition, and which work is considered inferior or heretcial. They come from the same sources of church history or even the same early church fathers.

This is an interesting question but the same question can be asked of the Bible canon. Historically speaking there wasn’t a uniform consensus of what books constitute the bible until the Church had a council, and under the guidance of the Holy spirit, infallibly declared what the Bible actually is.

I would say the issue is the same with sacred tradition. Just like certain books of the bible were largely held to be canonical by many Christians I’m sure much of sacred tradition was already regarded as inspired by most Christians. I think one of the greatest examples is the belief in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, it’s universally held by all apostolic founded churches. Likewise infant baptism, practiced by all apostolic churches. Yet protestants reject even these fundamental aspects of inspired sacred tradition. So when it comes to cases where certain tradition is questionable, like in the case of the bible canon, I think it necessitates an infallible teaching authority established by Christ and protected by the Holy Ghost. Such a teaching authority can establish with absolute certainty via Divine assistance what is part of sacred tradition.

God bless,
Tomasz

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

LOL…LDS history books are quite different than yours. They actually have history written on gold plates. That is why I reject history exegesis. Church history is very important to study, but Scripture is more trustworthy than catholic history books. I prefer Protestant history books myself. I don’t think God protected our history books quite like His Holy Scriptures, do you?

I believe scriptures to be God breathed, or if you prefer God inspired. Why do you believe scriptures to be the inspired word of God, yet God didn’t inspire scriptures to state all one needed was the Bible alone? Why did God inspire it be written that the Church was the pillar and foundation of truth, instead of the Bible? How is it you think God could protect the Bible yet lacked the power to protect His Church?

1Ti 3:15

(DRB) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

(Etheridge) but if I should delay, that thou mayest know how to converse in the house of Aloha, which is the church of Aloha the Living, the column and foundation of the truth.

(IGNT+) εαν δε BUT IF βραδυνω I SHOULD DELAY, ινα THAT ειδης THOU MAYEST KNOW πως HOW δει IT BEHOOVES “ONE” εν IN “THE” οικω HOUSE θεου OF GOD αναστρεφεσθαι TO CONDUCT ONESELF, ητις WHICH εστιν IS εκκλησια “THE” ASSEMBLY θεου OF GOD “THE” ζωντος LIVING, στυλος PILLAR και AND εδραιωμα BASE της OF THE αληθειας TRUTH.

(KJV+) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

(KJVA) But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

(Murdock) but if I should delay, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to conduct thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God. The pillar and the foundation of the truth,

(NJB) but in case I should be delayed, I want you to know how people ought to behave in God’s household – that is, in the Church of the living God, pillar and support of the truth.

(RSV) if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

(Vulgate) si autem tardavero ut scias quomodo oporteat te in domo Dei conversari quae est ecclesia Dei vivi columna et firmamentum veritatis

You know Reformed, I’ve noticed in times that you have no answer you persist on comparing Catholicism to Mormonism, yet Joseph Smith came from an evangelical backround. Please stop the ad hominem wording, seemingly designed to inflame Catholics.

As for Protestant history books, why do you only trust books written 1500 years after the death and resurrection of Christ over writings of Christians who learned and practiced Christianity with the Apostles? Do you somehow believe God protects those writings?

 

[ralphinal]

I only want to make sure our theological positions are properly stated. I am not trying to get us to agree on our diffferences, but simply I am try to define our differences. It’s a difficult task that have not really changed in 500 years. I really see that the essential issues are the same as what occured at the Protestant Reformation.

Most of the theological positions that this attributes to the Catholic Church are wrong. To state them as such is either poor scholarship or dishonest.

 

[guanophore]

Do you have a hard time determing what actually consists of Sacred Tradition as compared to just plain tradition?

No. Sacred Tradition is part of the once for all Divine Deposit of Faith delivered once and for all to the saints. It is what the NT was derived from and has survived since that time

The rest are just customs.

The early Church Fathers had a mixed bag of beliefs. Some or many support the Roman Catholic position, and some did not support the Roman Catholic position. Therefore, which work of the Church Fathers are considered Sacred Tradition, and which work is considered inferior or heretcial. They come from the same sources of church history or even the same early church fathers.

We see the Sacred Tradititions threaded through the early fathers. To the extend that they accruately represented the Apostolic Teaching, they transmit the infallible Sacred Tradtition.

The Bible teaches that no Scripture can be received and understood with effectual change to the inner man apart from the work of God the Holy Spirit through illiumination. The Bible is a closed book for those without the Spirit of God (1 Cor 2). Why did Jesus speak in parables according to the Scriptures. What is concealed has to be revealed by the Spirt who is God. The Bible is a book of spiritual revelation to our dark spiritual state. However, only those who have the Spirit can understand the things of God (1 Cor 2, Rom 8).

Do you realize that Catholics see a perfect continuity in what you posted here,a nd the post to which you were responding? I doubt that you do…

LOL…LDS history books are quite different than yours. They actually have history written on gold plates. That is why I reject history exegesis. Church history is very important to study, but Scripture is more trustworthy than catholic history books. I prefer Protestant history books myself. I don’t think God protected our history books quite like His Holy Scriptures, do you?

A serious student of history would read them both. What you are saying is that you are purposely clinging to your myopic perspective. Perhaps, intuitively, you realize that if you really read the Catholic perspective, you would find out that your view is irrationally biased?

 

[po18guy]

These are all cut and paste from an anti-Catholic site. Nice trick. Also, when cutting and pasting in the future, please find anti-Catholic sites that do not use British spelling…

The difference between us is that you are using decapitated scripture - that which has been torn away from the Church that God alone designated as its protector.

 

[Reformed]

Do you agree with these statements?

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome

One
The Roman Catholic Church believes that its traditions and teaching are as authoritative as Scripture. The Reformed value tradition, but accept the Bible alone as their authority, and sole rule of faith and practice.

Two
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Pope, as successor of Peter and Bishop of Rome, is head of the visible Church. The Reformed believe that Christ alone is head of the Church and that no man may claim universal primacy over the people of God.

Three
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Bible cannot be properly understood apart from the official interpretation of Rome (the Magisterium). The Reformed believe that Christians have a responsibility to judge the truth of all teaching by the extent of its conformity to the teaching of the Bible as it has been commonly accepted with the help of responsible exegesis and the witness of the Spirit.

Four
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that we are justified by baptism and that justification must be supplemented and improved by works. The Reformed hold that the Bible teaches that justification is God’s declaration that a sinner is righteous in his sight, on the basis of faith in the finished work of Christ, apart from works. We are justified by faith alone. Baptism does not effect justification; it is the sign of it, as well as of the believer’s cleansing from sin and reception of new life in Christ.

Five
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Lord’s Supper is a re-offering of the sacrifice of Christ and that the bread and wine are actually changed into the body and blood of the Saviour. The Reformed hold that that in Scripture the Lord’s Supper is a fellowship meal that is to be kept by believers in remembrance of the finished work of Christ. The bread and wine are significant symbols to believers of Christ’s body and blood. At the Lord’s Supper, they enjoy communion with the risen Christ, who is present at the Table by his Spirit.

Six
The Roman Catholic Church regards its ministers as priests. They re-offer the sacrifice of Christ at the Mass and act as mediators between God and the faithful, taking Christ’s role. The Reformed teach that all Christians are priests, who offer a sacrifice of praise and worship to the Lord. Some, called to be teachers and pastors, are ministers of the Word. Their task is to give themselves to prayer, the preaching of the gospel, and to care for the flock.

Seven
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death the souls of departed believers who have not made sufficient satisfaction for their sins in their lifetime go to purgatory in order to do that prior to going to heaven. The living can affect how long the departed have to spend in purgatory by observing Mass, obtaining indulgences, and praying for them. The Reformed hold that purgatory is not taught in Scripture. They believe, in accord with Scripture, that at death the souls of believers will depart from the body to be with Christ in heaven, awaiting the resurrection to life, glory and immortality.

Eight
The Roman Catholic Church believes that Mary can be invoked as mediatrix with Christ and that the faithful should pray to her and show devotion to her. Rome also teaches that believers should pray for themselves and for the dead to the faithful departed whom the Pope has designated as saints. The Reformed honour Mary as the mother of our Lord and see her as an example of obedience and love to God. They maintain that there is only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, and that, despite the protestations of Rome, its teaching takes away from the sole mediatorship of Christ. Prayer and worship is to be offered to God through him alone.

Nine
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that there are seven sacraments and that these sacraments work ex opere operato, effectively conveying grace to those who receive them. For example, baptism regenerates and justifies, and participants in the Mass actually feed on the body and drink the blood of Christ. The Reformed find only two sacraments or ordinances in Scripture, baptism and the Lord’s Supper. These are means of grace that are only effective when received by faith.

Ten
The Roman Catholic Church regards herself as the one true Church through the apostolic succession of her bishops. Non-Roman Catholic Christians are regarded as ‘separated brethren’ who have schismatically divided the body of Christ. Reformed ministers are not truly ordained to the apostolic ministry. The Reformed define the Church not institutionally, but as a company of believing, godly people where the gospel is truly preached, baptism and the Lord’s Supper rightly administered and Church discipline graciously applied. The true apostolic succession consists not in the physical laying on of hands as understood by Rome, but in believing and preaching the gospel proclaimed by the apostles and recorded in Scripture.

---

Guy Davies is Joint-Pastor of Penknap Providence Church and Ebenezer Baptist Church in Wiltshire. This article appeared in the September/October issue of Protestant Truth.

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How about correcting all 10 points on the Catholic position above so I can understand what you actually believe as Roman Catholics? I can agree on the 10 points for the Reformed position.

 

[Plainsman]

LOL…LDS history books are quite different than yours. They actually have history written on gold plates. That is why I reject history exegesis. Church history is very important to study, but Scripture is more trustworthy than catholic history books. I prefer Protestant history books myself. I don’t think God protected our history books quite like His Holy Scriptures, do you?

I assume you also know that the “Golden Tablets” no longer exist (assuming they ever did) and haven’t for over 150 years and are therefore of no use as supporting evidence. I’m curious - what “Protestant” history books exist that go back before 1517 A.D.? Catholic history books go back to the 1st and 2nd centuries A.D. As a matter of fact, the New Testament is a Catholic history book.

My friend - your arguments all sound like the same things I hear from any other non-Catholic Christians. God bless you, but quit fighting facts and come on back home to the Mother Church.

 

[Ag_not]

How about correcting all 10 points on the Catholic position above so I can understand what you actually believe as Roman Catholics? I can agree on the 10 points for the Reformed position.

Why? You are singularly incapable of understanding not only the catholic position, but ANYTHING that does not conform, in its entirity, to your singular reformed view of the world.
You are also NOT interested in anything that catholics have to say. ALL you are interested in is trying to make yourself look and feel theologically cool.
Your arguments have been refuted time and time again. Over and over. In thread after thread. Post after post. And when you are cornered, you just run off and start another thread, with the same old cut and past of endless strips of scrpiture and repetative questions, Over and Over. And then you start all over again.

I apologise to you. I miss judged you. I thought you may have been interesting to read. I was wrong.

 

[RobGentner]

I partook in communion last Sunday. Some Reformed Churches actually partake in communion every Sunday.

Poor Reformed! You misunderstood! Soutane was talking about the Real Eucharist. That is when a priest of the real church speaks the sacred words that Jesus taught his apostles so we could be transported simultaneously at the foot of the cross and also to the last supper. We eat his body and drink His blood in order to obtain eternal in fulfillment of His Commandment. We are at the bottom of the cross as he actually dies for our sins and the sins of the whole world! This is no act, no re-creation, no re-presentation of the sacrifice. This is the Real deal! This is our salvation! Praise God!

I have eaten imitation Ice Cream so I can understand how you could have been fooled. Please don’t feel bad! You can still be saved. The Catholic church always has room for true believers.Remember if it isn’t real ancient like let’s say 2000 year old, it is only an imitation!

How about correcting all 10 points on the Catholic position above so I can understand what you actually believe as Roman Catholics? I can agree on the 10 points for the Reformed position.

Actually some Reformed brethren in some of the 33,000 protestant denominations would agree with all 20 posiitions. and many would disagree with all 20 positions and Every Catholics should agree with parts of all 10 and disagree with parts of all 10. Catholic ones and disagree with all 10 Reformed ones because they aren’t believed by all reformed denominations.
How could that be? Because it was just his opinion. As was your answers! Exactly who are you two to say that Reformed Christians (Cute concept) don’t believe in the real presence? Some do! Even thought they don’t have it, they think they do. And the other things, many believe some just like us Catholics. We agree on many things. it depends when their leaders foolishly left the real church, exactly how much they accept or reject.

There are 30 Million Catholics in the USA . We are lucky! Do you really want to know what we believe? Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. The Pope has it so we can find out what our church teaches. Is that cool or what? No Sola Scriptura here! We got the whole deal! Thank God, for God and His wisdom! Our CCC is at: vatican.va/archive/catechism/ccc_toc.htm We don’t follow some article from a protestant minister in a publication called: Protestant Truth.

Different subject, Have you ever hear of a oximoron? Do Protestant also believe in them? Could you spot one if some one posted one? An Intellegent Prostant should have no problem with that, I would think. After all Reformed Beliefs must show some don’t they? Our Catholic scriptures don’t. Anyway, I wandered from the OP. The difference is very much like night and day. People at night are blinded. During the day they can see! Come join the CC in the light of Gods real truths!

You know I love you guys!

 

[RobGentner]

I assume you also know that the “Golden Tablets” no longer exist (assuming they ever did) and haven’t for over 150 years and are therefore of no use as supporting evidence. I’m curious - what “Protestant” history books exist that go back before 1517 A.D.? Catholic history books go back to the 1st and 2nd centuries A.D. As a matter of fact, the New Testament is a Catholic history book.

My friend - your arguments all sound like the same things I hear from any other non-Catholic Christians. God bless you, but quit fighting facts and come on back home to the Mother Church.

Hi Plainsman, :tiphat:
Wasn’t it the magic glasses that got broken so they didn’t see the golden tablets anymore? Or am I thinking of another madeup religion? Some people believe in even stranger things like: “Sola Scriptura:” This says the Bible is the sole authority for all Christian beliefs and practices. They think it is written some where in the bible I guess? Well it would have to be wouldn’t it?
Some cults and Protestants denominations believe in “Sola Gratia:” One is saved through grace alone, given to the believer by God directly.! That is a nice concept, wrong because it leaves out the sacraments Jesus left us in order to and retain and receive God’s grace. Plus free will to reject His Grace, like we all know who!
The really funny one is: Sola Fide:" Salvation by the individual’s faith alone. Hahahaha:dancing: ! Get to heaven by only having to trust in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. I like this one! You can actually do any kind of evil things you want but you don’t have to live a good christian life. You just believe Jesus Christ is Lord and Savior. :hypno: That is awesome! :whacky:

 

[Thing]

reformed:

The Bible teaches that no Scripture can be received and understood with effectual change to the inner man apart from the work of God the Holy Spirit through illiumination. The Bible is a closed book for those without the Spirit of God (1 Cor 2). Why did Jesus speak in parables according to the Scriptures. What is concealed has to be revealed by the Spirt who is God. The Bible is a book of spiritual revelation to our dark spiritual state. However, only those who have the Spirit can understand the things of God (1 Cor 2, Rom 8).

Actually the Holy Scriptures reveal something different;
Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip, saying: Arise, go towards the south, to the way that goeth down from Jerusalem into Gaza: this is desert. 27 And rising up, he went. And behold a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch, of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge over all her treasures, had come to Jerusalem to adore. 28 And he was returning, sitting in this chariot, and reading Isaias the prophet. 29 And the Spirit said to Philip: Go near, and join thyself to this chariot. 30 And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest?

31 Who said: And how can I, unless some man show me?

Reformed:

Do you agree with these statements?

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome

One
The Roman Catholic Church believes that its traditions and teaching are as authoritative as Scripture. The Reformed value tradition, but accept the Bible alone as their authority, and sole rule of faith and practice.
The Catholic Church is the Apostolic Church; as the Apostles had their Teaching Authority from Christ so also do the Apostles descendants in the Apostolic Church have their Teaching Authority from Christ.
As the Apostles taught the embryonic Church primarily by preaching to it and also by supplimenting their preaching with a very few letters to the Church, the Church, in turn, preserved from the beginning everything the Apostles taught, whether by word or by letter.
And, considering that the Apostles lived their ministry of preaching orally to the Church from 33AD to 60, 70, or 80 AD, I must consider that what the Apostles taught the Church through preaching over the course of 50 [fifty] years is greater in volume than what they wrote in letters which may have taken all of one day to compose in total.
=>The Sacred Tradition the Apostles preached is equally authoritive as the Sacred Tradition they committed to papyrus.

Two
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Pope, as successor of Peter and Bishop of Rome, is head of the visible Church. The Reformed believe that Christ alone is head of the Church and that no man may claim universal primacy over the people of God.

The Pope is head of the Church as the Apostles were head of the Church.
You refuse to obey the Apostles in the first century, or do you obey them.
Christ appointed them to preach and lead and feed His sheep, but, your argument is to reject the Aostles as being mere men as if Christ gave them no Authority to lead you in His name.

For the ‘reformed’ every man is essentially his own Pope with Christ as his head leading him. But you, possibly, hate the idea of the Pope leading you with Christ as his head.

Three
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Bible cannot be properly understood apart from the official interpretation of Rome (the Magisterium). The Reformed believe that Christians have a responsibility to judge the truth of all teaching by the extent of its conformity to the teaching of the Bible as it has been commonly accepted with the help of responsible exegesis and the witness of the Spirit.

The purpose of Christ choosing twelve men to ‘preach to all nations’ is precisely because of humanity’s ideosyncratic desire to understand things.
Christ did not write a book, because as the smart eunuch said ‘how can I understand what I read unless some man show me?’. Christ chose men to explain to you what had been written about Him in the Old Testament Scriptures.
It is the Apostles explaination of their understanding of Holy Scriptures that is contained and preserved in the Holy Traditions. That is why ‘the official interpretation of Rome’ is always the correct interpretation as it was from the beginning in the days of St. Philip.

---

Guy Davies is Joint-Pastor of Penknap Providence Church and Ebenezer Baptist Church in Wiltshire. This article appeared in the September/October issue of Protestant Truth.

The Banner of Truth Trust
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Edinburgh EH12 6EL
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How about correcting all 10 points on the Catholic position above so I can understand what you actually believe as Roman Catholics? I can agree on the 10 points for the Reformed position.

 

[Thing]

Reformed:

Do you agree with these statements?

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome

Four
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that we are justified by baptism and that justification must be supplemented and improved by works. The Reformed hold that the Bible teaches that justification is God’s declaration that a sinner is righteous in his sight, on the basis of faith in the finished work of Christ, apart from works. We are justified by faith alone. Baptism does not effect justification; it is the sign of it, as well as of the believer’s cleansing from sin and reception of new life in Christ.

To believe the reformed position we must accept that infants, the innocently ignorant and mentally incapable are all damned to hell forever because they cannot have faith. Worse still God must have known they were going to hell as He made them and placed them in their situations.

The Catholic Church teaches as Christ teaches, that you cannot enter the kingdom of God unless you are baptised. Infants, the innocently ignorant and the mentally incapable are not excluded and can be baptised into the Kingdom.

Five
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Lord’s Supper is a re-offering of the sacrifice of Christ and that the bread and wine are actually changed into the body and blood of the Saviour. The Reformed hold that that in Scripture the Lord’s Supper is a fellowship meal that is to be kept by believers in remembrance of the finished work of Christ. The bread and wine are significant symbols to believers of Christ’s body and blood. At the Lord’s Supper, they enjoy communion with the risen Christ, who is present at the Table by his Spirit.

The Roman Catholic Church teaches that the Lord’s Supper is a re-presentation of the sacrifice of Christ.
Christs sacrifice ‘saves’ you today in 2008 as His sacrifice ‘saved’ those who in Abrahams comfort were waiting since the days of Noah.
His sacrifice transcends time and His sacrifice is the same sacrifice for every person in every time in every place. The Eucharistic sacrifice is His transcendant sacrifice for us, the same sacrifice as at Calvary, a re-presentation, [which means, the same, sacrifice].

Six
The Roman Catholic Church regards its ministers as priests. They re-offer the sacrifice of Christ at the Mass and act as mediators between God and the faithful, taking Christ’s role. The Reformed teach that all Christians are priests, who offer a sacrifice of praise and worship to the Lord. Some, called to be teachers and pastors, are ministers of the Word. Their task is to give themselves to prayer, the preaching of the gospel, and to care for the flock.
Catholicism teaches we are; ‘…a chosen generation, a kingly priesthood, a holy nation, a purchased people: that you may declare his virtues, who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:’

In Apostolic times only the Bishop, the successor, of the Apostles was allowed to offer the sacrifice of the Mass. The authority of the Church through the ordination of Catholic priests passes that power to them.
But at no time in Christian history did a layperson have the power or authority to offer Mass or confect the eucharist.
When the priest or Bishop says the words ‘This is My Body…’ etc. he is speaking ‘in persona Christi’, the priest acts in the person of Christ, or you could say, the Person of Christ is acting through the actions and the pronouncing of the words of the sacramental rite in the eucharistic sacrifice.

---

Guy Davies is Joint-Pastor of Penknap Providence Church and Ebenezer Baptist Church in Wiltshire. This article appeared in the September/October issue of Protestant Truth.

The Banner of Truth Trust
3 Murrayfield Road,
Edinburgh EH12 6EL
U.K.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 337 7310
info@banneroftruth.co.uk P.O. Box 621, Carlisle,
Pennsylvania 17013,
U.S.A.
Tel: 717-249-5747
info@banneroftruth.org
© 2003 Banner of Truth. All rights reserved

How about correcting all 10 points on the Catholic position above so I can understand what you actually believe as Roman Catholics? I can agree on the 10 points for the Reformed position.

 

[Thing]

Reformed:

Do you agree with these statements?

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome

Seven
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death the souls of departed believers who have not made sufficient satisfaction for their sins in their lifetime go to purgatory in order to do that prior to going to heaven. The living can affect how long the departed have to spend in purgatory by observing Mass, obtaining indulgences, and praying for them. The Reformed hold that purgatory is not taught in Scripture. They believe, in accord with Scripture, that at death the souls of believers will depart from the body to be with Christ in heaven, awaiting the resurrection to life, glory and immortality.

The only question you need to ask yourself is; can sin enter heaven?

The only answer is; yes or no.
Anything else comes from the devil, as they say.

If no sin can enter heaven, then sin must be removed before entry to heaven.
This can be done in this world, while alive, or else it must be done in the ‘world to come’. It is generally accepted, though, that to live a continuously sinless life, while it should always be striven for, is, in reality, extremely difficult. But the hard fact remains that we cannot bring our sin into heaven with us.
Incidently, the Catholic Church does not teach that indulgences will lessen a departed souls time in purgatory, in merely says that it may lessen its time there, since purgatory is outside the juristiction of the Church. The Church does however say that indulgences for the living will reduce the souls time in purgatory.

Eight
The Roman Catholic Church believes that Mary can be invoked as mediatrix with Christ and that the faithful should pray to her and show devotion to her. Rome also teaches that believers should pray for themselves and for the dead to the faithful departed whom the Pope has designated as saints. The Reformed honour Mary as the mother of our Lord and see her as an example of obedience and love to God. They maintain that there is only one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, and that, despite the protestations of Rome, its teaching takes away from the sole mediatorship of Christ. Prayer and worship is to be offered to God through him alone.

Then Simon answering, said: Pray you for me to the Lord, that none of these things which you have spoken may come upon me.

Holy Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners…

Nine
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that there are seven sacraments and that these sacraments work ex opere operato, effectively conveying grace to those who receive them. For example, baptism regenerates and justifies, and participants in the Mass actually feed on the body and drink the blood of Christ. The Reformed find only two sacraments or ordinances in Scripture, baptism and the Lord’s Supper. These are means of grace that are only effective when received by faith.

Unless you are baptised you will not enter the Kingdom of God.

Unless you eat My flesh you will not have life in you.

How much easier it would have been just to say;

Unless you just have Faith alone you will not enter the Kingdom of God, or have life in you.

Catholicism, as always, does just what it says in the Book.

Eat My flesh - we eat His flesh, not bread, symbols, empty symbols, qualified symbols, symbols contingent on faith, etc., etc.

Be Baptised - we are baptised with water and the Holy Spirit with the words ‘in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost’ and with the material of water. Just as it says in the Book. Our Baptism does not depend on how we feel, how much we know [knowledge, as if that were an entry requirement].
See that you despise not one of these little ones: for I say to you, that their angels in heaven always see the face of my Father who is in heaven…Unless you be converted and become as little children you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
See, the Kingdom of Heaven is for little infants, who love and obey and trust.

---

Guy Davies is Joint-Pastor of Penknap Providence Church and Ebenezer Baptist Church in Wiltshire. This article appeared in the September/October issue of Protestant Truth.

The Banner of Truth Trust
3 Murrayfield Road,
Edinburgh EH12 6EL
U.K.
Tel: +44 (0) 131 337 7310
info@banneroftruth.co.uk P.O. Box 621, Carlisle,
Pennsylvania 17013,
U.S.A.
Tel: 717-249-5747
info@banneroftruth.org
© 2003 Banner of Truth. All rights reserved

How about correcting all 10 points on the Catholic position above so I can understand what you actually believe as Roman Catholics? I can agree on the 10 points for the Reformed position.

 

[Thing]

Reformed:

Do you agree with these statements?

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome

Ten
The Roman Catholic Church regards herself as the one true Church through the apostolic succession of her bishops. Non-Roman Catholic Christians are regarded as ‘separated brethren’ who have schismatically divided the body of Christ. Reformed ministers are not truly ordained to the apostolic ministry. The Reformed define the Church not institutionally, but as a company of believing, godly people where the gospel is truly preached, baptism and the Lord’s Supper rightly administered and Church discipline graciously applied. The true apostolic succession consists not in the physical laying on of hands as understood by Rome, but in believing and preaching the gospel proclaimed by the apostles and recorded in Scripture.

So you believe in the Church.
You believe Christ founded ‘One Church’ in 33AD.

History bears witness to the One Church existing from 33AD to the present.
So, where was your church prior to the reformation, if not in the Catholic Church.
The Catholic Church is the One Church and protestantism separated itself from the One Church at the reformation, so protestantism is no longer part of the One Church.
Within protestantism itself, protestantism recognizes heresies, these are doctrines or beliefs which, old or new, contradict some protestant denominations beliefs. In other words, some group of protestants separates and become heretics to the mainstream.
One Church, is not ‘Many Churches’, - even protestantism recognises this itself.
Protestantisms history is in the Catholic Church, and to the Catholic Church she must return or risk being judged by her own standards - a separated church being an heretical church at worst.

---

Guy Davies is Joint-Pastor of Penknap Providence Church and Ebenezer Baptist Church in Wiltshire. This article appeared in the September/October issue of Protestant Truth.

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How about correcting all 10 points on the Catholic position above so I can understand what you actually believe as Roman Catholics? I can agree on the 10 points for the Reformed position.

 

[benedictus2]

Do you agree with these statements?

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome

One
The Roman Catholic Church believes that its traditions and teaching are as authoritative as Scripture. The Reformed value tradition, but accept the Bible alone as their authority, and sole rule of faith and practice.

Questions:

1)Where in the Bible does it say that it is the **sole **authority?

1. Sole authority on what?

 

[ralphinal]

These statements have been corrected on this thread more than once. They have been corrected on this site many, many times. The information is easily available on line (CAtholic.com, EWTN.com for example) and in your local book store or library (CCC for example).

 

[benedictus2]

Do you agree with these statements?

Ten Differences between the Reformation and Rome
Three
The Roman Catholic Church believes that the Bible cannot be properly understood apart from the official interpretation of Rome (the Magisterium). The Reformed believe that Christians have a responsibility to judge the truth of all teaching by the extent of its conformity to the teaching of the Bible as it has been commonly accepted with the help of responsible exegesis and the witness of the Spirit. [/qute]

The Roman Catholic Church does **not **teach that the Bible cannot be properly understood apart from the official interpretation of the Magisterium.

So you follow the lies you get fed hook line and sinker do you?

Question:

The Lutherans and Anglicans commonly accept baptism.
The Calvinist commonly does not accept baptism

Both are supposedly guided by the witness of the Sprit.

Since the Spirit cannot be advocating both, which one of them is right?

 

[benedictus2]

Do you agree with these statements?

Four
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that we are justified by baptism and that justification must be supplemented and improved by works. The Reformed hold that the Bible teaches that justification is God’s declaration that a sinner is righteous in his sight, on the basis of faith in the finished work of Christ, apart from works. We are justified by faith alone. Baptism does not effect justification; it is the sign of it, as well as of the believer’s cleansing from sin and reception of new life in Christ.

1. Which verses in the Bible say "that we are justified by faith ALONE ?
2. How do you understand original sin and justification?

 

[benedictus2]

Do you agree with these statements?

Seven
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that after death the souls of departed believers who have not made sufficient satisfaction for their sins in their lifetime go to purgatory in order to do that prior to going to heaven. The living can affect how long the departed have to spend in purgatory by observing Mass, obtaining indulgences, and praying for them. The Reformed hold that purgatory is not taught in Scripture. They believe, in accord with Scripture, that at death the souls of believers will depart from the body to be with Christ in heaven, awaiting the resurrection to life, glory and immortality.

Can a man who has confessed Jesus as Saviour, commited murder just before death and did not repent go to heaven?

Will a man who cheated on his income tax go straight to hell?

Are all sins fatal?

 

[benedictus2]

Eight
The Reformed honour Mary as the mother of our Lord and see her as an example of obedience and love to God.

How do you honour Mary?

Do you believe that she is Theotokos, God-bearer, Mother of God?

Ten
The Roman Catholic Church regards herself as the one true Church through the apostolic succession of her bishops. Non-Roman Catholic Christians are regarded as ‘separated brethren’ who have schismatically divided the body of Christ. Reformed ministers are not truly ordained to the apostolic ministry. The Reformed define the Church not institutionally, but as a company of believing, godly people where the gospel is truly preached, baptism and the Lord’s Supper rightly administered and Church discipline graciously applied. The true apostolic succession consists not in the physical laying on of hands as understood by Rome, but in believing and preaching the gospel proclaimed by the apostles and recorded in Scripture.

Do you believe that Christ established a Church on earth when He said thou art Peter and upon this rock I will build my church?