This practice pictured did not start with Lifeteen, either. It was a liturgical abuse that predated Lifeteen found in a number of Novus Ordo Liturgies.
I don’t think any apology is necessary. The implications are judgmental.
It is true that emotonal expression, enthusiasm, exhuberance, etc. are very culturally influenced.
Let’s not go overboard in the other direction, shall we?
Yes, I agree.
Yes, it is not important how one looks on the outside, but the attitude of the heart. But it is equally judgemental to say that charismatic styles are “cheap thrills and novelties”. Granted, loud praise and joyful clapping does not commend itself to everyone. There is nothingn inherintely wrong with it, though.
Indeed not. The gifts are for the upbuilding of the Church, and service to the world. The Mass is not the appropriate venue for this. While there are some of the gifts that can successfully be incorporated into Liturgy, or be incorportated after it, the Mass is the source and summit of the worship life of the Church. We don’t come to Mass to evangelize anyone (though it could perhaps happen there). We come to meet Christ in His Holy Sacrifice.
It appears that you have confused the Catholic Charismatic Renewal with the absurd abuses of persons who are in communities that have been separated from the Apostolic Succession for 500 years. Of course there is no “overlap”.
No, it is not Catholic, and it is not a Mass. At the very least it might demonstrate abuses of God’s gifts, and at most, demonic activity.
Charismatics gather for prayer meetings outside of the Mass. The gifts have no relevance to a persons “spirituality”. they are given to rank amateurs and novices in faith, and do not equate to maturity.
I have to agree with you. It is presuming to judge the state of another’s soul.
Why can’t you see a contradiction in what you say? The holy spirit was given to the Apostles at Pentecost, that had remained, as it was untill 1967 then suddenly it was “the right way all along” to act like maniacs. It’s protestant nonsense and it wants the Church to reform into it’s rubbish. I don’t care if it’s currently allowed by the Church, so is the sacrilege of taking communion in the hand. It isn’t right. End of.
No, I don’t see any contradiction. And the historical record indicates that the Charisms of Pentecost fell into disuse in response to the Montanist heresy. By the time of Augustine, their expression was so rare as to give him the impression they had ceased.
I think you are confused, Darran. I recommend you read the book of Acts, and I Cor. 12-14. It will become clear to you that “acting like maniacs” is nowhere to be found among spritiual gifts of the HS. It might also help to read some of the publications of the CCR, and the papal statements and instructions. They don’t contain anything about “acting like maniacs” either.
With regard to the “mania” I agree about the nonsense. Let’s don’t paint with too broad of a brush, though. These weird practices represent only a very small part of Protestants as a whole. Most Protestants would agree with us that such things are nonsense. I would go one futrher, and say that such things are evil in origin, and I think you are right on - Satan loves to counterfeit, and is always seeking to drag down the Church into rubbish.
I can appreciate your reverence for the Sacred Body of the Lord. However, taking communion in the hand is not a sacriledge. It was the practice of the early church, and can be done with as much reverence as taking it on the tongue. Saint Cyril of Jerusalem attests to this noble practice. Around 400 St. Cyril writes:
I am eager to hear your accounts of activities similar to those accounted in the Book of Acts over those two millenia.
I pray we never see the day.
The day is already here, At Trent. Many beautiful traditional Masses have been followed by the Sacrament of the Annointing of the Sick. This is an excellent combination.
"And for today’s service, we will be performing miracles. Expect to see the following:… "Tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit with which an individual can cooperate. A person must be willing to yield themselves and participate in the gift. The gifts of the HS do not function in a person who is unwilling to partake of them.
This attitude is not consistent with the Scripture or the teaching of the Chuch. The Church teaches that the HS distributes the gifts “wherever He wills”. Jesus teaches us that we are to expect in faith that the Father will “even more” give the HS to those who ask Him. Expectant faith is being open to whatever work God wishes to perform. Of coure, if he wishes to perform miracles, we are open to that.
Yes. What does that have to do with the insertion of Protestant services into our parishes ?
Not a thing. The Catholic Charismatic Renewal is not “protestant”.
No, what happened in 1967 was an open return to the proper way in which we go about our lives in the presence and power of the Holy Spirit. This was not emphasized and not in the church on and off for many years. It’s really a traditionalistic movement - going back to our ancient traditions. Nothing was missing, per se, merely the widespread use of the gifts God has given us. We had all our body parts, we simply weren’t using them from time to time. It’s certainly not Protestant, it’s Apostolic. It’s not rubbish, it’s grace.
I will say that the charismatic dimension is something essential in the Church, present from the beginning, but not always used and engaged in. It did not start in Protestant denominations, it started with the Apostles. I see the Protestant Pentecostal movement, in many ways, to be a sign of hope for Christian reunity, though I have many objections against them.