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therese1998
Guest
It is only a pathetic dismissal if it is used as an official excuse to do nothing. What is your evidence that the Church is doing nothing?
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therese1998
Guest
The problem with your accusation is that no cover up is known until it is known.
So…which companies have objectively covered up LESS rapes than the CC? Which have covered up more? Which have covered up fewer? Only God knows the answer to that. The world is EXPLODING with rapes/discrimination/coverups. Bill Cosby. The NEA. Individual CEO’s of private companies. Protestant churches, Hollywood. None of it is acceptable. All of it is rot and needs to be rooted out. But to assume that no other corporations are involved in coverups is naive at best and deliberately misleading/self-serving to a discriminatory anti-Catholic prejudice at worst. In fact, the John Jay report makes clear that access to private records of sexual coverup lawsuits shows that other corporations have issues as well…just not issues available for public consumption.
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Lee1
Guest
It is true that many other institutions have been found to harbour corruption but dirt on snow is more conspicuous than on grass.
It is also true that the good that the Catholic Church does worldwide does not sell newspapers but bad news does. People also seem to gain perverse pleasure from destruction it might be argued.
I was challenged recently about the current news and my reaction was that those responsible were not Catholics, because Catholics don’t do what they did, these people were pretending to be Catholics for reasons best known to themselves, whether for power or simply for employment or to gain access to vulnerable people.
I realise that my comments don’t solve the problems but surely safeguarding has been increased in recent times to help solve the current difficulties.
When the wolves come down from the hills the sheep gather around the shepherd. Let’s pray for all involved and trust that our Heavenly Father wills a swift resolution.
It is also true that the good that the Catholic Church does worldwide does not sell newspapers but bad news does. People also seem to gain perverse pleasure from destruction it might be argued.
I was challenged recently about the current news and my reaction was that those responsible were not Catholics, because Catholics don’t do what they did, these people were pretending to be Catholics for reasons best known to themselves, whether for power or simply for employment or to gain access to vulnerable people.
I realise that my comments don’t solve the problems but surely safeguarding has been increased in recent times to help solve the current difficulties.
When the wolves come down from the hills the sheep gather around the shepherd. Let’s pray for all involved and trust that our Heavenly Father wills a swift resolution.
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therese1998
Guest
If you are with humans, you will run a risk of sexual abuse. I wish I could say that you are safe if you are with so and so. But I can’t. Because any organization of humans, not matter how loose or strict, carries a percentage of predators. Because the Church draws her members from human society, there will be, statistically speaking, sexual abuse. This is a fact and it is SEPARATE from the issue of morality, coverups and responses.
The reason this fact is an important piece of context is that it provides information important to understanding where to focus reform and intervention. If sexual abuse rates within society were 1% and the church was, say, 10%, it would indicate the need for further information before reforms were put into place. For instance, in this scenario, is it a problem in teachings from the pulpit or current Catholic culture that encourages the sexualization of children? Is it a known haven for predators that encourages their protection? Is there some other factor that pre-disposes the Church to have an unusually high number of sexual predators? Since the incidence of abuse by priests is not significantly different from the general population, then we know that the issue is concupiscence and not Catholic culture or teachings. This, then, leads us in the direction of looking at contemporary culture for advice from the secular culture as to how to respond to the issues and how to put regulations into place to prevent such crimes to the highest potential possible.
Of separate consideration is the issue of how credible accusations were addressed in the past. If you look into abnormal psychology trends of the past 70 years or so, you will find that the idea that pedophiles could be “cured” by a variety of therapies and interventions, including “change of location”, was prevalent. All such misconduct, be it a teacher or a parent or a relative or a social worker or a pediatrician or whatever, were mostly handled in the same manner. If they DIDN"T handle it in this way, they were open to lawsuits from priests who were “unfairly and harshly treated/unemployed”. If they DID follow the opinion of the experts, they would be less liable, as it were. These circumstances of context provide an explanation for the actions of the Church and that is also why they are important.
But, do they provide an excuse? I personally don’t think so. I think the teachings of Christ about misconduct within the Church, the pervasiveness and persistence of concupiscence and the reality of evil should have been enough to guide their actions in a different direction. Additionally, in public settings, measure of how to prevent and respond to sexual misconduct have been in place for years now. The Church should have voluntarily made available this information at that time when we began to realize that changes of scenery and a sincere talking to weren’t preventing or curing anything. But they didn’t. For that, I believe they are culpable.
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therese1998
Guest
It is very attractive to distance ourselves from those who sin as much as we can. The fact of the matter, however, is that we all sin and “his sins are so much worse than mine” is a dangerous game to play, I think. Still, cannot argue that their actions, at least, were not Catholic.
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Roseeurekacross
Guest
church corruption in USA should be the heading. Because Australia has done a lot of work to stamp out sexual Child abuse. We took it out of the church’s hands and into proper criminal justice hands. And exposed the extent of it in society.
And yes, the devil will be laughing in his weetbix over the rhetoric and damage he has caused in this respect.
And yes, the devil will be laughing in his weetbix over the rhetoric and damage he has caused in this respect.
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Lee1
Guest
Yes, please forgive my inadequate explanation, I meant that their actions were not Catholic mainly. My response to someone who almost delighted in having ammunition to use against the Catholic Church was a knee jerk one frankly. And what I said was the first thing I thought. I probably would’ve said the same if someone had told me that they were vegetarian but ate a beef burger at the weekend, ie they obviously aren’t vegetarian then. Again probably a ridiculous comparison but you get my drift I hope.
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Lee1
Guest
Also, no, I wasn’t saying their sins are worse than mine, we are told not to judge are we not…
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therese1998
Guest
BTDT, bought the tshirt
It’s so easy to feel defensive, especially in the face of glee at someone else’s pain. Ive done the knee jerk thing about a thousand times. This week.Totally. Sorry if I came across as over corrective. It wasn’t my intention…more of a “type first, think after hitting send” reaction. Thanks for being gracious
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therese1998
Guest
I know. It’s awful. But I’m comforted knowing his end has already been determined.
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Lee1
Guest
This is such a thorny subject and I must say on reflection I struggle to come to terms with it. I totally empathise with any abused person, completely and they should receive the maximum help that they deserve.
I remember reading years ago that someone suggested that in difficult situations it may be useful to ask ourselves ‘what would Jesus say/do in these circumstances?” I remember for example that He pointed out that He sat and ate with sinners because they were in need not the righteous. I’m not sure how that would work in these instances because clearly anyone, priest or otherwise, who is confirmed as a threat to the vulnerable should be removed immediately from that demographic. I suppose they should be offered treatment if any is possible but not allowed back into their former positions.
I remember reading years ago that someone suggested that in difficult situations it may be useful to ask ourselves ‘what would Jesus say/do in these circumstances?” I remember for example that He pointed out that He sat and ate with sinners because they were in need not the righteous. I’m not sure how that would work in these instances because clearly anyone, priest or otherwise, who is confirmed as a threat to the vulnerable should be removed immediately from that demographic. I suppose they should be offered treatment if any is possible but not allowed back into their former positions.
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therese1998
Guest
Definitely
I definitely believe this too. Although there are predators who just “grew that way”, most predators were made that way by other predators. It is possible for one person to be both victim and victimizer. Just as it’s possible for one person to be both victim and bully.
If we want to truly love, we have to a. stop judging in the assumption that we know all there is to know about someone’s circumstances b. recognize and work to intervene in the circumstances that predispose youth to the abuse —> predator cycle and do the hard work of accepting that even abusers are to be loved. Easy to give love and empathy to a victim. Not so much for those who are cruel or abusive. But He didn’t say Love one another except for the mean ones. Them, you can ignore.
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Lee1
Guest
I’m so glad you agree, I was reticent to say it but you know evil withers under love. Our Lord told us to love our enemies and though this is personal I ask the Lord to bless mine. I believe that love really is a powerful benevolent force and yes it’s hard to love sometimes but it is our best defence I think. Sometimes when I can’t manage love I try agape, basically meaning wishing someone well, thinking charitably of them.
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therese1998
Guest
Indeed. So too does anger. A thing I need to remember, myself.
That’s wonderful. I luckily don’t have too many enemies. Just people I don’t particularly like or who don’t like me. Can’t think of anyone I “hate” enough to deny prayer for. It’s not in Jesus’ will for them; and that helps to remember, too.
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Bon_Croix
Guest
This thing revolves around the fact that the Church has it’s own judicial system with the Pope as the Chief Magistrate. Court proceedings are not made public. Criminal matters are dealt with internally.
This is what all this is about. These things existed before the state of PA was a gleam in someone’s eye.
This is what all this is about. These things existed before the state of PA was a gleam in someone’s eye.
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KevinK
Guest
Interesting that Jesus overthrew the tables of the money changers but these predators are allowed to run rampant within the Church.
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SeriousQuestion
Guest
Rampant is probably not the right word.
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KevinK
Guest
rampant
(especially of something unwelcome or unpleasant) flourishing or spreading unchecked.
(especially of something unwelcome or unpleasant) flourishing or spreading unchecked.
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ZMystiCat
Guest
You should explain how it is the right word rather than just quoting the dictionary definition. That way we can have a discussion rather than you just, possibly incorrectly, assuming ignorance.
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billsannie
Guest
Prayer and fasting are good, but I can’t see how they will help here. Priests and bishops have free will, which no amount of prayer and fasting can change. Concrete action needs to be taken, but Catholic laity have no real power to do that. Unfortunately, many of those who can solve the problem are part of the problem themselves.
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