DIL Cheating on my son, and he's ok with it!?

[BlueEyedLady]

Well, I feel for you, but honestly, if they have no faith, then I’m not surprised. What would be in place to make them believe that this is not something to play around with?

Oh please! What would make someone without religious faith think this is a bad idea? Well…I know that if it were me my concerns would include, but in no way be limited to:

-Risk of STDs
-Risk of pregnancy
-Concern for what it could be secretly doing to my husband mentally and emotionally
-Fear of emotions getting involved and falling for someone else
-Fear of a friend or family member (like say, a BIL) somehow finding out
-Fear that although my husband is a very skilled and generous lover, he could start to seem boring compared to falling into bed with different men all the time
-Fear that our sex life would suffer for the above reason and many others
-Concern that my husband would eventually want to try out extramarital activity himself

This isn’t really a case of “those quirky atheists, you never know what they’ll come up with next” and more a case of this being a very fringe and very risky lifestyle. My circle is extremely secular, and if someone announced that this is how they were living, it would still be very shocking.

That said, I’m not sure that there is anything the OP can or should do.

 

[StSentry83]

This could very well have been your son’s idea initially rather than DIL.

Maybe we should give DIL a medal?

 

[TinyTina]

I will keep my answer secular, since this couple does not recognize divine law.

Your son is “OK” with it? Well, whoop-dee-do, does he think this makes it all OK? The mother of your grandchildren is brazenly cheating with other men, all with the tolerance of your son. Of course your husband is livid. On behalf of the grandchildren, if nothing else, of course he is livid. Put yourself in the place of those children, when they are old enough to grasp this situation. Don’t you want to throw up? Literally, put yourself in their place. It literally makes one want to vomit. Either that, or it makes one think that it is normal for a human being in an erotic mood to show all the loyalty and self-control of a dog in heat.

If it were my son, I’d tell him just that. Then I’d talk to him about getting some counselling concerning why it is OK with him that his wife and the mother of his children is off being unfaithful with other men. The low esteem in which the two of them treat the relationship that produced their children is shocking and disgusting. (Actually, I’d probably have his father explain this to him.)

What son wants to think that his mother is off sleeping with other men, just for the pleasure of it? What kind of low regard for his father would it have to take for their son to be OK with it? What kind of promiscuity can these parents expect in their daughter when she is a teen, when her own mother has been flaunting her promiscuity in front of her husband’s family and the whole town for years? Is that what your son wants, for his daughter to go sleeping around on her boyfriends like your DIL is sleeping around on him? Is that what he wants to teach her is normal? Even boyfriends and girlfriends going steady expect more respect than that. When a husband does not expect it, something is extremely wrong with him.

I would not let him try to talk me out of that stance. Yes, her disgusting and demeaning treatment of your son is going to have repercussions on your relationship with her, just as surely as if he let her throw fits and throw dishes at him and beat on his body, instead of just assaulting his dignity and the dignity of their marriage. As for him, I would feel a lot of pity for him, not reassurance. It is a show of contempt not the least bit better than putting him down by calling him names and making contemptuous remarks about his character. And no, those things are not made “OK” just because she’d allow him to abuse her human dignity, too. His is not the attitude of a person with healthy self-regard.

We found out on Sunday morning. My son saw my DIL at the restaurant Saturday night, and he didn’t think she saw him. But my DIL left with the man shortly after, and as soon as she was out the door my older son called his brother to explain. I got the call from my younger son Sunday morning, and I confronted my older son Sunday night. He was very firm about it being none of our business and not being willing to discuss it outside of telling us that it was a mutual decision and she has never done anything he hasn’t fully supported. When I tried to mention what it might do to their kids, he just repeated that this was none of my business and he wasn’t willing to discuss it. My husband texted him Monday asking for a chance to talk with him without judgement, and my son called him to say that like he told me, it is none of our business and he is not willing to discuss their private life with us.

Someone else mentioned paternity. Fortunately both of their kids look exactly like my son, and in the short conversation we had Sunday night, he assured me that they were very happy together, their marriage was strong, and they’ve always been very careful about pregnancy and making sure that she isn’t with anyone else when they are trying to conceive. I guess that is the ONLY silver lining in all of this.

I really don’t think that he is going to allow me or my husband to say another word about this, on behalf of their kids or not. He’s made it clear that this is the way it is and that we are to treat his wife the way we always have. I’m not sure I can do that, and I’m not sure my husband is, or will ever be, willing to even try.

 

[maryjk]

Well, I feel for you, but honestly, if they have no faith, then I’m not surprised. What would be in place to make them believe that this is not something to play around with?

I’ve come to realize that many faithful people believe that atheists are evil, immoral people. That they are walking around the world with no direction, no sense of right and wrong. And it has honestly gotten pretty funny reading on this forum what these faithful people will come up with next.

I know a number of atheists. My own husband to name just one. And not one of them would think this scenario, of sleeping around, is okay. Not one.

In fact, if I look at marriages round me, that have failed. Everyone single one of them that had a spouse that cheated? The faithful, religious spouse is the one that strayed.

Remember, faith doesn’t make us perfect. Just forgiven.

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh please! What would make someone without religious faith think this is a bad idea? Well…I know that if it were me my concerns would include, but in no way be limited to:

-Risk of STDs
-Risk of pregnancy
-Concern for what it could be secretly doing to my husband mentally and emotionally
-Fear of emotions getting involved and falling for someone else
-Fear of a friend or family member (like say, a BIL) somehow finding out
-Fear that although my husband is a very skilled and generous lover, he could start to seem boring compared to falling into bed with different men all the time
-Fear that our sex life would suffer for the above reason and many others
-Concern that my husband would eventually want to try out extramarital activity himself

This isn’t really a case of “those quirky atheists, you never know what they’ll come up with next” and more a case of this being a very fringe and very risky lifestyle. My circle is extremely secular, and if someone announced that this is how they were living, it would still be very shocking.

That said, I’m not sure that there is anything the OP can or should do.

Exactly. This is not something that a normal person of good will would think is fine. Most people who are not religious still have an active moral sensibility and an understanding of the concept of fidelity being a matter of mutual care between spouses. (And, let us face it, there are people who believe in God who are quite willing to be moral anarchists, when they’re the ones out messing around. Denial and rationalization know no denomination.)

I have to agree that while I don’t think the correct response to this is a tacit, “oh, well, whatever you two think is best for your marriage,” it may be that there is no amount of stirring from outside the pot is going to change this twisted marital dynamic. I do not think a return to fidelity by the wife is very likely at all, and so if the husband decides to tolerate her infidelity for the sake of the children, that will be that. That does not mean that anyone owes her or her husband their tacit approval. Even the secular world has a few sexual taboos left, and most of the secular world recognizes this one.

 

[TinyTina]

This could very well have been your son’s idea initially rather than DIL.

I’m afraid that might be the case, but I have no way to know for sure.

It blows my mind that they have been together since their college freshman orientation and this is what they’re doing. I don’t even know how long it’s been going on, but he says that this is what works best for them!

 

[StSentry83]

I’ve come to realize that many faithful people believe that atheists are evil, immoral people. That they are walking around the world with no direction, no sense of right and wrong. And it has honestly gotten pretty funny reading on this forum what these faithful people will come up with next.

I know a number of atheists. My own husband to name just one. And not one of them would think this scenario, of sleeping around, is okay. Not one.

Oh stop being so silly. As Catholics, we are sooo much better as human beings than those atheists. Remember, growing up in the right home with the right parents pushing the right religion on you and never questioning what you were taught = being a good person.

 

[EasterJoy]

I’m afraid that might be the case, but I have no way to know for sure.

It blows my mind that they have been together since their college freshman orientation and this is what they’re doing. I don’t even know how long it’s been going on, but he says that this is what works best for them!

I guess at the very least I’d ask what this means it terms of the promiscuity and/or contempt of their parents he can expect their children to engage in as teenagers, and what kind of marriages they can be expected to have. He has to know that they will find out. He ought to know that they will probably find it far less acceptable than he does. Children who become angry or cynical because of something like this in their parents’ marriage are likely to act out in some ways very painful to themselves and those around them. Extreme disgust at the idea of your parents having or tolerating extramarital sex in their marriage is pretty much hard-wired and cross-cultural.

 

[EasterJoy]

Oh stop being so silly. As Catholics, we are sooo much better as human beings than those atheists. Remember, growing up in the right home with the right parents pushing the right religion on you and never questioning what you were taught = being a good person.

We are talking to a mother who cannot figure out why her son would find this remotely acceptable. Forgive her for considering that perhaps nothing she taught him about morals means a thing to him any more, and perhaps this has something to do with the religious unbelief he has embraced. True, this probably has nothing whatsoever to do with anything her son has learned from any other actual fellow atheists, but that doesn’t mean her son hasn’t tried to convince her that it does.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

-Risk of STDs
-Risk of pregnancy
-Concern for what it could be secretly doing to my husband mentally and emotionally
-Fear of emotions getting involved and falling for someone else
-Fear of a friend or family member (like say, a BIL) somehow finding out
-Fear that although my husband is a very skilled and generous lover, he could start to seem boring compared to falling into bed with different men all the time
-Fear that our sex life would suffer for the above reason and many others
-Concern that my husband would eventually want to try out extramarital activity himself

I’d like to add to this list of problems is concern for the husband’s reputation. What if his best friend, his rival, his boss, or a client of his had walked into the restaurant and saw his wife with another man instead of his brother? What would happen if word of the cuckold situation spread? How many people would really respect a man who knew that his wife was sleeping around and condoned (or worse, encouraged) it? Who would look down on him? Who might try to come onto the wife as some sort of power trip?

This could all just be so emasculating and humiliating for him.

 

[Xantippe]

I have to agree that while I don’t think the correct response to this is a tacit, “oh, well, whatever you two think is best for your marriage,” it may be that there is no amount of stirring from outside the pot is going to change this twisted marital dynamic. I do not think a return to fidelity by the wife is very likely at all, and so if the husband decides to tolerate her infidelity for the sake of the children, that will be that. That does not mean that anyone owes her or her husband their tacit approval. Even the secular world has a few sexual taboos left, and most of the secular world recognizes this one.

What exactly do you mean by “tacit approval”? If the grandparents are doing nothing to enable the extramarital relationships and aren’t doing stuff like inviting the latest boyfriend skiing with the whole family or inviting him to Thanksgiving dinner, there isn’t any tacit approval.

 

[JamalChristophr]

Perhaps the more critical problem here is really that neither son nor daughter in law believes in God. This is a huge thing really. But it seems awfully common these days. We all know of many devout Catholics whose children no longer practice the faith, if they even believe in God at all.

Seems like a situation that calls for God’s Grace to me if ever there was one.

 

[Indigo_Cardinal]

Oh please! What would make someone without religious faith think this is a bad idea? Well…I know that if it were me my concerns would include, but in no way be limited to:

-Risk of STDs
-Risk of pregnancy
-Concern for what it could be secretly doing to my husband mentally and emotionally
-Fear of emotions getting involved and falling for someone else
-Fear of a friend or family member (like say, a BIL) somehow finding out
-Fear that although my husband is a very skilled and generous lover, he could start to seem boring compared to falling into bed with different men all the time
-Fear that our sex life would suffer for the above reason and many others
-Concern that my husband would eventually want to try out extramarital activity himself

This isn’t really a case of “those quirky atheists, you never know what they’ll come up with next” and more a case of this being a very fringe and very risky lifestyle. My circle is extremely secular, and if someone announced that this is how they were living, it would still be very shocking.

That said, I’m not sure that there is anything the OP can or should do.

Agreed. There seems to be this thinking that the non-Judeo-Christians all think this is okay. I’ve known couples who have been in ‘open relationships’. I’ve never seen it ‘work out okay’, somebody always ends up hurt (and I saw two marriages fall apart as a result of the marital partners falling for their others.) And my crowd is very pagan. Some are very accepting of this, but a lot more just quietly shake their heads, and agree it isn’t going to end up well, but you can’t tell grown adults how to handle their personal lives. (And funnily enough, after the marriages fell apart, the people involved weren’t such big proponents of ‘open relationships’ anymore.)

It has nothing to do with having “God and morals”. It’s a simple understanding of human nature–we can be jealous creatures, and easily hurt, and when somebody else is getting attention that we feel we should have from our partner, then it doesn’t matter if you’re Christian, Buddhist, atheist, or pagan–you’re going to be hurt.

But as a number of people have pointed out…these are adults, and they have to make their own decision and deal with it. Having their folks lecture to them as if they were children (especially when it’s been made plain that they consider it to be none of the parents’ business) is just going to blow up in everybody’s face, big time, and drive a wedge in the family.

 

[EasterJoy]

What exactly do you mean by “tacit approval”? If the grandparents are doing nothing to enable the extramarital relationships and aren’t doing stuff like inviting the latest boyfriend skiing with the whole family or inviting him to Thanksgiving dinner, there isn’t any tacit approval.

I mean this: Put yourself in the OP’s place. Persuade your husband to let the matter drop, saying nothing and doing nothing differently than you have. You know you know, your son knows you know, everyone else knows and everyone else knows you know. Explain your choice to your grandchildren on the day when* they *come to know, and why your choice did not amount to tacit approval.

 

[Regina7]

Pray for St Joseph’s intercession.

I find it hard to believe that this was your son’s idea. Most men I know would feel emasculated to know their wives didn’t find them to be good enough. Perhaps he says he’s ok with it because he doesn’t want to lose her. Keep praying…

 

[Blue_Goose]

You are right to be concerned. From what I understand your son and his wife are in an open marriage and both are OK with it. Fine for them; but what about their children?

What your son and DIL must be made to understand is that this is about more than the two of them. Their children will eventually be impacted. Sooner or later the kids will find out via the school yard or neighborhood grapevine or internet social media. The pain and suffering that will be inflicted on the children (no matter the age) as a result of their parent’s behavior will be traumatic and emotionally damaging both in the short term and the long term. The kids will suffer ridicule, serious embarrassment, and shame. That could eventually lead to behavior issues, poor performance in school, personal relationship issues, substance abuse, relationship issues, etc.

There is no question that two souls are in jeopardy. Add to that your son and DIL could be putting their jobs on the line if an employer finds out about the infidelities. That would have an additional impact on the wellbeing of the children. In this era of social media there is no such thing as a secret. For example the DIL could end up in a secretly recorded nude picture or sex tape that ends up online, etc.

What you and your husband can do at this time is pray, consult with your parish priest, and then both you and your husband (once he has his emotions under control) talk with your son and DIL (in a non-confrontational manner) about how their choices can and will impact their children (your grandchildren) now and later in life.

Peace be with you.

 

[truetofaith]

Yes, my younger son told me. I know that a case could be made that he shouldn’t have, but he is a very young 23 year old and he was very upset and confused when he saw and heard this. He came to me more for advice and guidance than to tattle or gossip.

To answer the other questions: no, they are not practicing Catholics. They were not married in the church and they don’t believe in god.

And as for my husband, he’s livid. Though he’ll probably calm down, right now he’s saying that our DIL is no longer welcome with our family. I’m afraid his anger will push our son away and cause a rift in the family. And my son and DIL do have two kids. It breaks my heart to think of what this could do to them.

If they don’t believe in God…then anything goes!

 

[MKBorders]

Your son is seriously fooling himself.

I have a SIL who in her 1st marriage was allowed to be “passed around”. Oh how it made the marriage stronger. . .please!

What it did was normalize a non-exclusive arraingemnet. There was no boundry to cheating. There was nothing special in the relationship, not when everyone can join in the fun.

And here is the thing, your son may be OK with this but he is betting the farm every time he lets her have her “fling”. Because in reality he is betting she won’t find a better deal, betting she won’t find better sex, or a better listener, or a better companion with neater interests and hobbies. A better provider with more money for the kids, a better soul mate.

Sooner or later (in regards to my SIL it was sooner) she will find that better deal and when she does what will compell her to honor her marriage vows? The sanctity of the marriage. . . don’t think so, thats already been long thrown away.

One day your son will wake up, alone, with wife and kids gone and a man he barely knows with full access to half his property and a lifetime of poverty thanks to court ordered child support.

 

[EasterJoy]

If they don’t believe in God…then anything goes!

This is simply not true, or at least no more true than, “If they can convince themselves they’re doing it for God, they’ll let themselves do anything.”

St. Paul, who was surrounded by non-Christian and non-Jewish people of every stripe, both pagan and skeptic, wrote this:

For when the Gentiles who do not have the law by nature observe the prescriptions of the law, they are a law for themselves even though they do not have the law. They show that the demands of the law are written in their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even defend them on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge people’s hidden works through Christ Jesus. (Romans 2:14-16)

People who do not belong in a religion still believe it is wrong to cheat on your spouse. More to the point, they think it is demeaning to be cuckolded–that isn’t something you give permission to do, and especially not one-sided permission to do! “Go ahead, my love, have sex with whomever you want, whenever you want, of course I’m not enough for you, I’m good with that, I’m sure the kids will be good with that” is simply not the way normal people think or feel when they are married. If you are in love with a woman, you don’t want her bedding down with other guys!!! If your spouse talks you into tolerating this kind of arrangement, even though you aren’t doing the same thing, the general public, religious or not, thinks you have a screw loose, you have been conned into being a doormat, you have some kind of a quasi-prostitute quid pro quo going where you don’t want to give up the position you have gained by marrying this person, or else you have no self-esteem.

 

[jaimeleglise]

I agree with Regina7. He might be putting up with it for fear of losing her.
In addition to the many fine suggestions offered, I would pray a 54 day Rosary Novena and have some Masses said for “a special intention.”