Dinosaurs and Genesis

[triumphguy]

God doesn’t mess us about like that.

 

[rossum]

These dates are within the accepted range of carbon dating.

Of course they are. The equipment cannot measure outside its range, just as 20 pounds is within the range the kitchen scales can measure no matter how heavy I am.

All you are measuring is either the sensitivity of the equipment, or the amount of contamination present.

Here is a description of the anti-contamination measures taken to ensure a correct carbon dating of a human coprolite:

“These coprolite samples were all taken under very controlled conditions,” explained Eske Willerslev, from the University of Copenhagen, Denmark.

“When they were discovered in the sediments, people with full body suits, face masks and gloves took the coprolites out and put them into a sterile container.”

The samples were sent to independent labs to establish their status - their age and DNA content.

Source: Oregon stone tools enliven ‘earliest Americans’ debate

Were those precautions taken with your dinosaur fossils? If not, then the carbon dates are potentially unreliable due to contamination.

rossum

 

[empther]

Concerning Carbon-14 dating:

The finding is what is important. The fossils came in at 20-30000 years well withing the 60000 year limit. These findings have to be reconciled along with the soft tissue findings.

Easily done.

C-14 is constantly being “created” from N-14 by cosmic rays.
Some of these C-14’s will end up as methane, a molecule consisting of one carbon atom and four hydrogen atoms.
Can you keep methane out of rock, or fossils? No. (***)
Therefore,
a tiny trace of recently “created” C-14’s can overwhelm the virtually non-existent C-14’s still existing used by the dinosaurs.

---

(***) It’s like making diamonds. They can make large artificial diamonds, now, but they can’t make “white” or clear diamonds, because the slightest trace of nitrogen makes them yellow, and they can’t keep all the nitrogen out.

 

[triumphguy]

I just so happen to be examining a clump of marine fossils from the Devonian (375 million years ago) right now with my seven year old.

I personally believe that this increases his sense of wonder in the awesomeness of God.

 

[Della]

I’ve enjoyed reading the answers to this thread, good show lads!

One other point I will make is the utter irrelevance of time, something which is missed by a lot of believers and non-believers alike. Time is not fully understood by us, but it seems to operate as a dimension, a natural law. Even as the world had a beginning, so did time, like all natural laws, and so anything that came before time (i.e. God) would be timeless by its very nature. If God operates outside the confines of “time”, who can possibly say what the relevance of 65 million years or any other purported figure is?

I would personally favour a non-literal interpretation of Genesis, though it must be remembered that that does not licence its dismissal as a source of knowledge. We must just re-define the parameters though which we draw our interpretation of Genesis.

I would also be interested as to whether anyone can suggest a particular reason or purpose for the Dinosaurs, or were they just slightly larger lizards with no particularly amazing qualities? I always thought they had a very good PR department, the Dinosaurs.

We do seem to be fascinated by them, don’t we? I think we find them so interesting because they are probably as close to aliens we will ever get. To think that Earth was once the domain of creatures so unlike ourselves–that seems to grab our imaginations and shake our sense of entitlement, doesn’t it?

I believe God created them as a chain of life that started with the DNA strands he formulated at the beginning. It is interesting to note that Earth is so very special. That our planet has life at all is a real miracle considering all the factors working against it we can see right in our own solar system.

Dinosaurs were grand, wonderful creatures–giants that inhabited land and sea. They were the Titans of their day, but the world was ultimately meant for man. Dinosaurs were well on their way to extinction before the asteroid hit 65 million years ago. God had a time for them but their time was over.

They contributed to us by what they left behind and by stirring our imaginations, realizing that the great God who created us could have chosen another form besides us–one that was strong and fierce, sturdy and capable of becoming all that we are. But they didn’t. I find it charming to think that the birds I hear singing and scrabbling, the ones eating right outside my windows may be descended from some theropod species. I therefore think of them as dinosaurs God preserved so we could still have them with us.

God wanted to exalt the weak, not the strong. Think how fragile the human body is compared to almost any dinosaur species, and yet they died out and God made us in his image. It should teach us to realize our dependence on God for who we are, and for our destiny. At least, that’s how I see it.

 

[winc]

Carbon-14 dating is only good going back a few thousand years, after which the C-14 atoms are so few in number they can’t be differentiated from recently created C-14.
Yeah, well, bacteria are always moving around, you know, even in solid rock two miles down. Good luck trying to get an unadulterated sample!

all stuff and nonsense,so far - no millions of years ago - no dinosaurs or any other living thing millions of years ago only dust and ashes - see my topic Dust and Ashes - winc

 

[triumphguy]

Come on Winc.

Name sources, make your argument. Back it up.

 

[winc]

Come on Winc.

Name sources, make your argument. Back it up.

if there ever was millions of years ago then in a stretched out[scripture] and expanded and expanding universe[pseudo science] guess how close the sun would have been to the earth without even a water vapour canopy protection - dust and ashes - btw no big bang,see the exploding topic on this very forum The history of the Big Bang etc - Dinosaurs and Humans were created on the sixth day - if not in the queue when Adam named the animals then must have come after humans not before - winc

 

[johnnyjones]

And the most recent ash of Mt. St. Helens was carbon dated at a few million years ago. Very accurate.

 

[rossum]

And the most recent ash of Mt. St. Helens was carbon dated at a few million years ago. Very accurate.

Carbon dating is used for organic remains, not volcanic ash. Carbon dating can go back 30,000 to 70,000 years depending on the equipment used in the testing lab. It cannot measure millions of years.

You source is either grossly in error, or lying. Either way it is not a trustworthy source and you should carefully double check whatever else you see there.

A reference would be useful as well.

rossum

 

[johnnyjones]

Carbon dating is used for organic remains, not volcanic ash. Carbon dating can go back 30,000 to 70,000 years depending on the equipment used in the testing lab. It cannot measure millions of years.

You source is either grossly in error, or lying. Either way it is not a trustworthy source and you should carefully double check whatever else you see there.

A reference would be useful as well.

rossum

detectingdesign.com/carbon14.html

 

[triumphguy]

if there ever was millions of years ago then in a stretched out[scripture] and expanded and expanding universe[pseudo science] guess how close the sun would have been to the earth without even a water vapour canopy protection - dust and ashes - btw no big bang,see the exploding topic on this very forum The history of the Big Bang etc - Dinosaurs and Humans were created on the sixth day - if not in the queue when Adam named the animals then must have come after humans not before - winc

Sources please.

We are Catholics: we don’t have to think like the fundamentalist and Evangelical protestants.

 

[feed_me]

Sources please.

We are Catholics: we don’t have to think like the fundamentalist and Evangelical protestants.

1. Didn’t we have a discussion on this and it got closed because it turned or was turning into a science vs religion debate.
2. The 6th day in Genesis was right. Humans were created.

 

[johnnyjones]

Carbon dating is used for organic remains, not volcanic ash. Carbon dating can go back 30,000 to 70,000 years depending on the equipment used in the testing lab. It cannot measure millions of years.

You source is either grossly in error, or lying. Either way it is not a trustworthy source and you should carefully double check whatever else you see there.

A reference would be useful as well.

rossum

atenizo.org/evolution-c14-kar.htm

 

[triumphguy]

I read some of these “sources” and their playing with numbers reminds me of this joke:

So you want a day off huh? Well, let’s just take a look at what you’re asking for ok?

There are 365 days per year, making that 52 weeks. You already have 2 days off per week, leaving just 261 days available for work.

Since you already spend 16 hours each day away from work you’ve used up 170 days, leaving only 91 days left to work.

You spend 30 minutes each day on coffee breaks which accounts for 23 days each year, now leaving only 68 days available.

With a 1 hour lunch break each day, you used up another 46 days, leaving only 22 days available for work.

You normally spend 2 days per year on sick leave, leaving you only 20 days per year available for work.

We are off 5 holidays per year, so your available working time is down to 15 days.

Look, we generously give 14 days vacation per year which leaves only 1 day available for work and I’ll be damned if you’re gonna take that day off!

 

[tabycat]

I have trouble with the dinosaurs existing 65 million years ago and Adam and Eve exicting ‘only’ 20 to 60 thousnd years ago. :bigyikes:

 

[winc]

Sources please.

We are Catholics: we don’t have to think like the fundamentalist and Evangelical protestants.

according to who - sources please - meanwhile why not learn and know Catholic Church teaching - via google search [response to Ron.L.Conte Jr] - winc

 

[triumphguy]

according to who - sources please - meanwhile why not learn and know Catholic Church teaching - via google search [response to Ron.L.Conte Jr] - winc

Thanks for that suggestion - but I do know Catholic teaching.

Many of the sources quoted in this kind of “debate” are by individuals and groups which rely on a kind of biblical numerology to predict the coming rapture/end times/apocalypse too.

Junk science in the service of a very questionable agenda.

 

[winc]

I have trouble with the dinosaurs existing 65 million years ago and Adam and Eve exicting ‘only’ 20 to 60 thousnd years ago. :bigyikes:

Adam and Eve and Dinosaurs existed [peacefully] together appx ten thousand years ago give or take a few thousands and not millions or billions - winc

 

[winc]

Carbon dating is used for organic remains, not volcanic ash. Carbon dating can go back 30,000 to 70,000 years depending on the equipment used in the testing lab. It cannot measure millions of years.

You source is either grossly in error, or lying. Either way it is not a trustworthy source and you should carefully double check whatever else you see there.

A reference would be useful as well.

rossum

any source that states millions or billions of years is grossly in error and lying and fantasy- winc