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Wesrock
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There were a few points to my posts about St. Augustine
- He discouraged fundamentalist interpretations of the creation narrative.
- He discouraged interpretations that flew in the face of what can be observed and seen by reason.
- He himself is a Saint who a millennia and several centuries before Darwin or modern geological and cosmological science put forward an interpretation that did not take the seven days literally. And this was not seen as an issue by the Church.
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TMC
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This is a belief that is put forth mostly in fundamentalist Christian circles. I don’t know that any Catholic biblical scholars hold to this. Certainly the Church doesn’t teach it.
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Rau
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Are there any mainstream Christian religions that advocate genesis is to be read literally? I now Catholicism does not.
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Rau
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The Big Bang theory was proposed by a Catholic Priest in 1931. Not exactly “new age”…
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buffalo
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Hmmmm - from the Catechism
The senses of Scripture
115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.
[116] The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: **“All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”**83
[117] The spiritual sense . Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
- The allegorical sense . We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
- The moral sense . The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
- The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge , “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
We understand the other layers rest on the literal foundation.
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Wesrock
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The Church’s teaching on the “literal sense”, following both Sts. Augustine of Hippo and Thomas Aquinas, is not exactly the same as we understand the word literal in common use. The “literal sense” of Scripture means whatever truths the author wished to convey taking account of grammar, vocabulary, historical context, author’s intent, divine intent, plain sense, and literary style/genre.Rau:
Hmmmm - from the Catechism
The senses of Scripture
115 According to an ancient tradition, one can distinguish between two senses of Scripture: the literal and the spiritual, the latter being subdivided into the allegorical, moral and anagogical senses. The profound concordance of the four senses guarantees all its richness to the living reading of Scripture in the Church.
[116] The literal sense is the meaning conveyed by the words of Scripture and discovered by exegesis, following the rules of sound interpretation: **“All other senses of Sacred Scripture are based on the literal.”**83
[117] The spiritual sense . Thanks to the unity of God’s plan, not only the text of Scripture but also the realities and events about which it speaks can be signs.
118 A medieval couplet summarizes the significance of the four senses:
- The allegorical sense . We can acquire a more profound understanding of events by recognizing their significance in Christ; thus the crossing of the Red Sea is a sign or type of Christ’s victory and also of Christian Baptism.84
- The moral sense . The events reported in Scripture ought to lead us to act justly. As St. Paul says, they were written “for our instruction”.85
- The anagogical sense (Greek: anagoge , “leading”). We can view realities and events in terms of their eternal significance, leading us toward our true homeland: thus the Church on earth is a sign of the heavenly Jerusalem.86
The Letter speaks of deeds; Allegory to faith;
The Moral how to act; Anagogy our destiny.87
We understand the other layers rest on the literal foundation.
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buffalo
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Correct. We are not literalistic.
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vsedriver
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I wish more people took art history.
The first sculpture has been debunked.
The Acambaro Figurines of Mexico
An enormous cache of ceramic figurines was discovered in 1944 by a German immigrant named Waldemar Julsrud in Mexico. But Julsrud didn’t want to dig them out of the ground himself so he hired a local farmer to do the back-breaking work and offered to pay him a per piece rate. What the farmer uncovered was an amazing collection of pieces, many of which appeared to be dinosaurs. Some of the pieces were carbon dated when they were first unearthed and the results showed the pieces were made in 2500 BC. If authentic, the figurines seemed to show that ancient people living in what is now Mexico had knowledge of a wide range of dinosaur species. Subsequent dating efforts, however, point to a different conclusion…that the farmer, eager to keep the money flowing from Julsrud, crafted the majority of the figurines himself, or with the help of friends.
And then the second relief:
Other claims of dinosaurs in ancient art entail similar problems. For example, Patton (2006), Baugh (2006); Swift, 2010) and other YECs have identified a “stegosaur” sculpture in Cambodia (Fig. 5); however, alleged plates on the animal’s back resemble the decorative flourishes found on many other animals on the temple (including birds), and the rest of the animal looks more like a rhinoceros or cameleon than a stegosaur (Dunning, 2010; Kuban, 2011).
And if artwork is proof of existence with man then I want my unicorn and I want it now!
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buffalo
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A Fossilised Skull Has Revealed When The Last ‘Siberian Unicorn’ Lived on Earth
But a beautifully preserved skull found in Kazakhstan in 2016 has completely overturned that assumption. Turns out, these incredible creatures were still around as recently as 29,000 years ago.Yes, that means there was a very real ‘unicorn’ that roamed Earth tens of thousands of years ago, but it was nothing like the one found in your favourite children’s book. (Sorry - it’s a bummer for us, too.)
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vsedriver
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but there are no pictures of that animal in human art. I want the unicorn that men saw and made art of.
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buffalo
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Cave Art
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vsedriver
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I know a rhino when I see one. That’s not a unicorn.
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TMC
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I think you have this exactly backward. The fundamentalist view of Scripture is a Protestant novelty of relatively recent vintage.
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phil19034
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And that is obviously the most likely explanation. However, I do think it’s possible (regardless of how unlikely) that a few, smaller reptiles that are extinct today MIGHT have lived with humans.The ancients had access to fossils, too.
Just like the Saber Tooth Tiger, there are plenty of extinct deadly animals that lived during human history. The idea that tiger sized reptiles co-existed with humans is not an impossible idea (regardless of how unlikely)
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buffalo
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I guess they had a fascination with drawing dead things rather than the living reality around them.
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phil19034
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Maybe. Or perhaps a miniature stegosaurus co-existed with humans? And perhaps, a miniature (ride able) triceratops did co-exist with humans & is the basis for the myth about unicorns?phil19034:
I guess they had a fascination with drawing dead things rather than the living reality around them.
The truth is we will never know for sure unless young fossils are discovered.
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TMC
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To the extent that there has been a “constant teaching,” it has not been that Genesis is literal history. That much is clear, as has been discussed already on this thread. As to Moses having some tablets that recorded Genesis - I don’t recall the Church ever teaching that.
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