Diocese is becoming politically leftist

  • Thread starter Thread starter Loud-living-dogma
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In the here and now there are loving, Catholic families who have risked everything to bring their children to the US so those kids can have a chance at a better life. Under the current program, these people would never have a chance to enter the US “legally”. They are often manual laborers who have a grade school level education. They are poor people.

Poor people cannot come to the US under the current system. Period. The chance of a better life should not be limited to the rich.
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Well. There are a lot of people around the world who live in less than ideal circumstances. Are we required to let everyone in, who “wants a chance at a better life”? How many millions, or billions, of people would that be? I’m sorry, you cannot convince me that the US has to give some sort of legal status to everyone who manages to sneak across the border.

Perhaps the parents were misguided in bringing their children here without legal status.
Of course those who work in immigration assistance will tell you that the biggest danger to an undocumented immigrant is a documented immigrant.
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What do you mean by danger? Is a documented immigrant going to physically harm an undocumented? What exactly do you mean? I guess we aren’t allowed to talk about any danger that an undocumented immigrant brings here.
 
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Loud-living-dogma said:
How many millions, or billions, of people would that be? I’m sorry, you cannot convince me that the US has to give some sort of legal status to everyone who manages to sneak across the border.
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Sometimes we forget, most people love their homeland. They want to live and prosper right there.

Of those who wish to immigrate, not all of them want to come to the US. I know it is a popular sound byte, however, not everyone has an “American Dream”.

You’d be amazed how many people have never traveled abroad, who have not watched more than the 15 second clip on a TV show, people who have never understood real poverty. The poorest person in the USA is a king compared to the crushing poverty in other nations. It is far more than not owning a cell phone or wearing hand-me-down clothes.

If your neighbor were feeding their child cakes made from mud so the stomach would at least stop rumbling for a little bit, you would give them the food from your own pantry.

The terror, the crime, it is more than people breaking in and stealing a TV or stealing your car, it is beheadings because you would not support the local crime lord, watching girls forced into prostitution.

Don’t even begin to get me started on the human trafficking. There are slaves in every town in the US, people who wanted to escape to the US and fell in with criminals who exploit them until they are dead.

I don’t have the answers, I have said that. What we have now is not answers. We cannot make this a political issue. It is a human dignity issue. It is a moral issue.
 
Little Lady,
You never answered my question about what the danger to an undocumented immigrant is from a documented immigrant. What does that mean - - is it physical harm? Spiritual harm? Mental danger? I suppose you’re comparing it to the Prodigal Son. I guess one thing you overlooked is that the illegals don’t say “wow. I really screwed up here. Let me go and ask for forgiveness”. No, what I see are people who are protesting for their rights and demanding things from their host country - - where they don’t even have legal status.
Of those who wish to immigrate, not all of them want to come to the US. I know it is a popular sound byte, however, not everyone has an “American Dream
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That’s strange - I thought that’s exactly what this conversation was about. People who want to some live in the US.
I like it that you can sneer at not everyone has an “American dream” - - when we’re talking about people who came here to live, risking everything.
Looking forward to your explanation of the danger of documented immigrants…
”.
 
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Undocumented people live in fear because they are victimized, they are exploited, they are thought of as morally inferior or intellectually impaired. When they are victims of exploitation or abuse they have no one to defend them.
 
TheLittleLady said:
Undocumented people live in fear because they are victimized, they are exploited, they are thought of as morally inferior or intellectually impaired. When they are victims of exploitation or abuse they have no one to defend them
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I agree with you. This is a major concern, and it is appropriate for people to speak up about it.

However, lots of people are speaking up about it. They have the ear of the media, and the media raises its huge voice in shining a bright light on this. All well and good.

Now, what should be the role of the diocese? By comparison with the media, the diocese has a relatively tiny voice, and a tiny light. Should the diocese acknowledge that it is good this issue is now getting a lot of attention? Sure. But where should the diocese shine its own tiny light on? Not on truths that already get lots of attention but on truths that are in the dark, right now.

The diocese should raise its tiny voice about truths that are, at the moment, forgotten. In the 1950s people were aware of the truth of chastity, for instance, but tended to forget truths about racial equality. Are we living in the 1950s now, or should the diocese focus its resources on truths forgotten in 2017?
 
It is not a zero sum game.

Bishops can speak up about many moral issues!
 
They live in fear, of documented immigrants? How are legal immigrants a danger to illegal immigrants? I am still hoping you will explain what that means.
 
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TheLittleLady said:
Undocumented people live in fear because they are victimized, they are exploited, they are thought of as morally inferior or intellectually impaired. When they are victims of exploitation or abuse they have no one to defend them.
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If being “Undocumented people” is so devastatingly harmful, then perhaps seek citizenship the legal way (as my ancestors did). It may not be as easy, but the result can be gratifying and a great example for others.
 
I’d suggest you volunteer some with your Diocese office of Immigration. People with skin on will have FAR more impact than a faceless internet person.

The fears of victimization and exploitation are very real.
 
Allowing those who are not as fortunate the same chance takes noting
away from the more fortunate. Of course those who work in immigration
assistance will tell you that the biggest danger to an undocumented
immigrant is a documented immigrant. In the Church we call that “elder
brother syndrome” and it is not the Christian way to treat others.
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I am quoting you, Little Lady. I guess you are referring yourself as a “faceless Internet person” because you can’t answer my question. You can’t elaborate just a little? Is it possible that that statement "the biggest danger to an undocumented immigrant is a documented immigrant" is nonsensical?
 
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For the last time. The dangers of which I speak are dangers of being exploited or victimized. I’ve said those words multiple times now. In addition I have use the term “elder brother syndrome”. This applies when people who have been the good son feel morally superior to the prodigal and seek to make the failings of the prodigal public.

If you want salacious details, look elsewhere. You can learn more about the crimes and immoral acts committed against the undocumented people in YOUR community from your the Office of Immigration at Catholic Charities in your Diocese.
 
How does it benefit poor people or who are citizens here and even poor immigrants (legal or illegal) who are already here for us to import more cheap labor? Importing more poverty hurts everyone. Sure, brand new illegal immigrants might be better off for a short term, but as more and more come in, soon they will not be doing well as wages continue to decline as the supply of cheap (illegal) labor increases.
 
Hmmm, I don’t think you properly read or understood my statement. I don’t want salacious details.
I understand that illegal immigrants are in danger of being exploited or victimized, but you specifically stated that “the biggest danger to an undocumented immigrant is a documented immigrant.”
So, are you really saying that legal immigrants are victimizing and exploiting illegal immigrants? Or in what way are legal immigrants a danger to illegal immigrants? I would love to hear what that means! Or acknowledge that you misstated perhaps?
Thanks!
 
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I saw this thread not long after I have gone to confession and saw that the parish was going to be showing a documentary called Making a Killing: Guns, Greed, and the NRA. Now, I do not have a strong opinion on the issue, I was very disappointed that a Catholic parish was getting political in this way. The area is not even far-left, so this came as a shock to me. Personally, I believe that parishes should stay out of political debates that do not involve the non-negotiable issues like abortion because they could alienate good, orthodox Catholics that just think differently on an issue that we as Catholics are allowed to have differences of opinion on.

Anyway OP, you are not wrong to be concerned. I am concerned right now for that parish I just mentioned. I wish I can offer something more pragmatic, but, all I can say is that I feel ya.
 
I believe that parishes should stay out of political debates that do not involve the non-negotiable issues like abortion because they could alienate good, orthodox Catholics that just think differently on an issue that we as Catholics are allowed to have differences of opinion on.
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Yes, Redbetta, I think that is the crux of it. Staying out of the areas that are not non-negotiables. Thanks for putting it so clearly!
 
Such a church deserves zero financial contrubtion.

If they want to virtue-signal to American liberals, let’s see if they’ll open their pocketbooks.
 
The issue is that a stranger or a “sojourner” doesn’t mean he/she trespassed onto that land.
The entire concept of illegal immigration is a modern thing. At the end of the day most people don’t give two hoots about another country’s laws. As far as they see all that matters is their family’s wellbeing. No one wants to be a sacrificial lamb for America’s laws. Especially when the US is perceived as the “Big Evil”.
 
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Not true. Stranger in the old testament means exactly that, someone from a foreign country.
 
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