Diocese mandating Communion in hand due to epidemic

[PetraG]

Sometimes I’m surprised by people’s reactions.

If you’re going to curtail what is normally a right of the faithful, it shouldn’t just be a “good idea.” It really ought to be something whose efficacy has evidence to support it. It isn’t as if this kind of evidence is impossible to get. People have studied these things.

And yes: if you are afraid of contracting an illness, you are wise to keep your hands away from your face and wash your hands with soap and water before leaving any public venue. If you think you might be coming down with anything or anyone in your household or workplace is, it is charitable to wash your hands with soap when you arrive anywhere, before you touch anything. (You should certainly wash your hands with soap and water before and after eating, after you touch your face, and so on…)

(Requiring everybody to receive Holy Communion in the hand isn’t keeping their hands away from their faces. It is requiring them to eat with fingertips that have probably been on the pews.)

 

[fhansen]

Personally I think we can leave it up to the Church to determine what would be normative and reverent. And I rather doubt that the early Church necessarily received on the tongue.

 

[Pitcairn17]

I personally am fairly convinced that illness will not be spread by the chalice, but that is because it is wiped, and as someone above noted, the accidents remain the same, alcohol disinfects, so in theory the accident of wine should keep illness from spreading despite the substance being the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. This said, as an EMHC when I have given communion on the tongue, sometimes I accidentally touch the person’s tongue, which if they are sick, could spread to future hosts I touch, and/or to other’s saliva if I accidentally touch another’s tongue (that accidental contact has only happened once or twice, but I am always concerned of the possibility).

I believe that altar wine is no more than 18% alcohol, and is frequently less - I believe it (mustum aside) can be as low as 5% alcohol - and of course, the wine in the chalice is diluted with some amount of water when it is prepared at the altar. In those proportions I question how much of a “disinfectant” the remaining accidents of wine can really be.

 

[Taras_Bulba]

I sometimes serve as audio tech at a “mission church”, i.e., mass not held in a regular church. I have to set up sound equipment prior to mass, and monitor and adjust it during mass. I wash my hands after set-up but I feel my hands are still dirty by communion.

 

[CilladeRoma]

I think any of us who check our hands after we receive in the hand know that we will find a small fragment left behind from time to time. I know I have.I would propose from experience that it is somewhere between difficult and impossible to consume a small fragment of the Eucharist that is sticking to your hand without any saliva-bridged contact between your mouth and your hand.

Yes, but in this case it would be your own hand and your own saliva.

As an EMHC, I try very hard not to let my hand come in contact with the mouth of someone who receives on the tongue. It only ever happens when someone does not know how to properly receive on the tongue and doesn’t open their mouth wide enough. I am fortunate that that my Pastor has made a point of reminding people of the correct ways to receive, both in the hand and on the tongue, so we don’t have a huge problem anymore.

As I do not live in China, I do not have a horse in this race, but because I work in healthcare, I understand the concern. In the end though, this is not a hill I would die on.

 

[PetraG]

Yes, but in this case it would be your own hand and your own saliva.

As an EMHC, I try very hard not to let my hand come in contact with the mouth of someone who receives on the tongue. It only ever happens when someone does not know how to properly receive on the tongue and doesn’t open their mouth wide enough. I am fortunate that that my Pastor has made a point of reminding people of the correct ways to receive, both in the hand and on the tongue, so we don’t have a huge problem anymore.

As I do not live in China, I do not have a horse in this race, but because I work in healthcare, I understand the concern. In the end though, this is not a hill I would die on.

Yeah, I don’t think it makes enough difference to ask people to refrain from receiving on the tongue, but if my pastor even asked, I’d just do as he asked. I can defend those who wouldn’t, but I would just both receive as I’m asked and do a lot of hand-washing. I’m just saying that I don’t think that someone who objects strenuously is automatically in the wrong. I think they’re technically and scientifically in the right.

 

[CatholicSooner]

savedbychrist:

Am I overreacting

YES.

I think you need to step back. The Eucharist isn’t magic. The Church needs to do its part to prevent spread of a serious, contagious disease.

It would be better to not receive communion than to disrespect the sacredness of the body of our Lord. If this was mandated in my diocese, I would refrain from receiving.

I bet the diocese that did this still does the sign of peace…

 

[paperwight]

1ke:

savedbychrist:

Am I overreacting

YES.

I think you need to step back. The Eucharist isn’t magic. The Church needs to do its part to prevent spread of a serious, contagious disease.

It would be better to not receive communion than to disrespect the sacredness of the body of our Lord. If this was mandated in my diocese, I would refrain from receiving.

I bet the diocese that did this still does the sign of peace…

So you are saying that you believe receiving in the hand is ‘disrespecting the sacredness of the body of our Lord’,’?

I would say that this opinion of yours is disrespecting the authority of the clergy, personally. You do know that receiving in the hand is a legitimate option and even practised by the Pope himself?

 

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

1ke:

savedbychrist:

Am I overreacting

YES.

I think you need to step back. The Eucharist isn’t magic. The Church needs to do its part to prevent spread of a serious, contagious disease.

It would be better to not receive communion than to disrespect the sacredness of the body of our Lord. If this was mandated in my diocese, I would refrain from receiving.

I bet the diocese that did this still does the sign of peace…

So you are saying that you believe receiving in the hand is ‘disrespecting the sacredness of the body of our Lord’,’?

I would say that this opinion of yours is disrespecting the authority of the clergy, personally. You do know that receiving in the hand is a legitimate option even practised by the Pope himself?

The Pope allowed an idol to be worshipped on the Vatican. While I respect his office and what he is, I don’t believe him to be perfect and infallible.

And yes, I do think receiving in the hand is disrespectful. I know it is allowed by the Church. But I personally would refrain from receiving vs taking in the hand. My hands are not consecrated. I don’t need to be touching the host.

I do not believe it to be a coincidence that the majority of Catholics now do not believe in the REal Presence. It is how we treat the Body of our Lord. We treat it as a piece of bread.

Lex orandi, lex credendi

 

[TMC]

I would add that Communion in the Hand was the norm for hundreds of years in the early Church.

I don’t understand all the vitriol over a bishop making what seems to be a reasonable pastoral decision to deal with a (hopefully short-lived) crisis.

 

[paperwight]

ut I personally would refrain from receiving vs taking in the hand. My hands are not consecrated. I don’t need to be touching the host.

I do not believe it to be a coincidence that the majority of Catholics now do not believe in the REal Presence. It is how we treat the Body of our Lord. We treat it as a piece of bread.

Lex orandi, lex credendi

Please quote a reputable survey to back up this assertion, one that uses Mass-going Catholics in its sample, rather than all who identify as Catholics but don’t go to Mass.

And I assume you don’t approve of Permanent Deacons touching the Hosts, either, as their hands aren’t consecrated.

 

[pnewton]

I do not believe it to be a coincidence that the majority of Catholics now do not believe in the REal Presence. It is how we treat the Body of our Lord. We treat it as a piece of bread.

Historically, this decline preceded communion in the hand. I think evidence does not show much causation.

You seem to be saying that we should stop going at the smallest risk, our saints and martyrs had a different belief. We recognise their greatness because they kept going despite the risks.

One can have faith without handling snakes to prove it. We are also a pro-life people who believe that life should not be taken for granted.

I bet the diocese that did this still does the sign of peace…

I would bet you are letting your prejudice against this legitimate practice get the better of you. I will never understand this mind set. The divisiveness that springs from “my way is better than your way” is the true desecration to the Body of Christ.

 

[CatholicSooner]

ut I personally would refrain from receiving vs taking in the hand. My hands are not consecrated. I don’t need to be touching the host.

I do not believe it to be a coincidence that the majority of Catholics now do not believe in the REal Presence. It is how we treat the Body of our Lord. We treat it as a piece of bread.

Lex orandi, lex credendi

Please quote a reputable survey to back up this assertion, one that uses Mass-going Catholics in its sample, rather than all who identify as Catholics but don’t go to Mass.

And I assume you don’t approve of Permanent Deacons touching the Hosts, either, as their hands aren’t consecrated.

Why cherry pick which Catholics? They are fallen away for a reason. If they truly knew it was Jesus we were receiving, I don’t think they would miss mass. I never asserted that it was only mass going CAtholics. Although the % that believe in the real presence of mass going Catholics is low as well.

I do not like Deacons handling the hosts as well, you are correct.

 

[CilladeRoma]

The divisiveness that springs from “my way is better than your way” is the true desecration to the Body of Christ.

This should be a header to every post in the Liturgy & Sacraments and Tradtional forum on this site.

 

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

I do not believe it to be a coincidence that the majority of Catholics now do not believe in the REal Presence. It is how we treat the Body of our Lord. We treat it as a piece of bread.

Historically, this decline preceded communion in the hand. I think evidence does not show much causation.

You seem to be saying that we should stop going at the smallest risk, our saints and martyrs had a different belief. We recognise their greatness because they kept going despite the risks.

One can have faith without handling snakes to prove it. We are also a pro-life people who believe that life should not be taken for granted.

I bet the diocese that did this still does the sign of peace…

I would bet you are letting your prejudice against this legitimate practice get the better of you. I will never understand this mind set. The divisiveness that springs from “my way is better than your way” is the true desecration to the Body of Christ.

Lack of priests, lack of religious vocations answered, increase in immoral behavior, churches being closed down, schools being closed down, attendence down, lack of proper catechises.

I mean these all look like relatively new trends. Not all of them can be traced to the 60s but I would love to see your data that proves it wrong.

I’m not saying my way is better…I’m saying the Church’s way was better for 1950 years of existence vs the last 50. And the results are startling and anyone that can’t see that won’t realize it before it is too late.

 

[CilladeRoma]

Although the % that believe in the real presence of mass going Catholics is low as well.

And you know this how?

And, not to mention the fact that the study that came up with this 70% don’t believe nonsense, is just that, nonsense.

The question they asked and how it was asked, even the Pope himself would not have answered in the affirmative.

As to the Deacon thing, well you and the Church disagree on that. I will stick with the Church.

 

[CatholicSooner]

pnewton:

The divisiveness that springs from “my way is better than your way” is the true desecration to the Body of Christ.

This should be a header to every post in the Liturgy & Sacraments and Tradtional forum on this site.

Should we pretend that all beliefs are equal?
I’m guessing St. Paul and the apostles were desecrating the Body of Christ when they admonished the early churches?

 

[CatholicSooner]

CatholicSooner:

Although the % that believe in the real presence of mass going Catholics is low as well.

And you know this how?

And, not to mention the fact that the study that came up with this 70% don’t believe nonsense, is just that, nonsense.

The question they asked and how it was asked, even the Pope himself would not have answered in the affirmative.

As to the Deacon thing, well you and the Church disagree on that. I will stick with the Church.

Well if you don’t believe the surveys then I don’t know what to tell you. The data is out there. Sure it will have some margin of error. But it is troubling imo.

I’ve had a few people that I am good friends with that are in their 30s and go to mass weekly and just now realized that we believe that the host is truly the Body and Blood of Jesus. This happened after a new discipleship process that was started at our parish.

I can only speak for US Catholics, but the pews are FULL of people that don’t realize the gravity of the Mass and the Most Holy Eucharist.

 

[CatholicSooner]

37% that go to mass every week don’t believe in transubstantiation even though they know the Church’s teaching. They outrightedly reject the belief.

One-third of U.S. Catholics believe in transubstantiation | Pew Research Center

Even if that number is off by 10%, that is remarkable.

What we are doing isn’t working

 

[Kindnessmatters]

More than one…the news releases from around the US are stacking up like cord wood. Thousands of people travel between the US and China daily so it will be here.

We fortunately have cleaner air, much less dense populations, better sanitation, less reliance on public transportation. We live in larger homes with fewer people…four people in three bedrooms rather than seven people sleeping in one room. It will likely be a concern here, but not nrsrly to the extent it is there.