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EricPH
Guest
There have been times of persecution in the history of the church, people risked their lives to say Mass and attend Mass, if they were caught, they were killed.
You seem to be saying that we should stop going at the smallest risk, our saints and martyrs had a different belief. We recognise their greatness because they kept going despite the risks.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
We celebrate the greatness of our martyrs because they did something extraordinarily heroic for the faith.
The Church does not expect, much less require, every one of its members to put their lives at risk and embrace martyrdom. Someone may have a very good reason for not wanting to be sick or die - perhaps they have children depending on them.
Furthermore, a good bishop will try to protect his flock from danger and death, just like a good shepherd tries to keep his sheep out of risky situations. A bishop might not be able to protect his diocese from a murderous ruler or dictator, but he can certainly take steps to protect them from infecting each other with a dangerous virus, as it’s a preventable risk. It’s quite reasonable for him to do so.
In the USA, when we have a bad weather event, it’s not unusual for Masses to be cancelled so that people do not risk being injured or killed in an accident driving to Mass, or falling down/ getting blown over in an icy parking lot. A broken hip from a fall could kill an elderly person. I hope you wouldn’t insist that everybody should be risking life and limb to get to Mass in that situation so we can be just like the martyrs.
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Kindnessmatters
Guest
The majority of parishioners in my area accept communion in their hands regularly. I only once saw an issue and it happened at a wedding where a mentally incomoetent relative of the groom didn’t understand what to do with the host and just kept holding it. The deacon took the host back…awkward but he handled it.
This virus is spreading like wildfire and I would think twice about going to mass in that situation. I might watch on TV for a few weeks and hope God would understand. That’s what my elderly relatives did when they were medically frail and couldn’t risk crowds.
So if people are at mass, every reasonable precaution should be taken…not handling hosts with hundreds of people breathing on their hand.
God commands us to be prudent, so I am confident any awkwardness can be forgiven.
This virus is spreading like wildfire and I would think twice about going to mass in that situation. I might watch on TV for a few weeks and hope God would understand. That’s what my elderly relatives did when they were medically frail and couldn’t risk crowds.
So if people are at mass, every reasonable precaution should be taken…not handling hosts with hundreds of people breathing on their hand.
God commands us to be prudent, so I am confident any awkwardness can be forgiven.
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
the latest on this virus is not great news with 4 cases already in the states, several in Thailand, Japan, Vietnam, Singapore, South Korea…(this has updated in the time I have taken to read this post and respond. Its spreading that fast and cases being confirmed) McDonalds will stop trading in certain areas of China , Disneyland in Shanghai is closing, hospitals are full of people waiting to be seen, with queues stretching down the street, people being transported out of air port terminals in quarantine boxes if they are showing signs of illness. 40 million Chinese are affected by lockdowns or travel restrictions.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020...-outbreak-latest-updates-200124063503577.html
It is an emergency in China. WHO had as of Thursday not yet declared a global emergency. Since then, the spread of this virus outside China has started to take off. It is in Singapore, Vietnam, South Korea, USA, Japan, …
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
Well they know it is human to human transfer, and transfer is not indicated by intravenous drug use, sexual transfer , but by common, normal day to day living activities.
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PetraG
Guest
Cough or sneeze aerosol vs saliva transfer due to Holy Communion on the tongue: which is the more likely mode of transmission?
H1N1 could live on a surface for 2-8 hours; it was possible to get sick by transfer from someone who sneezed at the Mass before yours.
H1N1 could live on a surface for 2-8 hours; it was possible to get sick by transfer from someone who sneezed at the Mass before yours.
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PetraG
Guest
This virus has a single case in the United States. It is a serious disease and deserves vigilance, but “wildfire” is an overstatement.
(When something like measles hits an unvaccinated population, then you’re talking wildfire.)
(When something like measles hits an unvaccinated population, then you’re talking wildfire.)
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
What ever the mode of transmission, and I will leave that up to the virologists to determine, and I can see them not getting much sleep until they have determined the method, It is HIGHLY AFFECTIVE and infective.
I would hedge a bet, this being a coronavirus, that coughing ,sneeze aerosol, saliva transfer, hand to mouth, other questionable human habits, touching keyboards, phones, door handles, all of the above.
Some of these emerging bacteria and virus are quite scary, there is one staph that really requires complete remodelling of the area the sickpatient has been in.
China is in an emergency but learnt so much in the SARS outbreak and are putting that learning into effect.
They know where the virus began, and potentially consider it an animal to human transfer at first. I
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OurLadyofSorrows
Guest
There are 4 cases in USA on last count
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Michael_Anthony
Guest
I personally am fairly convinced that illness will not be spread by the chalice, but that is because it is wiped, and as someone above noted, the accidents remain the same, alcohol disinfects, so in theory the accident of wine should keep illness from spreading despite the substance being the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. This said, as an EMHC when I have given communion on the tongue, sometimes I accidentally touch the person’s tongue, which if they are sick, could spread to future hosts I touch, and/or to other’s saliva if I accidentally touch another’s tongue (that accidental contact has only happened once or twice, but I am always concerned of the possibility).
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ioannes_pius
Guest
I assume that Communion in the Hand is permitted in this area.
Genuine question(s):
1: Is an individual bishop permitted to do this in cases of public health crises?
If so…
2: Are there provisions from the Holy See in place to guide/govern this?
If so…
3: What are these provisions?
Genuine question(s):
1: Is an individual bishop permitted to do this in cases of public health crises?
If so…
2: Are there provisions from the Holy See in place to guide/govern this?
If so…
3: What are these provisions?
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JoeShlabotnik
Guest
The way Communist China continues to persecute the Church, it does not surprise me that they would issue this sort of mandate.
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PetraG
Guest
The CDC is showing appropriate vigilance. The virus is not currently “spreading like wildfire.”
Having said that, I will definitely concede that a bishop in Hong Kong could easily be forgiven for not trusting health authorities in China when it comes to being forthcoming with epidemiological information. My premise is that if there is concern high enough to curtail the right of the faithful to receive Holy Communion without handling the Eucharist themselves, there is probably concern high enough to dispense with the obligation to attend Sunday Mass, just based on what activities are most likely to spread the virus.
When a disease is bad enough for the CDC to close all the salad bars, it’s probably going to be bad enough to just ban salads, that’s all I’m saying.
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Fuerza
Guest
I’m not convinced of that. Even if the wine does disinfect the inside of the cup, your mouth still comes in contact with the top portion of the outside of the cup, where the wine doesn’t touch. Also, the cup is wiped over and over again with the same cloth, which does in fact carry germs. That doesn’t mean that everyone will get sick, but it’s not as sanitary as it appears.
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PetraG
Guest
Honestly, having everybody wash their hands with soap and water before coming in and immediately before leaving would probably make the biggest difference.
This one step cut illness in daycares in half, and we all know that kids in daycare are pretty liberal in sharing slobber.
Wiping down the tops of the pews would probably also make more of a difference that barring Holy Communion received on the tongue.
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Michael_Anthony
Guest
True, but usually we do shift which part of the cloth we wipe with so it is further reducing contamination. It isn’t necessarily fool proof, just a pretty remote chance.
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on_the_hill
Guest
Sometimes I’m surprised by people’s reactions. 
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PetraG
Guest
The experiments say that the wine does not disinfect the cup, the metal in the cup isn’t very germicidal in the time frame, but wiping with linen does cut the number of organisms on the cup by about 90%.
(It’s in one of the reviews I posted near the top of the thread.)
Yes, extraordinary ministers are usually taught to rotate the cup and change the part of the linen being used when wiping the cup. This does make a difference, and yes, the CDC has found that people who receive Holy Communion from a common cup don’t get sick at a higher rate than the general population. This is not a route that leads to a lot of disease transmission.
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