Disagreeing with Canceling Holy Week

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So, are you saying that 163000 deaths is all we can expect and that’s less important than missing mass? Just trying to be clear what you mean.

Churches closed is worse than 163,000 deaths? That’s what you mean?
 
Through a covid ward?

I deliver food to the poor too.

See, we agree on something
 
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What percentage of people, do you think, will return to church after all this is over? And of those that don’t return how many of them will be in mortal jeopardy of losing their souls?
 
Many won’t return. Not because they didn’t want to. This is very sad and very serious
 
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Dave I Just want to be clear as to your position.

Now, rereading your posts, it’s evident that to you, 163,000 deaths from corona is less important than closing churches. I mean, that IS what you appear to be saying.

And that’s a “weak” pandemic to you. Just quoting you directly on that one.

Can we go further, please?

If it were a million expected dead, would that be more important (or worse if you prefer) than closing churches temporarily for say 2 months?

10 million dead?

50 million?

Just so I understand.
 
A private response, and the only appropriate Christian response:

If by closing churches for 2 months the bishops save one life, it was worth it.

It makes no difference if that life was black or white; Christian, Muslim or atheist; gay or straight; rich or poor.

It’s biblical: God would have saved Sodom had Abraham found 10 righteous men.

I’ll call it quits. But I will respectfully conclude that dave’s view - 163,000 expected dead is better than closing churches temporarily - is chilling.

I’d respectfully ask for prayers that I and my wife (the hospital worker) aren’t two of the 163,000. We appear to be very expendable to some…
 
What percentage of people, do you think, will return to church after all this is over? And of those that don’t return how many of them will be in mortal jeopardy of losing their souls?
History shows a resurgence in church attendance after a crisis for a period before returning to pre crisis rates.

 
Those crises cited in the article were single events and a poor comparison to months with telling the public the church (therefore your soul) is not essential.
 
The church is in the business of saving souls first (just like Jesus).
 
Implying I don’t care about human life would be as uncharitable as me saying you don’t love Jesus. So I will make the charitable assumption that is not what you meant.
 
Those crises cited in the article were single events and a poor comparison to months with telling the public the church (therefore your soul) is not essential.
It seems like you are scrambling to support some kind of agenda. As recently as late last year a synod was held responding to the cry from the Amazon for access to the sacraments. People can live for years, decades without the Sacraments and it only increases their desire for it.
 
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k.vasquez222:
It’s appalling to me that many would risk transmission of covid-19, and killing others for the convenience of receiving communion.
The Holy Sacrament is not a convenience. Trivializing the Mass is no answer to the OP.
Why would you direct such a comment to anyone? Observing the directions of those in the highest echelons of our Church is hardly trivializing!
 
Did you know covid 19 can stay on the soles of your shoes 7 days. You can spread it by moving around. That is why countries are sanitising streets. Dont wear outside shoes in the house, or , sanitise them
 
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Sweden has NO lockdown. There numbers are 4.38% have gotten the virus and of those .0002% have died.

Should we be careful? yes. But, everyone is freaking out over a “pandemic” that is on track to be the weakest pandemic in history.
I am saving this post for 6 months time and am going to ask for figures then and your opinion on ‘weakest pandemic in history’ but for now what is your measure for a weak vs strong pandemic
 
Dear brother in Christ,

You are sharing some righteous points. I, too, struggle with feelings of being upset with us, as Catholics, not recognizing that the food and drink at the Mass is more valuable than the food and drink at the grocery store, or that since the Mass is the Hospital for sinners, it should be allowed to remain open.
However, to help us overcome our ultimately wrong position of being upset with the sin of others, we must focus on recognizing and removing the log in our eyes first.
On that note, here we are sharing the necessity of Mass for life, yet we still struggle with sin.
Therefore, I recognize that in the moments we choose to sin, and even the times we accidentally sin, we are more grievous a sinner than those that don’t recognize Mass is more necessary to life than anything else.

In conclusion, let’s redirect our passion to dig deeper in removing worse logs in our eyes, and then work towards helping others remove the specks in theirs without being upset, knowing we too have struggled deeply with sinning.

Thank you for your time and consideration, and thanks be to God!
If it is indeed more necessary and valuable it is also more precious - as are the lives and health of the priests who are necessary to provide it.

Mass can easily take place, and is now taking place, without a congregation. It cannot take place without the priest. And every priest who becomes ill or dies is one less Mass offered for us. And every additional person the priest needlessly comes into contact with needlessly increases that risk.

THAT is why it is important to temporarily exclude.the public from Mass.
 
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But Dave, your posts are clear: To you, hundreds of thousands of US dead are better than the churches closed for a few weeks.

You’ve been given many opportunities to say you disagree with that statement and you clearly won’t.

In your view, the right to attend mass is more important than hundreds of thousands of lives.

Further dialog is pointless.
 
Those crises cited in the article were single events and a poor comparison to months with telling the public the church (therefore your soul) is not essential.
How are you equating the ability to attend Mass with saying one’s soul is not essential? Do you think the generations of Catholics who could rarely attend Mass lost their souls?

When you read Christ’s commands for how we are to treat our brothers and sisters—do you not think that also contributes to our discipleship?
 
Many won’t return. Not because they didn’t want to. This is very sad and very serious
On one hand, I would say that the risk of some of these people going to Hell because the permanently turn their back on God, which is a likely outcome, is the most serious of problems. Yet on the other hand, the parable of the sower reminds us that life is always full of thorns and thistles that choke out the faith. People will still choose what their God is. Some may not return to the gym. Most will return to work (that are not working). I do not know that we can see the closing of public Mass as a cause, as much as an indicator.

In any case, I am skeptical of the argument that if closing the Churches loses one soul it is not worth it, as much as I am of the argument that if the same action saves on life, it is worth it. Such answers are too simplistic in this rather complex question for me.
Why would you direct such a comment to anyone? Observing the directions of those in the highest echelons of our Church is hardly trivializing!
Interesting. You object that I use the word “trivializing” when the Mass was referred to as a convenience. You did not object to the word “appalling,” a far more emotional word, being applied to a fellow poster. Okay, but the reason I said what I did then was because the post, in my opinion too the objection of the OP too lightly and did in fact trivialize the other viewpoint. I agree with what the bishops have finally done, but I do not think the decision is so black and white, nor do I think those who disagree with them are fanatics. There has been a lot of harsh rhetoric directed at them, and even me for understanding them somewhat. That is why I said what I did. Trivializing this issue is not an answer to the OP, nor are insults, nor is accusing anyone of not caring for life. This stuff is all rather uncharitable, in my opinion.

But yes, saying that Mass, in this issue, is just a matter of convenience, is taking a serious issue and making it look far more trivial than it is. The issue is not, and never was, one of convenience.
 
When you read Christ’s commands for how we are to treat our brothers and sisters—do you not think that also contributes to our discipleship?
I think this is one of the best answers to the OP, or others that cannot stand missing Mass. The Mass is not a goal, but a means to the end of our sanctification. If going to Mass itself is an act lacking in charity toward neighbor, then we have made it the end, and not the means.
To you, hundreds of thousands of US dead are better than the churches closed for a few weeks.
I think the time table does matter. When this thread started, dioceses across the country were shifting from Mass being closed until Holy Week, to now being closed through April. It will shift again near the end of the month, I have no doubt. I did not think then, nor do I now, that we will have Churches closed just for a few weeks. That is why I would like better solutions (not just for Masses) that last months.
 
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