Disagreeing with Canceling Holy Week

[EXdrinker]

If people congregate they will spread the virus and people will die. Parishioners will die and priests will die. Why is that so hard to understand? Many priests and parishioners are high risk because of age or other conditions. Those who are healthy but carriers can spread it to others. Priests that die can never say mass again. About two weeks ago I read an article that stated sixty priests in Italy had already died. This virus is nothing to gamble with.

I am really having a serious problem with people who cannot fathom that there are ways to make going to mass safe. At least as safe as going through the drive-through, the gas station, the liquor store, and everything else that is open. Catholics are experts at social distancing. You can be a member of a parish for years before anyone knows your name. There are ways to make these absolutely essential sacraments available to those who want to, safely, by a priest who wants to. We just need bishops to step up for us.

 

[JulianN]

We just need bishops to step up for us.

The bishops already stepped up for us —that’s why public attendance at Mass is suspended.

 

[Convert3]

No, there aren’t. You can’t have that many people congregate without high risk. It’s just not practical in any way. If a person needs to cough or sneeze, they can’t always control it. There will be some who don’t even cover themselves.

 

[TC3033]

You think your anecdotal experience is representative of what’s happening nationwide at fast food restaurants?

I’d say it’s probably a good representation of the majority. I know Cajun and I live on different ends of the country and I basically experienced the same thing.

What on earth is wrong with a priest saying mass for his people if he wants to? If a priest wants to say mass should he not have that opportunity?

I think that they are…they’re just “private” and in most places streamed.

 

[Convert3]

I don’t expect to find allies in secularists.

Is that what you think those who you disagree with are?

 

[TC3033]

while others crave, defend vices and nonessentials as necessities. I don’t expect to find allies in secularists.

I really hope that you aren’t saying that about posters here. That’s absolutely ridiculous if you are.

 

[VonDerTann]

What on earth is wrong with me going to mass if I want to?

I mean I just have a little cough.

And a little sore throat. And my fever’s only 101.

No one will notice - but God and others will see my conviction!

I mean what on earth could be wrong with that?

 

[VonDerTann]

It’s really silly to say how simple it is not to breathe in church, yet then also say others are condescending when we say “it’s not quite as simple as that.”

It’s not condescending to say, “your ideas aren’t well thought out, will never work in the real world, and if practiced would needlessly expose others to a killer virus.”

 

[EXdrinker]

I have never said a priest should not be obedient to his bishop. The argument is that the bishops should get us out of this by finding safe ways to make the sacraments availalbe to their flocks by using priests who want to do so and standing up to the state. . . .

 

[Lysander]

I didn’t like the closing of public masses (still don’t). There comes a point through when one has to stop arguing with the decision of our Fathers the Bishops. I have not always agreed with my Earthly Father. When He made a decision I didnt like and I kept arguing with him it hurt my family and my father. Same with our Bishops and the Holy Catholic Church. We should view the Bishops as trying to do the right thing and pray for God for this to pass, not keep up the debate.
God Bless and stay safe my brother in Christ.

 

[VonDerTann]

There’s really no difference between “why can’t the priest say mass if he wants to?” and any other “if he/she wants to” scenario.

If I ask “Why can’t I drink a fifth of scotch then drive home, if I want to?”, Everyone sees the obvious response of “but you might injure or kill others, or even yourself.” I really can’t understand why others don’t see the obvious parallels to the virus.

 

[Convert3]

by using priests who want to do so and standing up to the state.

I don’t believe the government specifically ordered churches closed. The bishops chose to take action when the governors began ordering shutdowns. The bishops want to protect their flock and priests and followed their guidance. If this went to court in the US the government would lose. This isn’t a police state.

 

[EXdrinker]

You said this while completely ignoring the conversation from a mere two hours ago. You are falsely stating my position. Please stop. This isn’t hard to follow. You keep ignoring the underlying point of what I have been saying; that bishops should begin finding safe ways to get the sacraments to their people. My point is not that priests should violate their oath of obedience, it is that the bishops should find ways to safely serve those who need the sacraments and that they should stand up to the state and fight that the church is essential. Please hear this. This is the third time I am attempting to reach your intellect with this point. Thank you.

I never said this. You are misleading people about what I stated. Please recant.

My argument is that the bishops realize that there are ways to do this safely and to let the state know they are an essential service and start getting back to the sacraments.
[/quote]

 

[VonDerTann]

Excellent point, and it leads to another one:

I knew a judge who always wanted her law clerk to write her opinions in certain ways. The law clerk often disagreed with her. Finally she said to him, “God made me the judge, the opinion is going to say X or you can leave.”

There are times and places where dissent is counterproductive or at least inappropriate. At some juncture disagreement becomes insolence or arrogant refusal to accept lawful authority. This is one of them. That’s bad enough. It’s worse when it encourages others to do likewise.

The fact that people are saying “it’s so simple, just hold your breath!” or “it’s so simple, just say a million masses” becomes arrogant insistence that superiors don’t know anything (maybe they know things lay people don’t).

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

For those disagreeing with cancelling public gatherings Masses,
here is a what would you do question. In Revelation it is said noone will be able to do certain things without the mark of the beast ( whatever that will be).
So what if

You had to have this mark to attend Mass or go into a Church. Would you do it or would you refuse and not go to Mass or into a Church?

 

[EXdrinker]

You had to have this mark to attend Mass or go into a Church. Would you do it or would you refuse and not go to Mass or into a Church?

Interesting question. Answer is, “of course not.” I am wondering if a priest said mass for the faithful without this mark, without his bishop’s approval, would he be in error?

 

[catholiclala]

This thread is more entertaining than anything on Netflix right now. I was just discussing all of this with my daddy who is a Baptist minister. He was cracking up because some Texas Baptists are having the same debates.

 

[OurLadyofSorrows]

Interesting question. Answer is, “of course not.” I am wondering if a priest said mass for the faithful without this mark, without his bishop’s approval, would he be in error?

Yes, the things that come to mind when house cleaning after the essential workers .

I havent thought the mechanics of it through , but a month ago we would not have thought in certain countries anything would happen so the Churches would be shut to the public, but now we know differently.

 

[Emeraldlady]

Emeraldlady:

To offer Communion in drive thru would seriously distort the meaning of the Eucharist in my eyes.

I never proposed this ridiculous idea or would ever think to. The original point was that our values are misplaced. Things that are of no value are open (things like fast food restaurant, liquor stores, abortion clinics, etc), while the most necessary of all places, the Church, is closed and prohibited (for some, it seems) from attending.

I don’t know about where you are but fast food restaurants here have closed all their dine in facilities because of the risk of transmission in that scenario.

How else would you envisage getting Communion outside the gathering at Mass?

 

[pnewton]

By trying to figure out a way around social distancing?

I am also abiding by the laws of the state. I am following the instructions of the diocese. That still isn’t good enough? And no, I am not trying to find a way around social distancing. As I have already said, my own counsel on this will I keep, as I am not the one who has flopped back and forth as to what is safe like the various governments have. I have a role I have been asked to fill and will do what I am asked and abide by all applicable laws, as well as common sense health guidelines.