Disagreeing with Canceling Holy Week

[JoeFreedom]

I see two extremes by leaders, private an public. The first is the disregard of the danger. The second is the exaggeration of the danger.

Thank you @pnewton. This is what I’ve been arguing now. People don’t see that, and maybe because I haven’t explicitly stated it, but this is not a black and white issue and I’m not arguing there isn’t any danger. What I’m trying to express is the absolutely overreaction, and maybe, just maybe, people can look at it differently. But the effect is all the same, Everyone stay at home, do not go out, potentially for months, darned be everything else. There is some middle ground here.

Not sure who it was, but someone was complaining they saw people at WalMart. FOR SHAME people, who are you to go out and buy the things you need, like food. Don’t you know you aren’t flattening the curve!

 

[JoeFreedom]

I volunteer for FMSC (Feed My Starving Children) which supplies food to people who are dying every day of hunger. Thousands or people die every day from hunger. Thousands. I checked their web site and while they say they have not gotten any reports COVID is impacting them, I do not believe it. FMSC has stopped all services now for several weeks, meaning that NO food is going to these people that would have. The obvious conclusion can only be that more people are dying.

So when I say all of this, I want people to understand, choices have consequences and when on chooses the black and white option they must know it has other devastating impacts that no one else is mentioning.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

Not sure who it was, but someone was complaining they saw people at WalMart. FOR SHAME people, who are you to go out and buy the things you need, like food. Don’t you know you aren’t flattening the curve!

That was me and it wasn’t that I thought it was wrong to be at Walmart but it was a comment meant to get others to understand people have needs.

I volunteer for FMSC (Feed My Starving Children) which supplies food to people who are dying every day of hunger. Thousands or people die every day from hunger. Thousands. I checked their web site and while they say they have not gotten any reports COVID is impacting them, I do not believe it. FMSC has stopped all services now for several weeks, meaning that NO food is going to these people that would have. The obvious conclusion can only be that more people are dying.

That is extremely sad.

God bless

 

[JoeFreedom]

My apologies. I just get so upset at the unreasoned reactions to this, and sorry I did not understand where you were coming from.

God bless you as well.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

No problem. I understand where you are coming from.

 

[VonDerTann]

Joe, i see 2 significant problems with your position of “people should be allowed to accept responsibility and live the way they want to”:

1. Arrogance and it’s cousin hypocrisy. There is an expectation/desire that people are entitled to live as they see fit, regardless of consequence. This comes both from living in a largely free society and from the “if you want it, take it” attitude our culture fosters. That’s very arrogant and is bad enough, since it says your choices are more Important than anyone else’s.
   It’s worse that The same people who want to live as they desire are not going to hole up and die quietly all alone when they get sick with covid, any more than the folks who smoke and drink too much: “I’m going to live my life as I see fit!” Today Becomes tomorrow’s “I want that old lady’s ventilator because she’s old and I’m 22!”
2. More directly relevant, the issue with Wuhan flu is that you can carry it and infect others for well over a week without knowing you’re carrying it. The willingness to potentially infect others because you want to live as you see fit displays a flippant and casual disregard for others’ wellbeing that is totally at odds with any bona fide Christianity.

 

[puer.dei]

I am in the high risk group, and I decide to go out, I (ME) take that risk. I CHOSE it. I accept responsibility for MY actions, not the actions of others.

Let the lambasting begin about how I am not a Christian, want people to die, and all the other nasties…

I don’t think you actually want people to die. I do think you don’t understand the implications of what you’re saying. If you choose to go out, with no way of knowing whether you may already have the virus, you risk spreading it to others. Some of them could be high risk, with or without knowing it.

If you want to choose to risk your own life, that’s on you. Why do you want to risk the lives of others?

 

[JoeFreedom]

Why do you want to risk the lives of others?

I don’t think people are understanding this concept very well. And you are correct, I have no desire for people to die, let’s just make that crystal clear. But neither can we save everyone. And there are others now who are dying because we cannot help them.

What I am saying is that if I in the high risk group, it is my personal responsibility to avoid people. I own that responsibility. And if I am in the low risk group, it is my personal responsibility to avoid people in the high risk group. If we all did this, then the people who are healthy would stay health and the people who are at risk would not contract it. But what we have is everyone having to stay home. All I hear is that there are deaths. Deaths here and deaths there, but the vast vast majority of deaths are in the high risk groups, those over 70 or 80 with multiple major chronic health problems.

What is so hard to understand that if the people who had high risks stayed away from those who didn’t, the people with high risks would be fine. So if I have it, and I am low risk, but the high risk people stay away, they don’t contract it. Please tell me how someone would not know they are high risk? It is this we must save everyone theory that I just don’t understand. No one was complaining that heart attacks topped 750,000 in the US last year. Where’s the outrage? That alone leaves many families without loved ones, or income. Who is blaming them for the abuse they did to their bodies to leave their families and risk their lives?

f you want to choose to risk your own life, that’s on you.

Exactly.

 

[JoeFreedom]

Do you understand I am staying at home because I have asthma, therefore I am abiding by my own integrity and staying away from others, so I do not become ill. I have chosen to stay away from others, not asked the entire world to stay away from me.

If I was in the low risk group, I would avoid people who were in the high risk group by not going where they are. And they by the same token, should live by the same action, if they do not want to become infected, stay away from other people.

I simply cannot understand how this is not understood. High risk people wouldn’t get infected if the low risk people who may or may not have it, with or without symptoms, never associate.

 

[ThomasMT]

I simply cannot understand how this is not understood. High risk people wouldn’t get infected if the low risk people who may or may not have it, with or without symptoms, never associate.

Because it demands reason, rather than emotion.

 

[VonDerTann]

Joe, with all due respect, we are all in a high risk group at this point.

 

[Pattylt]

I simply cannot understand how this is not understood. High risk people wouldn’t get infected if the low risk people who may or may not have it, with or without symptoms, never associate.

I simply cannot understand why you think that you or others are capable of 100% isolation? We aren’t and you aren’t. We need to buy groceries and gas. We touch stuff when we do. This virus lives on surfaces as well as aerosols. Do high risk patients have to 100% isolate so that low risk people can go about their normal routines? Should low risk patients that may be unknown carriers 100% isolate so high risk people can safely buy groceries to live?

Our house is a family of five. Two are high risk, three are not. One, however while not being high risk herself, has a fiancé that is extremely high risk…so much so that they are not seeing each other in person at this time…she’s very afraid she could be a carrier and not know it.

There just isn’t any way to isolate 100% other than a hospital. We all need to sacrifice a bit of freedom temporarily for safety. It’s not permanent…it’s not long term. By doing so, we assure a future where we gain these freedoms back. Not doing so could lead to more loss of freedoms! Let’s think in terms of society instead of personal preferences for a bit longer and allow the time needed to tackle this virus.

 

[commenter]

My pastor is quietly mentioning to people that he still says a “private” Mass at the same time as the former public Mass schedule. So if anyone happens to show up, of course he can’t deny him Communion.

Oddly enough he wears his microphone so you can hear his homily.

I admit I went to his faux private Mass a few times last week. But I wish I hadn’t. People were sitting sometimes close to others. The Communion line had people right behind one another just as they did, before the virus hit our community.

A few people brought their children. The pastor criticized the bishops for cancellation of public Masses.

Obviously the children are put at risk of the virus. But they also exposed to the “virus” of disobedience. We’ve had 60 years of the message “what’s more important. Love or Obedience.”?

The children will apply this lesson to other things, besides Mass.

 

[VonDerTann]

Your post is a great one.

There’s all sorts of issues at play beyond the most obvious.

Who does the priest “invite?” Big donors? Would you like to be one of the folks who DON’T get invited? What does it say to me if I’m not invited? What will the priest say when someone calls the police? What sort of liability is the church exposed to? What will happen when a visibly sick person shows up?

The whole episode is a disgrace.

 

[pnewton]

. Don’t you know you aren’t flattening the curve!

That is a whole new issue. I might be a little more understanding with this whole flattening the curve garbage if it weren’t for two things. The first is that those graphs are fake, in that they never have any actual data on them, or even marked along both axes. The second is that it took two weeks for the President to have GM make more ventilators using the Defense Production Act, you know, that thing that could actually increase healthcare capability. Healthcare capacity need not be constant. I cannot beleive the Defense Production Act was not used day one for equipment and personal protection equipment.

 

[ThomasMT]

There just isn’t any way to isolate 100% other than a hospital.

Precisely.

We all need to sacrifice a bit of freedom temporarily for safety.

“Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.” - Ben Franklin

It’s not permanent…it’s not long term.

Promises on which tyranny is always founded. Giving up freedoms is easy, getting them back rarely is.

 

[pnewton]

Who does the priest “invite?”

It is doable. Simply have private Mass and use something like sign-up genius. Expand the number of Masses and to not let anyone back until everyone has had a chance. Anyone who does not respect social distancing will not be allowed to sign up. Follow strict rules and the Holy Eucharist could be received.

Slowing spread does not require 100% isolation, as if that were even possible. It requires drastically reducing spread. PPE used by everyone (again, we would need national leadership to provide production for this), and a temporary change in how business, church, and industry is conducted would end this spread sooner than faux quarantine.

 

[Penitent60]

If the priest is an alta Christus, it surely is wrong for the bishop to deny Christ His flock. I am sure someone can explain what I mean better. Anyhow, this plague is a very good reason why in the past priests administered to the flock even going against regulations contrary to this. And lastly, yet another reason for priests to be unmarried. An unmarried man is far more likely to sally forth than a married man who has an entanglement of obligations.

 

[1Lord1Faith]

The first is that those graphs are fake, in that they never have any actual data on them, or even marked along both axes.

That was a graphic not a graph. But anyway, it seemed to be presented as graph - so it was quite funny to me when I first saw it. But then I realized it was just a simple graphic trying to get a simple point across. I guess it’s sort of like a generic supply and demand graphic.

 

[phil19034]

The problem with the COVID-19 virus is that people can have it without knowing it.

MOST people who have it, have minor symptoms or NO symptoms. These carriers can & will continue to pass on the virus. Only by staying home can we quickly stop this outbreak.