Discuss: Confession Face to Face: Bad Idea?

[ConstantineTG]

We really, really need a “sarcasm” font! I don;t know what Fr. Z’s thing is here, but he was certainly on a rant.

I don’t know why to, from the OP, it seems that face to face confession and any physical contact with the priest seems to be a bad thing. Yes I understand there are some bad apples out there, but that doesn’t mean we ourselves start acting like every priest is a pedophile. I understand that priests also need to protect themselves from those who would take advantage of the situation and falsely accuse them for their own personal gain. But we also shouldn’t let popular opinion just change our traditions. There are ways to be able to achieve both.

 

[po18guy]

I don’t know why to, from the OP, it seems that face to face confession and any physical contact with the priest seems to be a bad thing. Yes I understand there are some bad apples out there, but that doesn’t mean we ourselves start acting like every priest is a pedophile. I understand that priests also need to protect themselves from those who would take advantage of the situation and falsely accuse them for their own personal gain. But we also shouldn’t let popular opinion just change our traditions. There are ways to be able to achieve both.

In 1987, I entered the Church in one of the (if not the) most liberal archdioceses in the US: Seattle. Only one time since 1987 has a Priest touched me during confession, and that was to keep me from falling off the chair I was seated on when I began uncontrollably shaking during absolution.

A perhaps rhetorical question: If one has neither experienced, nor heard of these “hands-on” confessions, and no one posts their personal experiences, how are posters supposed to know that it is even a concern?

 

[superamazingman]

In 1987, I entered the Church in one of the (if not the) most liberal archdioceses in the US: Seattle. Only one time since 1987 has a Priest touched me during confession, and that was to keep me from falling off the chair I was seated on when I began uncontrollably shaking during absolution.

A perhaps rhetorical question: If one has neither experienced, nor heard of these “hands-on” confessions, and no one posts their personal experiences, how are posters supposed to know that it is even a concern?

I’ve experienced it multiple times, and as I mentioned, almost all of the priests in my priest-friend’s class also did it, and many still do.

 

[ConstantineTG]

In 1987, I entered the Church in one of the (if not the) most liberal archdioceses in the US: Seattle. Only one time since 1987 has a Priest touched me during confession, and that was to keep me from falling off the chair I was seated on when I began uncontrollably shaking during absolution.

A perhaps rhetorical question: If one has neither experienced, nor heard of these “hands-on” confessions, and no one posts their personal experiences, how are posters supposed to know that it is even a concern?

That is my question, why is it even a concern? As long as confessions are done in public areas and not somewhere secluded like the priest’s windowless office.

I know a priest who had a glass window put on his office so that people outside can see what is happening inside.

I don’t see the reason why we should detest any contact with the priest. We call them “Father” for a reason.

 

[superamazingman]

That is my question, why is it even a concern? As long as confessions are done in public areas and not somewhere secluded like the priest’s windowless office.

Hmmmm… like a modern reconciliation room?

 

[po18guy]

I’ve experienced it multiple times, and as I mentioned, almost all of the priests in my priest-friend’s class also did it, and many still do.

So, is it a regional problem? Sounds like a “left coast” problem, but I have never seen or heard of it in the Seattle Archdiocese - and we had abuses here that caused our former Archbishop to be stripped of his authority and assigned an assistant Bishop.

 

[Ohana]

Angel Flight, I notice you have a picture of St Damien of Molokai on your tag. Great Saint! I was privileged to attend a one man show on the life of St. Damien. One of the scenes was of him having to shout his confession to a priest on the ship that came with supplies and to throw other people with leprosy overboard to swim to Molokai. What humility.

I have gone to confession both ways. I prefer face to face with a priest I know and particularly when I want spiritual guidance or direction. Behind the screen is still reception of the sacrament though so I suppose it does not matter in that regard. One thing I have noted is that face to face I have to acknowledge my sins more fully. To myself that is, and to God. That seems less true in the anonymous type, as if I am anonymous to God. Not so.

At our parish we have a reconciliation room but it has a screen option. Father says it is used, mostly by younger folks. Just glad they are going to confession some way.

 

[Franklin33]

great article… i personally like going in the confessional with the screen in place. I dont like the face to face… i did the face to face one time and i just didnt like it because in the confessional with the screen i was able to focus more on my sin and more on Jesus… Face to face, all im seeing in front of me is the priest and it actually distracts me. but, the most important thing is that we go to confession regardless of which method.

 

[coachkfan1]

Really, what is the point of face to face? To increase your humiliation? Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with it, but for those who prefer it, I ask why?

 

[Pug]

Really, what is the point of face to face? To increase your humiliation? Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with it, but for those who prefer it, I ask why?

I have two entirely separate reasons.

First, he is there in persona Christi, and we are body/soul creations, not just a soul. The more undetectable the priest is, the less he can function as Christ for me. To help you understand, imagine he was not there at all, but instead he was in China and I in Africa and the was an intercom for us to communicate. That would feel like he was absent altogether to me, even though I could hear his voice. And, to anticipate a question, no, this scenario would not set off the alarm I describe in the next paragraph.

Second, most (but not all, witness the picture I provided) confessional boxes violate my personal sense of modesty. Let me explain. In most confessional boxes, the priest and the penitent are very close physically, and they are in a dark, cramped location in private, whispering. Now, if the first time I had walked into one of those was as a child, perhaps I would find it a comforting “fort” or secret place, and the priest would seem kind and elderly and not set off any alarms. But I first stepped into one as a woman in my thirties. It was very uncomfortable being in such close quarters with a man near my age. I could even hear his breath. That is just too close for me. It reminded me of being in bed with my husband at night, talking briefly in the dark before sleep. Modern reconciliation rooms feel more like a standard male/female interaction than that, one much more appropriate for not spousal chats, more like what I might experience talking to my boss at work. It really helps if there is a window and lots of light and it is large enough to keep my distance from the priest. The picture I provided above would work fine, since the penitent is in a public place. The typical box would be fine if I were not an adult woman and he an adult man of no particular relation. I just don’t go in small closed secret dark places with a man. I keep a set distance that is no doubt established by my culture and upbringing.

 

[maltmom]

Really, what is the point of face to face? To increase your humiliation? Honestly I don’t see anything wrong with it, but for those who prefer it, I ask why?

Face to face is all I know. As I’ve said he knows it’s me. I don’t find it humiliating. I’ve confessed a few things that were embarrassing, but my need to confess them overshadowed my embarrassment. Once he sits in his chair, he closes his eyes, tilts his head to the side and gets the most loving, compassionate, peaceful look on his face. He expression doesn’t change. I see God’s love and mercy in that face.

For a number of reasons I’m changing churches. I have not gone to confession there yet. I’m afraid it will be overwhelming. I’m going to have to have the priest guide me. My previous confessions were in a very laid back setting. I repeated the words the priest gave me as an act of contrition. I’m sure I’ll get through it.

 

[Franklin33]

With all due respect, I think you are painting a picture that really isnt there… While, yes, the room is dark and its just the two of you in there, there is separation between the two of you… a wall with a screen. So, to compare that with “being in bed with your husband at night” is really out there… sorry. That priest thats in there is in there as Christ. There is def. no romantic activity going on. And like I said, in the confessional box, the two of you are separated by a wall… I just dont see your comparrison…

 

[superamazingman]

Second, most (but not all, witness the picture I provided) confessional boxes violate my personal sense of modesty. Let me explain. In most confessional boxes, the priest and the penitent are very close physically, and they are in a dark, cramped location in private, whispering. Now, if the first time I had walked into one of those was as a child, perhaps I would find it a comforting “fort” or secret place, and the priest would seem kind and elderly and not set off any alarms. But I first stepped into one as a woman in my thirties. It was very uncomfortable being in such close quarters with a man near my age. I could even hear his breath. That is just too close for me. It reminded me of being in bed with my husband at night, talking briefly in the dark before sleep. Modern reconciliation rooms feel more like a standard male/female interaction than that, one much more appropriate for not spousal chats, more like what I might experience talking to my boss at work. It really helps if there is a window and lots of light and it is large enough to keep my distance from the priest. The picture I provided above would work fine, since the penitent is in a public place. The typical box would be fine if I were not an adult woman and he an adult man of no particular relation. I just don’t go in small closed secret dark places with a man. I keep a set distance that is no doubt established by my culture and upbringing.

Do you sleep with a screen, curtain, and wooden wall between you and your husband with no way to touch or even see him?

 

[babochka]

I was being sarcastic, obviously. It is part of the Rite in the Byznatine tradition that the priest places his Epitrachelion on the head of the penitent and his hand on the head (as shown by the photos I posted earlier).

I do see some where some of the concern is coming from, but in the Byzantine form of the sacrament, those concerns are not really an issue. “Face to face” is not really the same as it is in the Roman Rite, in terms of being like a counseling session. Confession is done before an icon of Christ, in the presence of the priest. As mentioned above, touching is standard. I personally like absolution in the Byzantine Rite very much, and this is a primary reason why. We state that we are physical beings and that is reflected in our worship. The same idea is at work here. The priest says “I forgive you” in a personal way and the absolution is very personal. Confession, while private and “face to face” is out in the open, generally in the nave of the church.

I do think that reasonable precautions are sometimes appropriate. Unbeknownst to me, my 8 year old daughter and a friend approached a visiting priest for Confession after Divine Liturgy last year. He told her that an adult needed to come upstairs with them, so she came and got me. That seemed both prudent and appropriate to me.

 

[Angelsflight]

Face to face is all I know. As I’ve said he knows it’s me. I don’t find it humiliating. I’ve confessed a few things that were embarrassing, but my need to confess them overshadowed my embarrassment. Once he sits in his chair, he closes his eyes, tilts his head to the side and gets the most loving, compassionate, peaceful look on his face. He expression doesn’t change. I see God’s love and mercy in that face.

For a number of reasons I’m changing churches. I have not gone to confession there yet. I’m afraid it will be overwhelming. I’m going to have to have the priest guide me. My previous confessions were in a very laid back setting. I repeated the words the priest gave me as an act of contrition. I’m sure I’ll get through it.

All 3 of my confessors closed their eyes too…I always wonderred about why they did that…probably out of respect I guess too…to make it look like they are not staring at you sternly while you are pouring your heart out to them.

 

[Giggly_Giraffe]

I cower behind the veil and talk like a chipmunk in confession … Defiantly a grace I’m hoping He will bestow more upon me.

 

[Angelsflight]

I cower behind the veil and talk like a chipmunk in confession … Defiantly a grace I’m hoping He will bestow more upon me.

Talk like a chipmunk? lol

 

[Pug]

With all due respect, I think you are painting a picture that really isnt there… While, yes, the room is dark and its just the two of you in there, there is separation between the two of you… a wall with a screen. So, to compare that with “being in bed with your husband at night” is really out there… sorry. That priest thats in there is in there as Christ. There is def. no romantic activity going on. And like I said, in the confessional box, the two of you are separated by a wall… I just dont see your comparrison…

I experience it (but not as romantic). The box invites too much privacy and intimacy and emotional connection to the man. Other people are perfectly free to love it being in such close proximity. Maybe it would help if it didn’t have to be a bed. Compare it to sitting together close on a couch in the dark where no one can overhear, so one can tell secrets and desires and deepest thoughts, the types of reflections that night and darkness evoke. I just don’t really do that with my spouse on the couch, but rather in bed, so that is why I said "bed’.

superamazingman:

Do you sleep with a screen, curtain, and wooden wall between you and your husband with no way to touch or even see him?

In the style of boxes I’ve been in, you can see the priest through the screen just fine, and he is right up next to the screen, very close to it, and so am I if I kneel. It feels very proximate to me. The screen/grille does not in any way make me feel like he is not there, and the box creates a sense of secrecy and privacy.

I’m not worried about a priest doing me any harm! It just feels too close to a man for my comfort. I try not to be very close/intimate with men. It is an emotion thing, not a sex thing. It feels emotionally intimate, which is something I avoid with men. I find that helps with being emotionally faithful to my spouse.

I am happy that it works great for many, many other people. I think it might be great to feel free to allow someone that close (in spirit, in mind, that type of close). Let’s just say I had a bad upbringing and have a weak marriage and poor character, and blame it all on that.

 

[superamazingman]

I experience it (but not as romantic). The box invites too much privacy and intimacy and emotional connection to the man. Other people are perfectly free to love it being in such close proximity. Maybe it would help if it didn’t have to be a bed. Compare it to sitting together close on a couch in the dark where no one can overhear, so one can tell secrets and desires and deepest thoughts, the types of reflections that night and darkness evoke. I just don’t really do that with my spouse on the couch, but rather in bed, so that is why I said "bed’.

In the style of boxes I’ve been in, you can see the priest through the screen just fine, and he is right up next to the screen, very close to it, and so am I if I kneel. It feels very proximate to me. The screen/grille does not in any way make me feel like he is not there, and the box creates a sense of secrecy and privacy.

I’m not worried about a priest doing me any harm! It just feels too close to a man for my comfort. I try not to be very close/intimate with men. It is an emotion thing, not a sex thing. It feels emotionally intimate, which is something I avoid with men. I find that helps with being emotionally faithful to my spouse.

I am happy that it works great for many, many other people. I think it might be great to feel free to allow someone that close (in spirit, in mind, that type of close). Let’s just say I had a bad upbringing and have a weak marriage and poor character, and blame it all on that.

I see what you’re saying now. Being a guy, I can’t argue with what you’re saying from a personal experience, and I think I understand what you’re saying.

 

[g_ncl]

Confession Face to Face: Bad Idea?

No, it’s one of the best ideas of the “modernisation movement” of the past few decades. I don’t want anonymity: I am brave enough to sit down with a priest and confess my sins. I don’t need a grill: we won’t do anything we are not supposed to. I don’t need a curtain: he knows it’s me, I know it’s him - that’s part of the reason why I go exactly where I go to confess. If people want to have confessionals, they should have them. But there should be access to face-to-face confession, too.

Fr. Z in his blog talks about how priests can actually refuse to hear confessions face to face. If a priest ever did that, I would be very wary of him afterwards. (Is he afraid? What is he afraid of? Me? Does he suspect I will do something to him? Is he afraid of the situation? Is he not comfortable hearing confessions at all?).

However, it is great that Fr. Z urges priests to set aside more time to hear confessions.

Really, what is the point of face to face? To increase your humiliation?

I don’t find anything humiliating in it. I confess my sins to the Lord and He knows me anyway. The priest is there to accompany me in this holy encounter with the Lord, and help me when I find something difficult to say or phrase or if I just need a bit of help to make a good confession.