Discuss: Married Sexuality

[violet81]

I have nothing against your posts and what you do in your marriage is your business, but I honestly am concerned for you. I think that things may seem great for you, but I seriously worry that your routine is based on fear and lack of trust. Maybe it’s not conscious, but I think you are afraid you will lose your husband if you don’t make yourself available to him every day…and I don’t think you trust his ability to control himself if you don’t make yourself available to him every day. You aren’t giving him an opportunity to grow in his faith and spirituality. It reminds me of a parent that is scared that something will happen to their child and doesn’t trust their child to make good choices, so they watch their every move and give them little freedom to grow up.

Marriage is a discipline… while there is no formula that can guarantee perfect results that doesn’t mean a formulaic approach can’t help prevent cracks.

Secondly- the only thing I have seen as an argument is that abstinence can be good for a marriage. I have already said that we have practiced plenty of abstinence (NFP, travel, cancer, injury), we just don’t impose it on each other as a discipline since the obstacles of life already require plenty.

 

[baylee]

It seems very immature and catty to write this post. This is merely uses of manipulative shaming language in a projective manner. Also very uninformed, since violet81 has not advocated anything contrary to Catholic teaching.

I seem to remember something from Scott Hahn’s converstion story. When he was converting and his wife was not yet decided, then each resolved to daily (or frequent marital union) in order to preserve their marriage under the stressful situation.

You are wrong. Daily sex is not the teaching of the Church. Have you provided references to such a teaching?

I honestly have nothing against the OP and I mean well. I actually don’t disagree with her on everything she has said.

But if I’m being immature and catty and using manipulative shaming language in that post, then pot meet kettle. Because that’s how you come across.

 

[C_S_P_B]

Exactly what was *immature *CSPB? Because if you’re going to call a woman childish, I’d like to know what you call childish. I didn’t think she was being “childish”.

I’d be glad to point it out. Let me translate and simplify what you wrote:

I, as girl4, have an issue because girl1 said something to girl2 about girl3. If girl3 is going to do such and such, then she is a fair target, because girl3 is trying to tell girl2 what to do. For girl1 to say something to girl2 is ridiculous. It is all girl3’s fault because she started it and I, as girl4, am not going to be silent.

 

[C_S_P_B]

You are wrong. Daily sex is not the teaching of the Church. Have you provided references to such a teaching?

I honestly have nothing against the OP and I mean well. I actually don’t disagree with her on everything she has said.

But if I’m being immature and catty and using manipulative shaming language in that post, then pot meet kettle. Because that’s how you come across.

Please reread with greater reading comprehension, because I never said that daily sex was the teaching of the Church. Why would you even expect references to something I did not say? I was just pointing out that a well respected Catholic thought that frequency helped preserve his marriage, especially during a difficult time.

Now please explain exactly what I was wrong about.

BTW, men aren’t catty, we are just rude!

 

[baylee]

I’d be glad to point it out. Let me translate and simplify what you wrote:

I, as girl4, have an issue because girl1 said something to girl2 about girl3. If girl3 is going to do such and such, then she is a fair target, because girl3 is trying to tell girl2 what to do. For girl1 to say something to girl2 is ridiculous. It is all girl3’s fault because she started it and I, as girl4, am not going to be silent.

OK…I would say that your assessment of what happened shows your level of maturity. All I am saying is that when we post something on a message board we have to take responsibility for it. We put ourselves out there and are going to get varied responses. We also need to take a look at how we come across. I saw nothing wrong with Julianna’s response…it was not childish or catty… and I took issue with someone giving her a hard time for it. If she was childish or catty, I wouldn’t take issue with it. Why do you have such a problem with that?

 

[violet81]

I, as girl4, have an issue because girl1 said something to girl2 about girl3. If girl3 is going to do such and such, then she is a fair target, because girl3 is trying to tell girl2 what to do. For girl1 to say something to girl2 is ridiculous. It is all girl3’s fault because she started it and I, as girl4, am not going to be silent.

Am I girl1 or girl3? I am bad at word problems.

 

[violet81]

OK…I would say that your assessment of what happened shows your level of maturity. All I am saying is that when we post something on a message board we have to take responsibility for it. We put ourselves out there and are going to get varied responses. We also need to take a look at how we come across. I saw nothing wrong with Julianna’s response…it was not childish or catty… and I took issue with someone giving her a hard time for it. If she was childish or catty, I wouldn’t take issue with it. Why do you have such a problem with that?

I was trying to keep things mostly in the realm of the theoretical…and other posters wanted to make it far more personal that it needed to be. I don’t want to talk about my FEELINGS, nor do I want to have to defend my dignity and self-respect against accusations of not having enough of either… I want to talk about whether the formula is a beneficial antidote to possible marriage problems.

 

[violet81]

OK…I would say that your assessment of what happened shows your level of maturity.

I thought it showed his sense of humor. CSPB always breaths fresh air into a thread with his wit.

 

[C_S_P_B]

Am I girl1 or girl3? I am bad at word problems.

girl1=searching04
girl2=Julianna
gilr3=violet81
girl4=baylee

I had to concentrate hard to translate the paragraph.

 

[twoangels]

Marriage is a discipline… while there is no formula that can guarantee perfect results that doesn’t mean a formulaic approach can’t help prevent cracks.

Secondly- the only thing I have seen as an argument is that abstinence can be good for a marriage. I have already said that we have practiced plenty of abstinence (NFP, travel, cancer, injury), we just don’t impose it on each other as a discipline since the obstacles of life already require plenty.

Violet at this point I don’t think I disagree with you. Definitely taking away sex as a form of punishment is immoral. I am a little confused because my original impression of what you were arguing before seems quite different to what you are currently saying. I however think I’m confusing multiple threads with each other.

 

[m_crane]

Wow!

How about if the husband wants relations,(and there is no reason not to) they have it.
And if the wife wants relations(and there is no reason not to) they have it.
If they both want to(no reason not to) they have it.
If they both don’t want to, then they don’t have relations.

Wow! It’s not that complicated.

 

[freerf]

Maybe women that like sex and frequently engage in the marital union with their husbands are threatening. Such “favors” are often used by wives as means to control husbands, and giving up such powerful control is a scary thing, it might even lead to general happiness and husbands appreciating their wives more!

Although I don’t agree with the tone, the idea is a fresh one. I think there may be some truth to it.

The idea of wanting to please your husband is something many here are not comfortable with. Some women have even expressed that they think the OP must be “afraid” of her husband or enslaved in some way. Wowzers!

CSPB is providing a somewhat harsh reality check here: many men are unhappy with their sex lives. The inappropriate answer, the uncaring and unchristian answer is “so what”? But unfortuantely, that seems all too common these days.

The OP perhaps has taken the opposite extreme, but I guarentee you this: her husband is probably enjoying it.

 

[jilly4ski]

Although I don’t agree with the tone, the idea is a fresh one. I think there may be some truth to it.

The idea of wanting to please your husband is something many here are not comfortable with. Some women have even expressed that they think the OP must be “afraid” of her husband or enslaved in some way. Wowzers!

CSPB is providing a somewhat harsh reality check here: many men are unhappy with their sex lives. The inappropriate answer, the uncaring and unchristian answer is “so what”? But unfortuantely, that seems all too common these days.

The OP perhaps has taken the opposite extreme, but I guarentee you this: her husband is probably enjoying it.

I thought I was keeping up with this thread and no where did I see women say anything to suggest that they did not want to please their husbands or that such a goal was something to deride.

Rather I see a premise that most people base their sex life on communication between the spouses. When one spouse expresses a desire the other lovingly complies unless there is a real reason not to. To these posters, scheduling sex every night without asking either oneself or one’s spouse if it agreeable at that time seems foreign and contrary to the values their marriage is based on (communication, love, consideration, etc.).

Of course in the progression of this thread it seems like the OP actually does something similar in practice, but the words of her theory (as posted in the original post) come off as a couple has to strive for relations every night in order to not deprive the other spouse of his or her marital rights.

 

[violet81]

Of course in the progression of this thread it seems like the OP actually does something similar in practice, but the words of her theory (as posted in the original post) come off as a couple has to strive for relations every night in order to not deprive the other spouse of his or her marital rights.

I advocate for both spouses to make sexual availability the default of marriage. Unavailability should be the exception. I think that when the spouse with the higher drive doesn’t have to ask it strengthens the marriage, because sometimes being the one that always has to ask can make a person feel like a beggar.

But… since there is no official church teaching that goes into specifics I can’t argue that my way is best for everyone…I can only give my specific reasoning based on my own interpretation of the Bible and Church teaching and statistics…in case it proves useful to someone else.

 

[C_S_P_B]

Although I don’t agree with the tone, the idea is a fresh one. I think there may be some truth to it.

The idea of wanting to please your husband is something many here are not comfortable with. Some women have even expressed that they think the OP must be “afraid” of her husband or enslaved in some way. Wowzers!

CSPB is providing a somewhat harsh reality check here: many men are unhappy with their sex lives. The inappropriate answer, the uncaring and unchristian answer is “so what”? But unfortuantely, that seems all too common these days.

The OP perhaps has taken the opposite extreme, but I guarentee you this: her husband is probably enjoying it.

disagreeable tone…harsh… you got me pegged! Hmm, would I rather be liked or listened to (respected)? This is a no brainer. Most men would accept this trade off any day.

Women should try this at home. Wives should say **“I was p*issed off. Your actions **made me angry. But I have been thinking about what you said. You can be harsh but are usually fair. Maybe I understand things better now. I hope we both keep trying and do not lose faith in each other.”

This can be used for anything and does not (necessarily) relate to sex. Notice what was said and what was not said. Notice the de-escalation. It is a relief for a man when his wife is upset at his actions but not specifically at him. Acknowledgement works too! No apology was offered and bad behavior was not accepted. It was brief and didn’t go on and on and on and on and rehash and retrace and reiterate and repeat and re-emphasize.

Sometimes longer is fine but most times a man just cannot follow the discourse and gets lost in the words. Then what happens?.. “Are you listening to me? You NEVER listen! You don’t care about me because all you care about is yourself. You ALWAYS do this!..blah, blah, blah, yada, yada yada.” (Sorry for the seeming condescending tone, but really that is all I had the fortitude to listen to and so had to paraphrase the rest with blahs and yadas)

Seriously, write it down and read it if you have to. He won’t care! Learn to unspiral a situation. Life is not all about sex, but spice sure adds flavor (or is a satisfying dessert)!

 

[GFarmer]

II want to talk about whether the formula is a beneficial antidote to possible marriage problems.

I for one will endorse violet81’s formula for marriage success. When we were first married we had sex daily or more! After 3 children, a large farm and off farm career, and 17 or 18 years of marriage we were down to maybe twice a month. We were also cross-way’s in our thinking about raising our kids, running the farm, mad about the little things always and always going after the other to prove our point!

One morning about 6 years ago I was reading on the internet about a recent study of married sexuality and marital happiness. It talked about frequency of sex and normal for married couples of our age was about 6 times a month and they reported that they were on average “happy”. At that point of my life I would have been happy with that too! What really caught my eye was that there was a comment that there were these outliers in every age group that having sex almost daily and reported off the chart marital happiness scores…thinking back on those first years of marriage I began to think about the differences from those first year to then.

The reasons we were not having sex were things as simple as not going to bed at the same time and as major as us not supporting the other with decisions about the kids and the farm and letting the daily irritants become more than they really are (being exhausted and crabby!).

After reading the article I thought I would try an experiment (to be fair not having sex often was a two way street she has hardly ever in our marriage said absolutely not to sex, but that being said, I maybe knew better than to ask sometimes!) I would attempt to have sex daily for a month and see what changed, I also had been thinking about my actions with the kids and other interactions and had decided to change my behavior in that regard at about the same time.

After a couple of weeks she finally asked what was up? I told her about the article! She laughed, read it and we are still at it! It’s not just the sex, but the behavior change on my part then has caused a behavior change on her part, the sex is like the glue that keeps us together and allows the stress and irritants of the day to melt way.

She has become a leader in her industry and grown our business, I have weathered some awful tough storms in my career and our relationship has been solid and provided us the support to grow as individuals and a family.

If anyone would have told me 5 years ago what was going to happen in my life both good and bad over the next 5 years I would have told them that they were nuts! Without the changes that we made 6 years ago I doubt the marriage would have withstood the bad elements and we would not have had the good either!

 

[searching04]

Wasn’t it violet81 who started this thread discussing how often she and her husband engage in relations…not to mention the numerous posts that seem to push the idea that their frequency is what’s best for married couples?

It was and is a topic of discussion, not a discussion of one couple’s life. There’s a difference. And no one is “pushing” that frequency is right for everyone, but there surely is “pushing” that it is somehow wrong. We’re all big boys and girls - make up your own mind if it is right for you (in general) or not, but don’t condemn others for it.

 

[searching04]

My issue was with searching04 giving Julianna a call out for caring what the OP’s sex life is like. If a person is going to push their sex life online then she is going to get responses that she may or may not like…especially when she seems to be pushing that her way is the “right” way (which, btw, is condescending to those who don’t do it the “right” way). To slap someone on the wrist for questioning the OP is ridiculous. The OP put herself out there. I’m not shaming her but I’m not going to coddle her either.

Julianna wasn’t caring for the OP’s sex life; she was putting her down for it and wanted to be sure the OP’s husband learned a lesson - she had no right to do so.

Violet81 has not pushed her sex life; she stated what she believes. The people pushing back are obviously offended for some reason and/or disagree with her. Fine. Live your own life. But don’t be condescending and sanctimonious to others about it. It is not demeaning or “rolling over onto her back” if a woman believes in frequent relations with her husband. Who is anyone to say and judge otherwise? For that matter, who is anyone to say less sex is wrong? No one, in either case.

 

[searching04]

A number of posters have shown you that your thinking is NOT Church teaching…so how can it be “right”? It might work for your marriage, but that doesn’t mean it is right for all. I think it is your inability to re-evaluate the latter that has caused some posters to get annoyed with you…and come off condescending.

Where in the he** in church teaching does it say ANYWHERE how frequently couples are to have relations? WHERE? The fact is it does not. It talks moderation and all that; it does NOT give teachings on frequency. And no where has the OP said anything about it being right for all. It is people’s assumptions like this that causes some of us to feel the others are condescending.

I have nothing against your posts and what you do in your marriage is your business, but I honestly am concerned for you. I think that things may seem great for you, but I seriously worry that your routine is based on fear and lack of trust. Maybe it’s not conscious, but I think you are afraid you will lose your husband if you don’t make yourself available to him every day…and I don’t think you trust his ability to control himself if you don’t make yourself available to him every day. You aren’t giving him an opportunity to grow in his faith and spirituality. It reminds me of a parent that is scared that something will happen to their child and doesn’t trust their child to make good choices, so they watch their every move and give them little freedom to grow up.

I hope I don’t sound mean violet. I really wonder whether this is what’s best for you, your husband and your marriage in the long run.

 

[searching04]

Am I girl1 or girl3? I am bad at word problems.

Well, hell - I think I’m girl 4! My wife is going to be so disappointed after all this time!