Discussion on the Koran or Quran

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👍 Well stated. Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I’ve always admired your posts.

Best regards,
Pam
I have of this writing 19 posts and have been posting for about 24 hours - you’re tempting me with pride 😛
 
Christine, are you asking me, or our muslim members?
Pam-
Are you implying only Muslims can read the Koran and what it says? You are more familiar with Koran than I. What does it say? The Koran makes my brain go :hypno:
Since you are have already gone :hypno: Just tell me:)
 
Keep on posting my brother/sister, keep on posting. 👍

May God be at your side and guide you always.
👍

I said in one thread the Islam remindes me of LDS. One man got a revelation, and then lost the source. He never performed any miracles to prove his prophet status. We’re just supposed to take his word for it.:rolleyes:
 
👍

I said in one thread the Islam remindes me of LDS. One man got a revelation, and then lost the source. He never performed any miracles to prove his prophet status. We’re just supposed to take his word for it.:rolleyes:
The Manichaeans were like that as well. 🙂 Their founder also claimed to have been visited by an angel. I guess they never heard of the warning from Paul in 2 Corinthians about angels of light…
 
Pam-
Are you implying only Muslims can read the Koran and what it says? You are more familiar with Koran than I. What does it say? The Koran makes my brain go :hypno:
Since you are have already gone :hypno: Just tell me:)
Oh gosh my dear, I just didn’t know if you wanted me to reply or some-one else. Hey, sometimes I’m not the “brightest” star in the sky… 😛

Oh yes, I do have my “slow” days and I think today is one of them… ahem…

OK back to the topic at hand…

What was the question again… 😛 😊
 
What does the Koran teach about Ishmael and Esau?
In a nut shell, the koran states that **Ishmael was to **BE **sacrificied by Abraham **and NOT Isaac.

And mohamad comes from the Ishmael line family.

Esau is Jacob’s older twin brother. Is this the Biblical person you want to know about?

His name in Hebrew means “hairy”, because he was a man of much hair. He was also called Edom, which means “red”, because he also looked red.
 
saying that Christ quoting the Torah and not the Quran as a theological difference is silly…of course the Quran had not been revealed at the time of Christ…

I asked about theological contradictions (not historical ) between the Quran and the Torah (five books of Moses)

still looking for an answer
 
The Manichaeans were like that as well. 🙂 Their founder also claimed to have been visited by an angel. I guess they never heard of the warning from Paul in 2 Corinthians about angels of light…
How do you keep up with all this stuff? In spite of corrections, the same heresies seem to keep trying to play over and over again.
 
saying that Christ quoting the Torah and not the Quran as a theological difference is silly…of course the Quran had not been revealed at the time of Christ…
No one said Jesus had to quote the Koran. What people said was that the New Testament quotes the Old Testament many many times with direct verses and passages. Say what you want about the apostles and Christ, they knew their Jewish scripture.

Then suddenly we skip to the Koran, the supposed third revelation, and the delivery is different. No longer are we quoting directly from the previous revelation, but we’re just stating our own personal revelation. No direct references or citations, just a name or vague reference to an event here and there. Again, I must ask, why did God and the faithful suddenly change their delivery?
I asked about theological contradictions (not historical ) between the Quran and the Torah (five books of Moses)
still looking for an answer
You asked that in response to questions - in other words, you presented the oldest logical fallacy in the book, the non sequitor, which is used when someone doesn’t want to answer the question presented. 🙂
 
I asked about theological contradictions (not historical ) between the Quran and the Torah (five books of Moses)

still looking for an answer
This is off the top of my head, but the Qur’an’s message claims to be universalistic, wheras the Torah’s is aimed at the Jews? Just throwing that out there for the purposes of discussion.
 
saying that Christ quoting the Torah and not the Quran as a theological difference is silly…of course the Quran had not been revealed at the time of Christ…

I asked about theological contradictions (not historical ) between the Quran and the Torah (five books of Moses)

still looking for an answer
Read Byz Wolf’s post 40. It’s the basis of the Judeo-Christian understanding of God. He made a Covenant with Abraham through Isaac. The Law details God’s Covenant with His people.

Does Islam teach this?
 
This is off the top of my head, but the Qur’an’s message claims to be universalistic, wheras the Torah’s is aimed at the Jews? Just throwing that out there for the purposes of discussion.
That is not a theological difference.
 
saying that Christ quoting the Torah and not the Quran as a theological difference is silly…of course the Quran had not been revealed at the time of Christ…

I asked about theological contradictions (not historical ) between the Quran and the Torah (five books of Moses)

still looking for an answer
The biblical story of Moses meeting his wife:

When Pharaoh heard of this, he tried to kill Moses, but Moses fled from Pharaoh and went to live in Midian, where he sat down by a well.

Now a priest of Midian had seven daughters, and they came to draw water and fill the troughs to water their father’s flock. Some shepherds came along and drove them away, but Moses got up and came to their rescue and watered their flock.

When the girls returned to Reuel their father, he asked them, “Why have you returned so early today?”

They answered, "An Egyptian rescued us from the shepherds.

He even drew water for us and watered the flock." “And where is he?” he asked his daughters. “Why did you leave him? Invite him to have something to eat.”

Moses agreed to stay with the man, who gave his daughter Zipporah to Moses in marriage.

Zipporah gave birth to a son, and Moses named him Gershom, saying, “I have become an alien in a foreign land.”

Exodus 2:15-22

The quranic version of Moses meeting his wife:

And when he arrived at the watering (place) in Madyan, he found there a group of men watering (their flocks), and besides them he found two women who were keeping back (their flocks).

He said: “What is the matter with you?” They said: “We cannot water (our flocks) until the shepherds take back (their flocks): And our father is a very old man.”

So he watered (their flocks) for them; then he turned back to the shade, and said: “O my Lord! truly am I in (desperate) need of any good that Thou dost send me!” Afterwards one of the (damsels) came (back) to him, walking bashfully.

She said: “My father invites thee that he may reward thee for having watered (our flocks) for us.” So when he came to him and narrated the story, he said: “Fear thou not: (well) hast thou escaped from unjust people.”

Said one of the (damsels): “O my (dear) father! engage him on wages: truly the best of men for thee to employ is the (man) who is strong and trusty”…

He said: "I intend to wed one of these my daughters to thee, on condition that thou serve me for eight years; but if thou complete ten years, it will be (grace) from thee.

But I intend not to place thee under a difficulty: thou wilt find me, indeed, if Allah wills, one of the righteous."

He said: “Be that (the agreement) between me and thee: whichever of the two terms I fulfil, let there be no ill-will to me. Be Allah a witness to what we say.” Sura 28:23-28

The stories clearly refer to the same incident, but plenty of differences exist between them. Two aspects are particularly striking:

In Exodus, Moses meets seven women at the well, all seven being daughters of one man.

In the Qur’an it is said explicitly that they were two women, also daughters of the same man.

In both cases, their father offers Moses one of the daughters for marriage.

However, in the Qur’an, the father asks a payment for marrying his daughter.

The condition is that Moses has to work for him for eight or ten years.

Note that there are two terms of service mentioned, although they are alternative numbers. In the Qur’an we have two women and two terms, contrary to the biblical account.

Theologically teaching, the koran story does not concur with the Biblical one. Since the 5 books of Moses were written first and they were already about 2000+ years old, the koran is false.
 
This is off the top of my head, but the Qur’an’s message claims to be universalistic, wheras the Torah’s is aimed at the Jews? Just throwing that out there for the purposes of discussion.
As far as I know, teaching the Torah to non-Jews was not forbidden…the Torah was a light to the world, and also , a non-Jew can be saved if he kept the Nohaide laws…
Read Byz Wolf’s post 40. It’s the basis of the Judeo-Christian understanding of God. He made a Covenant with Abraham through Isaac. The Law details God’s Covenant with His people.

Does Islam teach this?
Yes
2:40 O Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and fulfil your Covenant with Me as I fulfil My **Covenant **with you, and fear none but Me.

2:83 And remember We took a Covenant from the Children of Israel (to this effect): Worship none but Allah. treat with kindness your parents and kindred, and orphans and those in need; speak fair to the people; be steadfast in prayer; and practise regular charity. Then did ye turn back, except a few among you, and ye backslide (even now)

2:84 And remember We took your Covenant (to this effect): Shed no blood amongst you, nor turn out your own people from your homes: and this ye solemnly ratified, and to this ye can bear witness

2:248 And (further) their Prophet said to them: “A Sign of his authority is that there shall come to you the Ark of the Covenant , with (an assurance) therein of security from your Lord, and the relics left by the family of Moses and the family of Aaron, carried by angels. In this is a symbol for you if ye indeed have faith.”

5:12 Allah did aforetime take a Covenant from the Children of Israel, and we appointed twelve captains among them. And Allah said: "I am with you: if ye (but) establish regular prayers, practise regular charity, believe in my apostles, honour and assist them, and loan to Allah a beautiful loan, verily I will wipe out from you your evils, and admit you to gardens with rivers flowing beneath; but if any of you, after this, resisteth faith, he hath truly wandered from the path or rectitude.

these are just few examples showing God’s covenant to bani Israel…you will find more if you read the Quran
 
One major theological difference is God’s Name.

In the Old Testament, God calls Himself “I am who am”, or YHWH in the Hebrew tongue:
Exodus 3
13 “But,” said Moses to God, “when I go to the Israelites and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ if they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what am I to tell them?”
14 God replied, “I am who am.” Then he added, “This is what you shall tell the Israelites: I AM sent me to you.”
15 God spoke further to Moses, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. "This is my name forever; this is my title for all generations.
The Name YHWH was so honored by Jews that they did not write it, but substituted it for another name: The LORD, or Adonai in the Hebrew tongue:
Genesis 2
4 Such is the story of the heavens and the earth at their creation. At the time when the LORD God made the earth and the heavens -
5 while as yet there was no field shrub on earth and no grass of the field had sprouted, for the LORD God had sent no rain upon the earth and there was no man to till the soil,
6 but a stream was welling up out of the earth and was watering all the surface of the ground -
7 the LORD God formed man out of the clay of the ground and blew into his nostrils the breath of life, and so man became a living being.
Exodus 3
15 God spoke further to Moses, "Thus shall you say to the Israelites: The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob, has sent me to you. "This is my name forever; this is my title for all generations.
Leviticus 11
44 For I, the LORD, am your God; and you shall make and keep yourselves holy, because I am holy. You shall not make yourselves unclean, then, by any swarming creature that crawls on the ground.
Jeremiah 35
17 Now, therefore, says the LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel: I will bring upon Judah and all the citizens of Jerusalem every evil that I threatened; because when I spoke they did not obey, when I called they did not answer.
18 But to the company of the Rechabites Jeremiah said: Thus says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Since you have obeyed the command of Jonadab, your father, kept all his commands and done everything he commanded you,
19 thus therefore says the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel: Never shall there fail to be a descendant of Jonadab, Rechab’s son, standing in my service.
In the Qu’ran, God calls Himself “God”, or Allah in the Arabic tongue:
[3.2] Allah, (there is) no god but He, the Everliving, the Self-subsisting by Whom all things subsist
The name of Allah is believed to be the proper name of God by Muslims. Where there should be “God” in English translations of the Qu’ran, there is instead the name Allah:
[2.244] And fight in the way of Allah, and know that Allah is Hearing, Knowing.
[3.19] Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning.
[3.51] Surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.
[5.97] Allah has made the Kaaba, the sacred house, a maintenance for the people, and the sacred month and the offerings and the sacrificial animals with garlands; this is that you may know that Allah knows whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth, and that Allah is the Knower of all things.
This is a major theological difference between the Old Testament and the Qu’ran. I lovingly showed the difference in this little chart:

 
no where in the Quran you will find (My name is Allah) … it’s the Arabic term of God

so no , I don’t think “Allah” is His proper name ,despite what other Muslims say
You are either lying or you are the dumbest Muslim in the world, and for your sake I’m bettig it’s the former. Go take your lies elsewhere, Hadi!
 
no where in the Quran you will find (My name is Allah) … it’s the Arabic term of God

so no , I don’t think “Allah” is His proper name ,despite what other Muslims say
You are kidding right? What then is allahs “proper name”
 
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