Discussion on the Qu'ran and Hadith

[R_not]

More on sharia:

Miscellaneous items in sharia:

**Kasem: Beat a child (10+) for not praying and fasting (f1.2, p.109).

Not praying is unbelief; penalty is execution (f1.3, p.109).

Pray wearing ankle length shirt and a turban (f5.7, p.122).

Use a tooth stick before every prayer/reciting the Qur’an (e3.2, p.57).

Drinking alcoholic drink—strike 40 stripes…o16.2

Muslims cannot eat meat slaughtered by Zoroastrians, apostates, idol worshippers, and the Christians of the desert Arab tribe (j17.2, p.364).

FP: Apostasy and jihad?

Kasem: Making sarcasm is leaving Islam (o8.0, p.595).

Kill the apostates of Islam (o8.1, o8.2, p.596).

No indemnity required for killing an apostate (o8.4, p.596).

No expiation is required for killing an apostate of Islam (o5.4, p.593).

Jihad means to war against the non-Muslims (lesser jihad, based on 2:216, 4:89, 9:36 ) (o9.0; p.599).

Jihad is warfare to establish the religion of Islam (greater Jihad)…p.599

Basis for Jihad:

(1) fighting is prescribed (2:216).

(2) slay them wherever you find them (4:89).

(3) fight the idolatry utterly ( 9:36 ).

Jihad is a communal obligation (o9.1; p.600).

Jihad is obligatory for every Muslim who is able to perform it, male or female (o9.3, p.601).

Caliph makes war upon the Jews, the Christians, the Zoroastrians……by first inviting them to enter Islam, if no success then pay jizya, if no jizya then kill them (o9.8, p.602).**

Take note of that last item. This is what da’wa is all about - calling us to islam before the violence. It is what bin Laden has done, and this is what the muslims are doing now in our Western countries. Bin Laden is just more honest (our idea of honesty) than the ‘moderate’ muslim in what da’wa is all about and when/where they are doing it.

 

[JLSamuel818]

Beating a wife is allowed (Doi, p.130).

Out of curiosity… what if she doesn’t pray?

When making love, no talking (r32.7, p.767).

Entering toilet—left foot first; exiting toilet right foot first, offer prayer (e9.1, p.76).

LOL. I can only imagine.

“Dear Jesus, bless my poop and bowel movements. Amen”

After urinating men squeeze the penis with the left hand from base to head (of penis); women squeeze the front (vulva) between thumb and forefinger; in both cases three times (e9.1(11), p.76).

But what about "Human private parts are impure; do not touch them with your hands (e7.4, p.74)???

 

[R_not]

Out of curiosity… what if she doesn’t pray?



LOL. I can only imagine.

“Dear Jesus, bless my poop and bowel movements. Amen”

But what about "Human private parts are impure; do not touch them with your hands (e7.4, p.74)???

Here is the scary part - this is what they want us subjugated to in our own lands. They have a lot of non-muslims subjugated to them now and just recently there has been another problem between the Copt Christians and the Egyptians because sharia laws don’t allow for anyone to do what the Copts are trying to do.

• dhimmi (subjugated ones) are overtaxed, persecuted, killed, are forced to hide their religion, not allowed to carry a Bible - wear a cross - carry a rosary, not allowed to build or repair churches/temples/etc.

We should support the Copts and look at them as brave beyond comprehension. Take note the silence of the so called ‘moderates’ about this, the bombing in India, etc. And if there is any of them that speak up it is to spout that they are the victims, the usual tactic to deflect who are the real victims of islamic imperialism. (jihadwatch.org has many stories of violence for the past week alone!)

And this junk that they are not responsible for individuals - they show up in thousands for a parade to flaunt islam, but no one shows up when a Dr. Zuhdi Jasser has protested the 9/11, 7/11, or any of the muslim violence anywhere. And Mr. Jasser is an outcast now and they draw cartoons of him as a dog. (My comment: I doubt most ‘moderates’ now)

muslims threatening Copts over Church

Some are already trying to twist the facts of the bombing in India already - as they have done in Lebanon, the Balkans, Africa, and anywhere muslims attack others.

Abdurahman Alamoudi, Former leader American Muslim Council (AMC) in Dec 1996
‘We have a chance, in America, to be the moral leadership of America. The problem is when? It will happen, it will happen, praish allah the exalted. I have no doubt in my mind. It depends on me and you, either we do it now or we do it after a 100 years, but this country will become a muslim country…’

Abu Mujahid, spokesperson islamic Thinkers Society (ITS)
‘allah does say that the whole world will eventually be under his rule. The rule will come down to where everyone obeys the laws of god (sharia), as simple as that.’

Yousef Khattab, supporter:
-‘islam will dominate, this is what it will be.’
-‘We want to see sharia here and it will be. The flag of , “there is no god other than allah, muhammed is the messenger of god”, will be (god willing) on the White House, if thats where we choose it to be. It just takes time, the American people are waking up now.’
-‘There is no compulsion in islam, that means, we cannot force it on you, but we will force islamic (sharia), god willing.’

Omar Bakri Muhammad, Former leader Al-Muhajiroun
‘Jihad is a foreign policy to expand the islamic authority all over the world.’

Abu Jahya al-Libi, Al Qaeda leader
‘According to our belief, the whole world must be under the rule of islam without exception, even a single grain of soil.’

 

[Eucharisted]

Let’s hear what Muslims have to say about the verses.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/ Peace

… I am sick of seeing my Jesus referred to as a mere prophet .

Muslims respect Jesus (p) as a blessed messenger of God Almighty . We don’t use any nasty words against him. When we utter / write his name , we use some respectful words like may peace of God Almighty be upon him. Still u feel sick . Now try to feel my pain .

Few Christians even deny to write our Prophet’s full name . They regularly address him as Mo . Do I need to mention the nasty words they write about him ? If I can tolerate these , why can’t u stay here ? I don’t read some Christians posts ; u may avoid reading our posts & visit the Catholic section only

.

As for our Blessed Lady, I find the verses in the Koran insulting to her. .

which verse is insulting ?

 

[R_not]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/ Peace

Muslims respect Jesus (p) as a blessed messenger of God Almighty . We don’t use any nasty words against him. When we utter / write his name , we use some respectful words like may peace of God Almighty be upon him. Still u feel sick . Now try to feel my pain .

Few Christians even deny to write our Prophet’s full name . They regularly address him as Mo . Do I need to mention the nasty words they write about him ? If I can tolerate these , why can’t u stay here ? I don’t read some Christians posts ; u may avoid reading our posts & visit the Catholic section only

.

which verse is insulting ?

You respect a man who was an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, assasin, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord.

Do not expect the same from others who think that this guy, if he lived today, should be thrown in prison and left to rot. Since he lived so long ago - the question is how can so many think that this guy is something worthy of respect??!!

And it is beyond any excuses anymore since you live in the West and have ample opportunity to do research on mohammed’s life and words.

This is why I don’t believe there are too many true ‘moderate’ muslims when I read nonsensical posts on islam. I do believe that there are muslims like Dr. Zuhdi Jasser who want to stop the violence, but even there - he is now an outcast and muslims draw pictures of him being a dog. And we know mohammed’s paranoia about dogs and making threats against muslims if they have one of God’s creatures - a dog - in their possession.

 

[R_not]

Here is a video of the nonsense of jihad. The effects of jihadi’s videos on young muslims.
It is a little over 45 minutes - just to let you know before you click on it. The violent jihad is mentioned 97% of the time over the other jihad such as, inner struggle, in the koran. This should tell us all the importance of violence in islam as to how often it is mentioned in their koran.

 

[planten]

Ok, the sense I see in islam… looting, killing, stealing, lusting, enslaving, having people killed if they try to leave islam or if they bad mouth islam, and even their own women are treated poorly. Don’t give me the junk that they are elevated or else I will show you a pic of a woman hanging because she didn’t have four witnesses to her rape. Like the rapist was going to bring a ‘garden party’ to his deeds so he could be hanged instead!

In the koran there are surahs about jihad with 97% of them being for the violent jihad and 3% talking about the lesser jihads with the ‘inner struggle’ among those. And ‘moderates’ supposed and support the violent jihadists and wage jihad by deception, and any means necessary.

We don’t see any mass movement to stop the violence, to even speak out against it. Instead a lone muslim speaks out against it and tries to form a group and becomes an outcast while muslims (those so called ‘moderates’) draw cartoons depicting him as a dog. That is Dr. Zuhdi Jasser treatment by ‘moderates’.

Instead we see this from ‘moderates’. muslims are encouraged to help in the cause of islam by

• aggressive participation in countries where political offices are open to all (while it is not true in countries where sharia laws rule - non-muslims cannot even join the military)
• form support groups to further inroads into
  • education
  • the media
  • government agencies (CIA, FBI, Pentagon, etc)
  • entertainment industry

And we see this being done on forums like this where muslims give us abrogated surahs, and also give us the usual stuff when we show them their own text.

None of the above can be done by non-muslims in lands where sharia law rules.

How can so called ‘moderate’, or ‘peaceful’ muslims follow a guy such as mohammed? Even their own koran has the violence to wage against non-muslims. It is a very, violent book against the non-muslims and is not very holy for that reason. But, it is very holey, because of mohammed changing his mind so often, or forgetting what he said previously. He even blamed allah for that too.

Allah’s Apostle heard a man reciting the Qur’an at night, and said, 'May Allah bestow His Mercy on him, as he has reminded me of such-and-such Verses of such-and-such Suras, which I was caused to forget."

and;

“The Prophet (pbuh) said, 'Why does anyone of the people say, ‘I have forgotten such-and-such Verses (of the Qur’an)?’ He, in fact, is caused
(by Allah) to forget.”’ (Sahih Bukhari: Vol. 6, Book 61, No. 558-559)

In yet another account, it is reported that Muhammad had been bewitched so as to hallucinate things which he believed were actually happening:

“Magic was worked on the Prophet so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing…”
(Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 54, Number 490, Narrated 'Aisha)

Here is an example of a difference between muslim countries and ours in the Constitutions:

• Article Eight:
  "Allah is its target, the prophet is its model, the Koran (Qur’an) its constitution: Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of wishes:
• Article Thirteen, paragraph 4:
  “There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad.”
• Article Fifteen, paragraph 3:
  “It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis.” (Source: Hamas Covenant - 1988)

Article (12) “Complete liberation of Palestine, and eradication of Zionist economic, political, military and cultural existence.”

Article (17) Armed public revolution is the inevitable method to liberating Palestine."

Article (19) “Armed struggle is a strategy and not a tactic, and the Palestinian Arab People’s armed revolution is a decisive factor in the liberation fight and in uprooting the Zionist’s existence, and this struggle will not cease unless the Zionist state is demolished and Palestine is completely liberated.”

Article (22) “Opposing any political solution offered as an alternative to demolishing the Zionist occupation in Palestine, as well as any project intended to liquidate the Palestinian case or impose any international mandate on its people.”

Source: PLO Charter

Are all of you in so much fear that you cannot do/say anything even in our countries in the West? I don’t believe that since the increase in demands that we become more and more sharia compliant are coming from so called ‘moderates’. And where sharia laws are so are the highest human rights abuses with non-muslims and muslim women faring the worst.

Extra long posts are all ignored. Niether read nor replied.

 

[planten]

Now keep in mind that we have been reminded that the order muslims go by are the koran, sunnah and then the hadiths. Well, sharia laws are based on the first two. And here are some nonsense about that too. The nonsense is not necessarily that muslims believe they are superior (we should take that as a threat), but to show some of the nonsensical laws of sharia - that no mass of ‘moderates’ in any country can vote on to replace, change, delete, etc.

sharia law article

Some quotes to realize this is why muslim’s goals are to not necessarily to convert us, but to subjugate us and make sharia law the laws of our land to replace our Constitution.

**Kasem: To be sure, we must understand why Sharia is the life-force of Islam, and why Islam must impose (by force, if needed) Sharia to the entire world. Once we grasp this tenet, then we can understand how and why myriad specific Sharia laws affect lives.

The basic tenets of Sharia emanate with the assumption that Allah has chosen the believers (i.e., the Muslims) to rule the world. It might sound fascistic, but make no mistake: the Qur’an is absolutely determined to hand over the rule of the world to the followers of Islam: more specifically, to the Bedouin Arabs. Because Islam = Arabism. In the Qur’an (3:104, 3:110) Allah says that Arabs are the best of people ever created.

In verse 2:143 Allah says He changed Qiblah to distinguish between Muslims and non-Muslims. Maulana Maududi, the ideological guru of the current Islamists explains this verse in this manner: This constitutes the proclamation appointing the religious community (ummah) consisting of the followers of Muhammad to religious guidance and leadership of the world. In the second place there is an allusion to the change in the direction of Prayer from Jerusalem to the Ka’bah. People of limited intelligence could see no significance in this change of direction although the substitution of Jerusalem by the Ka’bah amounted to the removal of the Children of Israel from their position of world leadership and their replacement by the ummah of Muhammad (peace be on him).

Maududi, in connection with verse 2:145, even writes: To deviate from that knowledge to please others is tantamount to offending the prophetic mission and is inconsistent with the gratitude that the Prophet ought to feel for having been favoured with the position of world leadership.

In the above sentences Maududi clearly states that the Muslims are the chosen people of Allah to rule the world. **

Some more:

**A Muslim must not be killed for killing an infidel (Hadis and ibn Kathir’s interpretation of verse 5:45 ).

Believers and non-believers are not equal…6:50, 28:61, 32:19, 35:19-22, 38:28, 39:9, 40:58, 45:21, 59:20, 67:22, 68:35**

That is why Sharia is a great insult to a civilized world.

**The husband’s permission is required for a wife to work (Doi, p.117).

Beating a wife is allowed (Doi, p.130).

The wife must worship the husband. Unbridled freedom of modern women is not good (Doi, p.132).

Muslim women can’t marry unbelievers under any circumstances (Doi, p.138).

The guardian of a woman must be a male. A woman cannot be married by herself. A widow can marry by herself (Doi, p.141).

Prohibition on polygamy is a violation of Sharia provision. Court does not understand biological need. Follow Muhammad (59:7) (Doi, p.153).

A drop of semen is the greatest sin (Doi, p.236).

Adoption is not allowed in Sharia (Doi, p.463).

Circumcision is obligatory for both men and women (foreskin for men, prepuce of clitoris for women) (e4.3, p.59).

Make repeated love, do repeated ablution (e5.29, p.67).

Human private parts are impure; do not touch them with your hands (e7.4, p.74).

Stoning to death for adultery (married person, man or woman) (o12.2, p.610).

Fornication: scourge 100 stripes and banish 81 km for 1 year (for unmarried persons) (o12.2, p.610).

Men scourged standing, women sitting (o12.5, p.611).

Stone the adulterer/adulteress even in severe cold or illness (o12.6, p.611).

Sodomy and lesbianism considered as adultery; same punishment; kill both for sodomy (p17.2, p.665).

To get united with the previous husband a divorced wife must marry another person, have complete sex with him and get divorced by him voluntarily (Hedaya, p.15, n7.7, p.565; p29.1, p.673).

When making love, no talking (r32.7, p.767).

Unlawful for a man to look at a woman who is not his wife or one of his unmarriageable kin (m2.3, p.512).

Husband and wife cannot look at each others genitals’ (m2.4 p.513).

**

There is more nonsense concerning sex and the sexual anatomy. Next is on their potty behavior.

**asem: Visiting lavatory—cover head, cover feet, carry stones (odd number, minimum three), and say prayer (e9.1, p.76).

Entering toilet—left foot first; exiting toilet right foot first, offer prayer (e9.1, p.76).

After urinating men squeeze the penis with the left hand from base to head (of penis); women squeeze the front (vulva) between thumb and forefinger; in both cases three times (e9.1(11), p.76).

Do not defecate with front facing the sun, the moon or the sacred in Jerusalem , Kaba (e9.0(16), p.77).

When no water available do wudu, ghusl using dirt (e12.0, p.84).**

The above nonsense is too long to be read or eplied…

 

[planten]

Let’s hear what Muslims have to say about the verses.

We need not reply to any extra ordinarily long posts. They are false accusations and have no value. Instead of looking for a reply to those accusations, please do not waste your time reading them. Go and reda your bible NT. That will be more useful to you.

 

[planten]

You respect a man who was an Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, assasin, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord.

Do not expect the same from others who think that this guy, if he lived today, should be thrown in prison and left to rot. Since he lived so long ago - the question is how can so many think that this guy is something worthy of respect??!!

And it is beyond any excuses anymore since you live in the West and have ample opportunity to do research on mohammed’s life and words.

This is why I don’t believe there are too many true ‘moderate’ muslims when I read nonsensical posts on islam. I do believe that there are muslims like Dr. Zuhdi Jasser who want to stop the violence, but even there - he is now an outcast and muslims draw pictures of him being a dog. And we know mohammed’s paranoia about dogs and making threats against muslims if they have one of God’s creatures - a dog - in their possession.

Again I see excessive undue abuse of prophet Muhammad here on the forum. Is it necessary. Would the christians keep quiet and let their beloved persons, Mary and Jesus be abused on this forum? The imposter is trying to temp the Muslims with his bad posts. i will swear that christainity and Catholicismis bound for hell if it is the type of R-Not religion.
Some body check the scounderal. If there is any moral standard of this forum. The best I can do is to ignore the post of the mad man/ woman in future. The next thing I can do is to tell all people, Muslim, Hindu, christians that catholics are the worst abusive people of the world. .

 

[dolphinlove]

We need not reply to any extra ordinarily long posts. They are false accusations and have no value. Instead of looking for a reply to those accusations, please do not waste your time reading them. Go and reda your bible NT. That will be more useful to you.

If they are false, why not prove they are false?

 

[planten]

If they are false, why not prove they are false?

Please see the latest abuse too. I do not need to read those things. I would rest assured that the catholics are worse than the protetants and will preach that only to every one, from now on.

 

[Reuben_J]

Again I see excessive undue abuse of prophet Muhammad here on the forum. Is it necessary. Would the christians keep quiet and let their beloved persons, Mary and Jesus be abused on this forum? The imposter is trying to temp the Muslims with his bad posts. i will swear that christainity and Catholicismis bound for hell if it is the type of R-Not religion.
Some body check the scounderal.

Planten, I don’t want to hurt your feeling but I have seen posts that authentate this claims. Only that others do not say them. We have no problem saying prophets for what they are, if that were true and written of them.

"Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, assasin, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord"

If you want to you can rebut them, like why he was not an adulterer or a pedophile or vengeful or an assasin for example.

 

[planten]

Planten, I don’t want to hurt your feeling but I have seen posts that authentate this claims. Only that others do not say them. We have no problem saying prophets for what they are, if that were true and written of them.

"Adulterer, Bandit, Immoral, Inhuman, Looter, Lecher, Misogynist, Murderer, Materialistic,
Narcissist, Pedophile, Raider, Rapist, assasin, Slavetrader, Sexmaniac, Terrorist, Torturer, Unfair, Vengeful Warlord"

If you want to you can rebut them, like why he was not an adulterer or a pedophile or vengeful or an assasin for example.

I do not need to read any abuse. So no need to reply. I feel it the duty of all sensible person to reply to that nonsense. If they do not reply then I have no need to consider the Catholics as sane and gentle peopel.

 

[Reuben_J]

I do not need to read any abuse. So no need to reply. I feel it the duty of all sensible person to reply to that nonsense. If they do not reply then I have no need to consider the Catholics as sane and gentle peopel.

Please cool it my friend. I am sorry if they are abuses to you. But for us who do not know the difference if you do not tell, we would take what being posted as true.

Now, relax. You have done great job here and you do not have to reply today but maybe later. :console:

 

[ChristianKnight]

I do not need to read any abuse. So no need to reply. I feel it the duty of all sensible person to reply to that nonsense. If they do not reply then I have no need to consider the Catholics as sane and gentle peopel.

I am sorry if people are mean to you, or dis-respectful. Some are just like that, some just don’t know it, some just ask a lot of questions (ME).

I hope that you can explain Islam to us sometime, without interuption maybe right a essay on it for us? (I’d read it)

btw: May god bless your journey in life my friend.

 

[dolphinlove]

I do not need to read any abuse. So no need to reply. I feel it the duty of all sensible person to reply to that nonsense. If they do not reply then I have no need to consider the Catholics as sane and gentle peopel.

Planten, These allegations are backed up by the quran and hadiths.
If you can prove otherwise, i would be interested to know.
I know they are obscene to you, but wouldnt it be in your interest to defend your prophet?

 

[Ismaail]

i will give u some of my beliefs:

I will give u mine: i don’t subscribe to traditions

Below is a list of nonsense which I’ve gathered from the Koran and from Hadiths.

There may be in the quran things i am not yet familiar with, in which case i will correct myself when i am better informed

• If you fart during prayer, your prayers won’t be answered

If by prayers u mean an invocation, then there seems to be no such requirement

• Christians believe the Trinity is Jesus, Mary, and the Holy Spirit

The quran isn’t thrilled with those who have made God “third of three”; who the “three” are is not clear. But in another verse it does mention that from the community of jesus, some people took jesus & his mother as gods

• The Holy Spirit is an angel

The quran refers to the holy spirit as a spirit, not an angel. I seem to be the only to hold that beleif; rest identify the holy spirit as an angel (gabriel)

• Jesus is the Messiah but He never fulfilled the OT prophecies

The messiah did as told to him by God; if he didn’t fulfill a prticular prophecy, then God did not appoint him for it

• Adam was created from fire

From clay

• Satan is a jinn, not an angel

A djinn

• Christians and Jews will not go to Hell

Yes

• Christians and Jews will go to Hell

Yes

• On the last day, Jesus will kill the Jews

Why?

• Jesus was never crucified nor did He die

Yes

• Muslims must face Jerusalem when praying

Nope

• Muslims must face Mecca when praying

Not exactly

• Islam was proclaimed by all of the great OT and NT prophets, including Adam, Abraham, Moses, Isaiah, and Jesus

Islam is the religion of every prophet

• Islam will no longer be practiced before the last day

Why?

• Angels don’t have free-wills

Don’t know

• On the last day everyone will ask Jesus to pray for them, but he will tell mankind to ask Mohammed instead

Based on traditions

• On the last day Jesus will rebuke the law of the gospel

A prophet may only rebuke inventions, not God’s laws

• Before the last day, Muslims must fight the Jews

In the old testament, the jews are always fighting others in obeyance of God’s commands…it may be that the muslims can be added to the list of God’s enemies; after all, jews alone are the chosen ones…just like christians…just like “muslims”

• Muslims can’t talk to their brothers for more than three days

I think u got it the other way; still, it is from traditions

• Actions are judged by God based on intentions

May be

• Christian exaggerate in praising Jesus

Deify him

 

[Ismaail]

@dolphinlove–Planten, These allegations are backed up by the quran and hadiths.
If you can prove otherwise, i would be interested to know.
I know they are obscene to you, but wouldnt it be in your interest to defend your prophet?

• Do back them up by the quran