Disgruntled Pope Francis slaps hand of woman who grabs him; later apologizes

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maxirad
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
This is what I hear (may be wrong) - a flurry of questions from young woman to the Pope:

1st What about the saint?
2nd ?? Medjugorje/Madasori?? is burning!
3rd What you say if you see it?
4th Listen to me!

That’s my 2c worth.
 
No she said it in English, I doubt the Pope would have known Tagalog
 
Thanks. I could not understand her (probably due to all the multitude of sounds at once).

Here is the voice exchange again.
40.png
Disgruntled Pope Francis slaps hand of woman who grabs him; later apologizes Catholic News
Here is the audio. Fast, slow, slower, etc… Does anyone know if “Asian Lady” is speaking Tagalog (the Filipino language)? Just curiosity here. No specific reason.
 
I totally agree with you! Jesus would have given a very different response from the Pope. He would have given a gentler response! However, the Pope is not Jesus. The Pope is as human as you and I and he will have faults too. But since he is a public figure he should be more careful about how he reacts to certain incidents. His reaction was a human reaction.

I just saw the Pope in person, this past summer 2019 at the Vatican. Crowds go crazy and I was almost crushed and hurt as people were trying cut me off just to get closer to the Pope. I was actually very surprised to see how tired and aging the Pope looks.

Anyway, it was good that he apologized and hopefully next time his body guards will step up to avoid any incidents like this!
 
Maria43 . . .
Anyway, it was good that he apologized
.

Yes. I think Pope Francis did the right thing by apologizing too.

St. Therese of Lisieux at age 15 had an audience with Pope Leo XIII where she was not permitted to even speak.

Naturally her intensity got the best of her, and she not only spoke, but it sounds like she was grabbing onto the Pope’s hands and/or knees (asking if she could have an exemption for being in the convent at age 15).

Eventually she had to be dragged away by two guards and a priest.

Pope Leo XIII intervened, not by hitting her, or slapping her, or deriding her, but by blessing her.
. . . Before entering the pontifical apartment, I was really determined to speak, but I felt my courage weaken when I saw Father Reverony [leader of the pilgrimage] standing by the Holy Father’s right side. Almost at the same instant, they told us on the Pope’s behalf that I was forbidden to speak . . .

. . . A moment later I was at the Holy Father’s feet. I kissed his slipper and
he presented his hand, but instead of kissing it
I joined my own
lifting my tear-filled eyes to his face . . .

. . . “Holy Father, in honor of your Jubilee, permit me to enter Carmel at the age of fifteen!”

Emotion undoubtedly made my voice tremble. He turned to Father Reverony who was staring at me with surprise and displeasure . . . .

. . . The two guards touched me politely to make me rise. As this was not enough they took me by the arms
and Father Reverony helped them lift me, for I stayed there
with joined hands resting on the knees of Leo XIII.
It was with force they dragged me from his feet.
At that moment I was thus lifted, the Holy Father place his hands on my lips then raised it to bless me. The two guards literally carried me to the door. . . .
(Bold and minor spelling correction mine. “I” instead of “is”).


Like you said. Very reasonable for Pope Francis to apologize here.
Good work here Pope Francis apologizing.
 
Last edited:
For any who were interested in what the Asian woman who’s arm or wrist was slapped by the Pope was saying.

This is the most credible-sounding (to me anyway) explanation I have seen.
Why destroy their faith? Why destroy the Chinese? [Look for] the Chinese [feelings]. [Talk] to me!
Here is the context of what this person said in this unpacking . . . .
. . . Everyone has seen the video. On January 1st an Asian Catholic woman got hold of Pope Francis’ hand and made a desperate plea. The Holy Father did not appreciate his hand being yanked, and began slapping her hand to free himself.

The Catholic world immediately fell into a tussle adjudicating this event. Who was in the wrong—the Holy Father (who has since apologized for his impatience) or the zealous woman who wanted so desperately to communicate with him?

My own take is that both were in the wrong. And that the pope’s security detail was remiss. But this is not what concerns me here. Because for me, an American Catholic living in Asia, something has been glaringly missing from this story from the start. Namely: What was the woman’s plea?

Indeed, why has the Western Catholic press shown itself more or less indifferent to what this woman was saying? . . . . But with this Asian Catholic woman, hardly anyone is interested.

And let’s face it. The question is answerable. The audio recording is not that bad. To go by the woman’s demeanor, tone and body language, it is clear she is distraught. She is making a plea, and knows her behavior is confrontational. With so much Catholic academic expertise spread across the globe, we should be able to interpret her words, no? . . .
1/2 . . . .

 
Last edited:
2/2 . . .
I’ve spent some time on this, and may have partly solved the mystery. Some background: I’m a Mandarin speaker, with long experience listening to Chinese speakers’ communication in both English and Chinese. So I recognized right away that the woman is not speaking Chinese. She’s also not speaking Cantonese, the main language of Hong Kong. I’ve also verified with a Japanese linguist that it’s not Japanese, and (more or less) verified that it’s not Korean either.

In the end I concluded, and most others agree, that the woman is speaking heavily accented English. As is typical for many whose native language is Chinese, she’s not very clear on the consonants. Which presents the main challenge. But after listening repeatedly to various versions of the audio, some slowed down, I think I may have the basics.

And so: The woman crosses herself in preparation. Then she sees that the pope is turning away and will not in fact greet her. She seizes his hand and says:
Why destroy their faith? Why destroy the Chinese? [Look for] the Chinese [feelings]. [Talk] to me!
I’ve put the words I’m least confident of in brackets. And yes, it is very hard to follow her. Here is a link courtesy of Fr. John Zuhlsdorf with the audio at various speeds.

Why does this plea make sense? There are two levels. First, the dire situation of the Chinese Church.

Many Chinese Catholics, who have long remained faithful to our popes in defiance of communist authorities, have been thrown into despair over the Vatican’s recent “secret deal” with Beijing. They feel they’ve been thrown under the bus so that the Vatican can make diplomatic headway with Beijing, and they see this new Vatican diplomacy as part of a misguided and un-Catholic attempt to make the Church into something like a semi-religious United Nations. Perhaps the most serious spokesperson for China’s Catholics, Hong Kong’s Cardinal Joseph Zen, fully agrees with this Catholic critique. Deeply hurt by Pope Francis’ policy toward China and by the personal rebuffs he has received, Cardinal Zen has just recently reached out to other cardinals.

Myself, as a China watcher and Catholic, I also have been horrified by the details of the Vatican’s pandering to China’s communists. Consider the seriously under-reported story of Francis’ envoy kowtowing to the human rights atrocity that is China’s organ harvesting business.

So the woman’s plea makes sense in this context of Vatican relations with China’s Catholics.

But what about linguistically? This is the second element that needs explaining.

Of course it is very common for those who haven’t mastered a second language to use phraseology typical of their native language. In this case, the English words spoken by the woman would seem strange to English speakers, but would reflect usages in Chinese. It’s what we call “Chinglish”. . . . .
 
Last edited:
So this woman was not only grabbing the Pope but was verbally challenging him.

What inappropriate behavior to show at her, likely, only chance to see the Pope in her life.

I’m glad the Holy Father apologized but this lady was really inappropriate.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top