Disillusioned by the world

[Nec5]

The world didn’t “change into this”, human nature has always been this way and barring evolutionary pressure/genetic engineering will remain this way. People really like having sex, and some tend to take it too far. Why do you think so many of the world’s religions have devoted so much of their teachings to controlling the human sex drive? It’s always been an issue in human societies.

An issue? Yes. But the culture has become progressively more anti-God and pro-hedonism since the 60s. Therefore, the world did change quite dramatically in the last few decades (not even a lifetime). Just 50 years ago, the idea of divorce had a stigma, homosexual marriage wasn’t even a thought, and sleeping around was also stigmatized. All three of those have been completely reversed. Heck, killing a baby is not legal.

And I’m not even getting into things like cameras on every street corner (which we used to joke about as Stainesque/fascist/anti-American back in the 80s).

 

[NewsTheMan]

I agree with you Nec5, and this is in a short and sweet way what my whole post is about.

Pro-Hedonist, Selfish self satisfying and Anti-God.

 

[flyingfish]

An issue? Yes. But the culture has become progressively more anti-God and pro-hedonism since the 60s. Therefore, the world did change quite dramatically in the last few decades (not even a lifetime). Just 50 years ago, the idea of divorce had a stigma, homosexual marriage wasn’t even a thought, and sleeping around was also stigmatized. All three of those have been completely reversed. Heck, killing a baby is not legal.

And I’m not even getting into things like cameras on every street corner (which we used to joke about as Stainesque/fascist/anti-American back in the 80s).

I don’t know if I’d go that far. From what I know of history, Roman society was full of hedonism, homosexuality, sex.

Then there was pederasty (i.e. man/boy relationships): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

Pederasty or paederasty (US: /ˈpɛdəræsti/, UK: /ˈpiːdəræsti/) is a (usually erotic) relationship between an older man and an adolescent boy outside his immediate family. The word pederasty derives from Greek (paiderastia) “love of children” or “love of boys”,[1] a compound derived from παῖς (pais) “child, boy” and ἐραστής (erastēs) “lover”.
Historically, pederasty has existed as a variety of customs and practices within different cultures. The status of pederasty has changed over the course of history, at times considered an ideal and at other times a crime.
In the history of Europe, its most structured cultural manifestation was Athenian pederasty, and became most prominent in the 6th century BC. Greek pederasty’s various forms were the subject of philosophic debates in which the carnal type was unfavorably compared with erotic yet spiritual and moderate forms.

In Biblical times there are tales of Sodom and Gomorrah, as well as polygamy being common and accepted.

Until the late 20th century marital rape was considered legal in the US.

And this is just the sexual stuff, before that you also had stuff like legal slavery, Nazis building killing factories for Jews, Soviet Communists killing millions. Stuff of that caliber still goes on in places like North Korea and so on.

If anything, human society seems to have become less brutal and immoral here in the West.

 

[Nec5]

And this is just the sexual stuff, before that you also had stuff like legal slavery, Nazis building killing factories for Jews, Soviet Communists killing millions. Stuff of that caliber still goes on in places like North Korea and so on.

If anything, human society seems to have become less brutal and immoral here in the West.

Hardly. It’s just a veneer and depends on where you look. Human nature never really changes; we are always so disappointingly weak/selfish.

As for the killing factories, abortion clinics qualify, and the slave trade is still alive and well in the states. I forget the number but literally thousands of children are shipped and sold to predators in all the major cities of the U.S. each year.

 

[Rascalking]

Hardly. It’s just a veneer and depends on where you look. Human nature never really changes; we are always so disappointingly weak/selfish.

As for the killing factories, abortion clinics qualify, and the slave trade is still alive and well in the states. I forget the number but literally thousands of children are shipped and sold to predators in all the major cities of the U.S. each year.

Um, flying fish was totally accurate. The west has it’s problems, that’s for sure, but Thank God for America-the greatest country in the world.

Say what you want, but the only force for good in the world is America, UK, Canada-countries like that.

 

[flyingfish]

Hardly. It’s just a veneer and depends on where you look. Human nature never really changes; we are always so disappointingly weak/selfish.

As for the killing factories, abortion clinics qualify, and the slave trade is still alive and well in the states. I forget the number but literally thousands of children are shipped and sold to predators in all the major cities of the U.S. each year.

I would think countless Jews would be very offended if you compare to the killing factories of the Nazis to abortions. There is just no comparison between murdering self aware human beings with killing human fetuses that don’t know they’re alive and have no awareness of existence or its end.

Also, even if there is slavery today, it’s illegal and the authorities are working to end it. Compare this with the past when slavery was legal, accepted, and considered an economic good.

Would you honestly prefer to live in the past and/or not in the Western world?

 

[Nec5]

I would think countless Jews would be very offended if you compare to the killing factories of the Nazis to abortions. There is just no comparison between murdering self aware human beings with killing human fetuses that don’t know they’re alive and have no awareness of existence or its end.

Also, even if there is slavery today, it’s illegal and the authorities are working to end it. Compare this with the past when slavery was legal, accepted, and considered an economic good.

Would you honestly prefer to live in the past and/or not in the Western world?

I believe the thread was about the morality and rather Godly principles defining the West changing rapidly toward evil. To that point, I listed specific changes that represent significant shifts in moral thinking. None of you have responded to those changes; it’s pretty obvious why. Instead, you’ve tried to engage the topic into a rationalization of how this society is better/worse than any in history, so we should not point out it’s corrupting decline in the last several decades.

The comparison of time periods is endless; evil exists as does good. I would rather live and hang around Christ when he was alive. Since we’re in the realm of fantasy, I’ll take the modern conveniences of technology and use them during that time period.

As for comparing the Holocaust to abortion, you’re absolutely right. There is no comparison. At least the Jews murdered in the ghettos and waterless showers had a .00001% chance of using their free will to escape or resist, illusion though it may have been. The helpless human beings having their brains sucked out inside their mother’s womb don’t have a fighting chance in hell.

Self-awareness is not the test for the sacredness of human life; we are to care and protect the weakest among us, self-aware or unaware. We are also called to recognize and confront (not tolerate) the evil that men do, offering forgiveness if the person sincerely asks for it. Ignoring evil does not make it go away. In fact, it only grows in strength as our current culture has proven with it’s “personal Jesus” and “don’t judge” insanity.

 

[CesarAugustus]

Abortion is a holocaust in the same manner of the famous genocides (yes, the nazi holocaust wasn’t the only one) in 20th century, or worst

And to the OP

Congratulations!!!

I think that eventually, one gets tired of modernism

Although I don’t drink, don’t go to parties or don’t do drugs, I become disappointed of the people near me, be it in the University, fandoms, friends, etc

I really want more Catholic friends

Blessings !!!

 

[flyingfish]

I believe the thread was about the morality and rather Godly principles defining the West changing rapidly toward evil. To that point, I listed specific changes that represent significant shifts in moral thinking. None of you have responded to those changes; it’s pretty obvious why. Instead, you’ve tried to engage the topic into a rationalization of how this society is better/worse than any in history, so we should not point out it’s corrupting decline in the last several decades.

The comparison of time periods is endless; evil exists as does good. I would rather live and hang around Christ when he was alive. Since we’re in the realm of fantasy, I’ll take the modern conveniences of technology and use them during that time period.

I don’t see the West changing rapidly toward evil. Not that long ago, black people in America didn’t have equal rights, neither did women (and it was legal for a man to rape his wife). Now they do. That to me far outweighs sexually charged music videos on MTV, or there not being a stigma against premarital sex.

I think overall, the West is much better now than it was 50 years ago, and 100 years ago.

It’s not like anyone forces anyone else to engage in premarital sex or whatever, you are free to live a chaste life if you so wish.

 

[Rascalking]

I believe the thread was about the morality and rather Godly principles defining the West changing rapidly toward evil. To that point, I listed specific changes that represent significant shifts in moral thinking. None of you have responded to those changes; it’s pretty obvious why. Instead, you’ve tried to engage the topic into a rationalization of how this society is better/worse than any in history, so we should not point out it’s corrupting decline in the last several decades.

The comparison of time periods is endless; evil exists as does good. I would rather live and hang around Christ when he was alive. Since we’re in the realm of fantasy, I’ll take the modern conveniences of technology and use them during that time period.

As for comparing the Holocaust to abortion, you’re absolutely right. There is no comparison. At least the Jews murdered in the ghettos and waterless showers had a .00001% chance of using their free will to escape or resist, illusion though it may have been. The helpless human beings having their brains sucked out inside their mother’s womb don’t have a fighting chance in hell.

Self-awareness is not the test for the sacredness of human life; we are to care and protect the weakest among us, self-aware or unaware. We are also called to recognize and confront (not tolerate) the evil that men do, offering forgiveness if the person sincerely asks for it. Ignoring evil does not make it go away. In fact, it only grows in strength as our current culture has proven with it’s “personal Jesus” and “don’t judge” insanity.

I’m very pro-life but I find your comparison between the Jews in the holocaust and unborn children repulsive.

Nothing is comparable to the horrors that the Jewish people went through. Nothing. Period. Abortion is a nightmarish evil, as was the holocaut.

 

[Rascalking]

I don’t see the West changing rapidly toward evil. Not that long ago, black people in America didn’t have equal rights, neither did women (and it was legal for a man to rape his wife). Now they do. That to me far outweighs sexually charged music videos on MTV, or there not being a stigma against premarital sex.

I think overall, the West is much better now than it was 50 years ago, and 100 years ago.

It’s not like anyone forces anyone else to engage in premarital sex or whatever, you are free to live a chaste life if you so wish.

Thank you flying fish! Well said!

My goodness, people-the world might be fallen and sinful, but give it a break here-it’s a great place-in particular, the west!

 

[Monica4316]

Thanks for the replies!

Well, I am a member of the Catholic Student Group on campus! Unfortunately, there are only around 60 members, and even more unfortunately, its more of a "get a T-shirt when you join"kind of thing. There aren’t any meetings, social events, what have you. Having said that, I do know a few people from the group and they are great people, but I have a hard time getting along with them beyond acquintance level (merely because thats just how friends work, not for any specific reason!).

aw that’s unfortunate!! the group at my university, - we have lots of events going on, and I’ve made some very close friends there… well keep on trying! I know it can be really frustrating with university… most people I’ve met are exactly what you describe, they’re really into drinking and clubbing and stuff. I think it depends where you look. Try finding a group that has likeminded people… it took me a while to find friends who are also trying to follow God, but they’re out there!

God bless

 

[NewsTheMan]

I don’t know much about the East vs the West or anything like that and it isnt really what my post is about

But yeah, as a Catholic it can be a lonely world out there! A male catholic especially. In fact, people laugh at me not because I am Catholic but because I often say well yes I try to be a good catholic and I have recently changed and turned more towards Jesus. They ask if im serious cos a “guy like you isn’t like that”. Which I dont understand at all

Anyway, went to Mass today and there were 14 people in the Church. 5 nuns, 7 women, a priest and me. Would be nice to see a young person there at least nevermind another guy!

I think its also a balance that I want from friends. Yes there are ‘christian’ groups here, but to be perfectly honest I don’t want to and can’t relate to evangelicals (which accounts for probably 80% of religious groups on campus). Beggars can’t be choosers. But I guess I am a bit of a Catholic prude.

Speaking of disillusion, I was eating today and heard a group of girls saying how much they love Lady GaGa (in my opinion the worst pop start out there, seriously, immoral immoral immoral) and they look up to her and her freedom of sexuality and all that. I though Maaaaan and this is what I have to deal with. I dont care what music you like as long as you don’t take it seriously and as a 20 year old look up to that kinda thing. I don’t know.

 

[Onedayatatime]

I don’t know much about the East vs the West or anything like that and it isnt really what my post is about

I think its also a balance that I want from friends. Yes there are ‘christian’ groups here, but to be perfectly honest I don’t want to and can’t relate to evangelicals (which accounts for probably 80% of religious groups on campus). Beggars can’t be choosers. But I guess I am a bit of a Catholic prude.

I think it might be better to be mixing with Evalgelical christians rather than being stuck in your dorm room all the time.

Remember you can wear your Catholic faith to them, and you will have much more in common with them than the “partygoers” you can’t relate to. While I agree it’s great to have likeminded friends, it’s important to deal with the rest of the world as well. Some of my best friends are Muslims, Evangelicals, Jews and yes, many Catholics as well. But it’s our job to get out there and show them the way.

I would also suggest getting involved with some ministry that will be helpful to meet people. Food pantries, Habitat for Humanity or contact your local Catholic Charities and ask them for what are the needs on the campus. Sounds like a Campus wide Youth Ministry needs an injection of the Holy Spirit and some activities to get everyone fired up!

 

[chevalier]

Greetings. I’m going through a similar thing, although I’m somewhat older than you are.

So, without false modesty, basically, as a lawyer, which is my education, I can go to an appellate court without notes or previous rehearsals and throw a speech right at the opposing attorney with half again my age and far better postnominals and make the judges laugh at the puns, as a translator which is my current job (I’m starting up a small firm) I can do a weekload of work in 24 hours, writing nice texts after like 30 hours of work, and I kinda got the mind to treat Latin like a current language when I put myself to it. This is all still boh-ring, as far as women go and heck, this even though I can properly make them forget their names on the dancing floor or chat them into anything (other than a relationship). Far as looks go, it was suggested I’d have a job if I didn’t go to school, so to say. Plus, I basically win votes without trying, probably largely by female vote. Where does this get me as far as marital status goes? Single like the last bottle on the shelf.

Needless to say, it seems the old concepts such as acting honourably and generously with others, or actually looking for love in relationships, are held in contempt these days and awaken but laughter, so lamentably so in women these days.

Don’tcha worry, though, Fort Jade’s still holdin’ out and the flag’s flyin’ high. I just simply don’t get it. Wherever I set my eyes upon a woman and go in, I always get the friends conversation sooner or later, typically sooner, no matter how spectacular the beginning. This has brought me to the point where I can’t really get myself to imagine a happy future and I really am tempted to focus on business, as sad as that would be.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Sweetie, keep going to Mass. Someone’s mother will notice you and you might eventually start seeing her show up with her beautiful daughter during the summer months. Being who you are and being dependable and responsible and virtuous in every group will put you in touch with people who are always on the lookout for a good boyfriend for their (fill in the blank) sister, daughter, cousin, best friend…

Do NOT ignore the middle-aged woman at work or at Mass and pretend she’s invisible. Smile at her and wish her good-day. Being courteous to the world reaps unexpected rewards.

Your job may be to be a light to others and help them reevaluate their perception of Catholics. Being moral, dependable and fun to be with are not mutually exclusive. We are called to be the salt of the earth. Let immature people idolize silly pop stars. Eventually they’ll see that life doesn’t make them happy. Women are the first to be victimized by Lady GaGa’s idea of sexual freedom. How happy is Madonna nowadays?

You’ve just figured out things before your peers. Be patient. And know there ARE other people out there who are like you and just as quiet as you are. Find them on the internet.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Chev, if you dance… come to America and marry me. I can help you do legal research too. This is getting painful watching you go to waste. Silly little girls your age don’t appreciate quality yet.

Seriously… build the law/translation practice. Eventually you will run into someone who values you. The girls your age aren’t ready to settle down. But when they are, YOUR kind is what they want.

 

[chevalier]

Liberanos, thank you for your kind words. :tiphat:

I don’t really know if that explanation really applies any more. When I was a student, it surely did. Now I’m 27 and the ladies I interact with aren’t always younger or same age. This is no longer the age of stupidity and no longer the age of top physical form and hormone rush, either, but way past. The only repeating factor in all this is I. Some of my friends’ theory is that I’m too soft and I allow them to walk over me and the same says my father. I am not sure I agree; however, I do see that I don’t even know how to react to what they pull on me any more, there’s just the pain that comes and the feeling of isolation. When they are being mean and intolerable, I am worrying that they’ve been hurt so that they’re in that state… conversely, when I care and worry, they’re just mean then.

…The problem is, I don’t care (that way) for anybody whom I would have to put in line first. I can and do not hesitate to play hardball in business settings, but I just don’t care for a woman I’d have to “show her place” in accordance with her mode of life and in direct contradiction of mine. I don’t even want to begin to imagine a close personal relationship with someone with whom I’d have had to fight and win a willpower contest for dominance and basically I don’t care for people who use people, who regard a softer and more cooperative manner as a weakness to exploit. I would happily die single rather than have any of that. Granted, some women will grace a man with mean behaviours and test games to test his mettle, but as agreeable as the goal might be, the means are unethical and I’m not interested in a relationship with someone who will use such means in cold blood… In fact, I’m not interested in a relationship with someone who will go easily about his life when I’m having headaches and losing sleep over his behaviour.

…In the same vein, I don’t want to be anyone’s, forgive my language, parking lot for after the party, and this is basically how the “nice guy” is viewed. I am very willing to be very understanding of a turbulent past (and honest mistakes do not fall hereunder), but I’m not willing to be a parking lot where to rest after taking all the fun from life that one could–and especially not by design. It hardly feels like a reward and it hardly is flattering to be the one who is chosen the last, after exhausting the more appealing options, or the mellow guy that was put on the back burner to settle down with after partying away one’s youth (including twenties). I apologise if this sounds cold or cruel. If so, I will try to explain it in more agreeable ways, and at any rate, this basically comes down to the fact I’d marry–if at all–someone who’s spent some time reflecting on life and on past choices, which is not the typical woman aged 25-30.

 

[chevalier]

In the 25-30 category, it’s more like they’re willing to flirt and hit on you precisely until you reciprocate, at which time a headgame starts and if you don’t manage to avoid falling in love, you’re the pariah. And if you let them, they will treat you like dirt and disrespect you all along tiphat: to all exceptions, I’ve met a couple). I’m more and more ready to conclude I’m done with this rubbish and concentrate on being a fine uncle.

So, NewsTheMan, avoid women who play games like the plague. If that means avoiding 90% of what the secular world has to offer, then so be it. Don’t skip the girl who doesn’t have the strut, isn’t that great at pulling a vogue pose, doesn’t know how to rule the floor etc. If your comparative material so far is party girls, the one who isn’t really may be at a natural disadvantage if only because not intending to engage in premarital sexual relations, she will have the sexual sphere more contained and will not exude the same kind of “sex appeal”, let alone indicating openness and availability. You may even not notice she’s single, or you might even not notice she’s single and looking. Basically, you will have to put some effort in weeding her out, although some girls have ways of standing out without compromising their moral integrity… or even without as much as appearing frivolous (I remember one who was very decently and very beautifully dressed… and was a commie ). Then again, most people just pull it off sooner or later and up married anyway, so it shouldn’t be that hard, really.

As for increasing your chances, if you can find any initiative that involves Catholic folks your age, just go there. Just be careful with singles clubs etc. because the atmosphere may be prone to rash decisions (by this I primarily mean impatience and jealousy/competition). Meanwhile, it might be good already to work on what makes you a better man (all around or just some things where you want to focus) or a better provider (work, school) and so on. It will increase what you put on the table and some of it will make you more attractive, i.e. improve your chances.

The Internet isn’t that bad with its dating websites, either. At least you don’t risk as much as a girl does if you attend a meeting with someone you got to know that way. Long-distance relationships aren’t for everybody, but who knows, maybe you’ll find someone local (and get off the communicator ASAP).

 

[irishman33]

Yeah man. I hate the whole college pop-culture, gotta get drunk and pick up girls kinda deal. People with good morals seem to be in the minority. I really don’t have any advice to give as I’m pretty much at the stage where I’m not trying hard to meet new people because as college freshmen everyone seems to have the same attitude and the ones that don’t really don’t show it. I am also extra careful about girls. If I come across someone with similar morals/ attitude as me I’ll open up, but for the most part I’m just going with the flow for right now. However, I’m toying with the idea of starting a service fraternity at my community college. Maybe it will help draw some of the people with a good head on their shoulders out of hiding and we can start doing some visible good in the college youth world. :yyeess: