disorder

[henrikhank]

Pax! According to Catholicism (and myself) homosexuality is a disorder. I’ve been listening to Catholic psychologists on Catholic Live Radio telling us that homosexual disorder can be cured. When I listen to psychiatrists they tell me that personality disorder or other mental disorder will never be cured even if one learns to cope with it. So why then is homosexual disorder cureable? I have hear Oriental Orthodoxes telling me that they think even just having homosexual disorder is sinful. Cancer is also a disorder. Wouldn’t that make cancer sinful as well. I am a confused non-Catholic. Please help me understand Catholicism.

 

[ellzeena]

I grew up in Greenwich Village NYC in the 50s and 60s and have known, as a result, many homosexuals (male). My personal opinion is that in any group there are “volunteers” for their own reasons and then there are legitimate sufferers. I don’t think of homosexuality as a “disorder” per se that can be “cured”. I think it is a hormonal/genetic mistake/accident/in utero, perhaps even inherited. Mentally ill people cannot help being mentally ill and I think the great majority of experienced and educated psychiatrists (not your street corner MD) realize these things are quite complex. Adrenal gland function, thyroid, brain chemistry (and even interaction of neurons in the brain), ad nauseam, are “to blame” for all mental illness and, I think, for those situations where people are gender confused and even find themselves totally unattracted to the opposite sex. This is NOT a choice. NO ONE chooses to be schizophrenic, biolar, have a personality disorder, suffer from ADHD, dyslexia, high anxiety, social anxiety, agoraphobia, etc. NO ONE. Neither do those for whom same sex attraction is the “only” attraction CHOOSE IT.

I don’t care what any of those so-called professionals say. I’m not impressed by educational credentials (and remember that 50% of every graduating group from a simple Baccalaureate program through the M.D. Ph.D., etc. graduates in the last half of the class). It is experience, compassion, and great intuition, coupled with the ability to use one’s acquired knowledge (academic and experiential) that makes a great “doctor”. And they are few and not easy to find.

I think anyone who finds him/herself in a situation that is contrary to the “norm”, that is directly impeding the healthy progress of life, and that is so overpowering it cannot be denied, is a person who requires serious prayer and compassion. Jesus came to such as these. The people who flocked to Him (to the point where He had no rest and had to try to find a place to go in order to even sleep!) were questioning, hungry for something, hurting, disappointed, diseased, possessed, unloved, cast aside by society. He ate at their tables. He embraced them with great joy (yes, joy). He took great abuse and slander because of this! He died because of this! He rose because of this!

Pray for those who are in trouble in any way. Ask His Mother to intercede for these people who are lost, suffering, or compromising themselves out of confusion, fear, misdirection. Do not judge.

 

[St_Francis]

Pax! According to Catholicism (and myself) homosexuality is a disorder. I’ve been listening to Catholic psychologists on Catholic Live Radio telling us that homosexual disorder can be cured. When I listen to psychiatrists they tell me that personality disorder or other mental disorder will never be cured even if one learns to cope with it. So why then is homosexual disorder cureable? I have hear Oriental Orthodoxes telling me that they think even just having homosexual disorder is sinful. Cancer is also a disorder. Wouldn’t that make cancer sinful as well. I am a confused non-Catholic. Please help me understand Catholicism.

First, the fact that some people who are not even Catholic say they think something has nothing to do with Catholic teaching!

What the Catholic Church teaches is that we do not know what causes the condition of being homosexual, but it is a cross and homosexuals should be treated with respect just like everyone else.

Homosexuals themselves are called to chastity just as we all are. Some homosexuals have been able to marry someone of the opposite sex and fulfill their marital duty; other than that, they, like everyone else, must live celibately.

As to “curing” the condition of homosexuality, some say it is possible, and a recent study I read about suggests that some people do experience a shift in orientation. Some psychological conditions can be cured and/or minimized; others not so much.

 

[teachccd]

I grew up in Greenwich Village NYC in the 50s and 60s and have known, as a result, many homosexuals (male). My personal opinion is that in any group there are “volunteers” for their own reasons and then there are legitimate sufferers. I don’t think of homosexuality as a “disorder” per se that can be “cured”. I think it is a hormonal/genetic mistake/accident/in utero, perhaps even inherited. Mentally ill people cannot help being mentally ill and I think the great majority of experienced and educated psychiatrists (not your street corner MD) realize these things are quite complex. Adrenal gland function, thyroid, brain chemistry (and even interaction of neurons in the brain), ad nauseam, are “to blame” for all mental illness and, I think, for those situations where people are gender confused and even find themselves totally unattracted to the opposite sex. This is NOT a choice. NO ONE chooses to be schizophrenic, biolar, have a personality disorder, suffer from ADHD, dyslexia, high anxiety, social anxiety, agoraphobia, etc. NO ONE. Neither do those for whom same sex attraction is the “only” attraction CHOOSE IT.

I don’t care what any of those so-called professionals say. I’m not impressed by educational credentials (and remember that 50% of every graduating group from a simple Baccalaureate program through the M.D. Ph.D., etc. graduates in the last half of the class). It is experience, compassion, and great intuition, coupled with the ability to use one’s acquired knowledge (academic and experiential) that makes a great “doctor”. And they are few and not easy to find.

I think anyone who finds him/herself in a situation that is contrary to the “norm”, that is directly impeding the healthy progress of life, and that is so overpowering it cannot be denied, is a person who requires serious prayer and compassion. Jesus came to such as these. The people who flocked to Him (to the point where He had no rest and had to try to find a place to go in order to even sleep!) were questioning, hungry for something, hurting, disappointed, diseased, possessed, unloved, cast aside by society. He ate at their tables. He embraced them with great joy (yes, joy). He took great abuse and slander because of this! He died because of this! He rose because of this!

Pray for those who are in trouble in any way. Ask His Mother to intercede for these people who are lost, suffering, or compromising themselves out of confusion, fear, misdirection. Do not judge.

WOW!! Very well stated. Thank you…teachccd

 

[LongingSoul]

Pax! According to Catholicism (and myself) homosexuality is a disorder. I’ve been listening to Catholic psychologists on Catholic Live Radio telling us that homosexual disorder can be cured. When I listen to psychiatrists they tell me that personality disorder or other mental disorder will never be cured even if one learns to cope with it. So why then is homosexual disorder cureable? I have hear Oriental Orthodoxes telling me that they think even just having homosexual disorder is sinful. Cancer is also a disorder. Wouldn’t that make cancer sinful as well. I am a confused non-Catholic. Please help me understand Catholicism.

Technically, cancer isn’t a disorder but a disease. Disorder implies confusion of purpose. So even in terms of natural law, a desire to utilise the sexual organs in a way that they don’t fulfil or which even offends, their natural purpose is by definition, disordered.

While there’s no definitive cause apparent for the disorder, to recognise a thing as a disorder and apply cognitive techniques and spiritual practices that minimise discomfort and encourage positive pathways to having the human need for companionship and love met, is healthy and holy. So much of the Church’s ministry is about helping us overcome the power of our disorders (because we all have different types dragging us away from holiness) and being more in love with God than ourselves.

 

[StudentMI]

What the Catholic Church teaches is that we do not know what causes the condition of being homosexual, but it is a cross and homosexuals should be treated with respect just like everyone else.

Indeed. Until we know for sure, the important thing to do is to treat those with homosexual feelings with respect, while maintaining Church dogma on homosexual acts, which is infallible and cannot change. The Church has no dogmatic stance on the cause of or possibility of changing the orientation.

 

[henrikhank]

If the Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful, does it mean that borderline acts are sinful as well?

 

[LongingSoul]

If the Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful, does it mean that borderline acts are sinful as well?

There is what is called a ‘near occasion of sin’ which denotes a thought or act that is likely to ignite the lust or desire for a sinful act. This desire impacts on ones resolve to reject or avoid the sinful act and causes undue angst and perhaps bitterness and resentment. It’s better for someone who is trying to live a chaste life, not to feel that doing ‘borderline’ things will appease and satisfy them. It makes it much harder and uncontrollable.

 

[CopticChristian]

Pax!

According to Catholicism (and myself) homosexuality is a disorder.

No. The Church does not teach this. The Church teaches that an active homosexual is acting disordered. The acts are disordered. Here is the problem.

male/female with SSA is not homosexual in this context
male/female with SSA acting on their SSA is acting homosexual and is acting disordered

I’ve been listening to Catholic psychologists on Catholic Live Radio telling us that homosexual disorder can be cured.

No. How can something be cured unless it is a disease and it is not a disease it is behavior and an acceptance of thinking. Behavior can change and thinking can change if their is motiviation to do so.

When I listen to psychiatrists they tell me that personality disorder or other mental disorder will never be cured even if one learns to cope with it.

Personality Disorders are hard to deal with and the Church does not teach that homosexuality is a mental disorder, it teaches that the actions are disordered.

So why then is homosexual disorder cureable?

Because you don’t understand that the Church is not saying that homosexuality is a disorder, rather the actions are disordered and to impy cure, implies disease. You have formulated your thinking incorrectly and this too can change.

I have hear Oriental Orthodoxes telling me that they think even just having homosexual disorder is sinful.

This is interesting information that is not necessary to adhere to or believe to become Catholic.

Cancer is also a disorder. Wouldn’t that make cancer sinful as well. I am a confused non-Catholic. Please help me understand Catholicism.

The only control anyone has over Cancer is in their diet. It is proven that the ingestion of animal products is associated with an increase in certain Cancers and it is proven that eating Fruits and Vegetables is helpful in Cancer prevention (China Study & Joel Furhman, Eat to Live). Cancer development is a microbilogic process you are not necessarily going out of your way to get or develop. It is disordered multiplaction by certain cells to take over function where other cells do their job. You have nothing to do with it except as mentioned. You don’t sit and think about getting or doing anything to develop Cancer as opposed to thinking and acting on something once acted on is disordered.

Cancer is not sin. It is Cancer.

 

[CopticChristian]

Same word, different meanings.
That may be the confusion.

The word “disorder” is a word used in the Catholic religion (I’ve never heard it used in others?)…with it’s own meaning and definition–different than how it is used in the medical community.
So what you’d call a “disorder” in the Catholic church may not be a disorder outside of it…and vice versa.

In the Catholic religion, homosexuality is called a disorder because it doesn’t lead to the “ordered” conclusion of procreation, etc.

But that is not defined as a disorder in the medical community.
A non-Catholic psychologist-therapist would not try to or want to “cure” someone of their homosexuality–they wouldn’t think it would need to be “cured”. They would most likely treat it as something natural and organic to the person (unless it was, indeed, linked with emotional trauma, etc…)

.

Homosexuality is not considered a “disorder” in the medical community.

This is not true.

On April 9, 1974, results of the vote were announced. Only 10,555 of the 17,905 APA members had voted in the election. The results were as follows,

Total APA members eligible to vote: 17,905
Number of APA members that actually voted: 10,555
Number of members that “Abstained”: 367
Number of “ No” votes-votes to keep “homosexuality” in the DSM as a mental disorder: 3,810
Number of “Yes” votes-votes to remove “homosexuality” from the DSM as a mental disorder: 5,854

The 3,810 people that voted to keep Homosexuality in the DSM did not just accept the vote, die, give up…they persisted in their belief and many can be found in…

NARTH
Catholic Medical Association
Catholic Social Workers
Christian Counseling…

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=769113

**The Reformation for Secular Homosexual thinking **

The secular medical community has a biased opinion that is attempting to suggest that what you say is true however it is not universally accepted…

But that is not defined as a disorder in the medical community.
A non-Catholic psychologist-therapist would not try to or want to “cure” someone of their homosexuality–they wouldn’t think it would need to be “cured”. They would most likely treat it as something natural and organic to the person (unless it was, indeed, linked with emotional trauma, etc…)

The secular medical community that has swallowed the propaganda of the APA, run by Homosexuals to try to persuade the public that their view is gospel and here I see you are a disciple.

 

[Mary_Ellen]

If the Church teaches that homosexual acts are sinful, does it mean that borderline acts are sinful as well?

I suffer from some BPD and I believe that yes, borderline acts can be sinful. The devaluation of others, the inflated self-image which can lead to pride, the self-injury and suicidal ideation, can all be sinful. I also believe that having the disorder mitigates, to some degree, the gravity of the sin but I still bring all these things to Confession. I have found the graces received in the Sacrament help me in the healing process, both in mind and soul.

 

[CopticChristian]

In 1974, Nixon was president, Cher was still married to Sonny, Patty Hearst was
kidnapped by Symbionese Liberation Army, Hank Aron was still at bat, and the World Trade Center was just going up in NYC.
Oh yeah…and doctors all over the US were still cutting out people’s brains and performing lobotomies to treat mental illnesses.

.

A lot has changed and has been learned since then, especially in the medical/psychiatric profession.

It’s called progress, not propaganda.

teach me because I haven’t seen anything worth learning other than the propaganda.

I see you are quoting a study from forty years ago.

For the record, what study is it you think I am quoting?

I look at the facts and the truth.

what are the facts? Where is the truth?

 

[adrift]

teach me because I haven’t seen anything worth learning other than the propaganda.

For the record, what study is it you think I am quoting?

what are the facts? Where is the truth?

I was wondering what study so much for facts and truth.

 

[fix]

I see you are quoting a study from forty years ago.
In 1974, Nixon was president, Cher was still married to Sonny, Patty Hearst was
kidnapped by Symbionese Liberation Army, Hank Aron was still at bat, and the World Trade Center was just going up in NYC.
Oh yeah…and doctors all over the US were still cutting out people’s brains and performing lobotomies to treat mental illnesses.
A lot has changed and has been learned since then, especially in the medical/psychiatric profession.

It’s called progress, not propaganda.

I look at the facts and the truth.

.

Uh huh. We now have “transgender” surgery, two men pretend to be married, children are indoctrinated into “gay” ideology, and credentialed misfits promote evil ideologies as science and truth. We went from bad to worse.

 

[Abu]

Researchers Peter Bearman and Hannah Brückner, from Columbia and Yale respectively, studied data from the National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health, and found even lower concordance rates of only 6.7% for male and 5.3% for female identical twins. In fact, their study neatly refuted several of the biological theories for the origin of homosexuality, finding social experiences in childhood to be far more significant.
If it was not clear in the 1990’s, it certainly is now—no one is “born gay.”
[Peter S. Bearman and Hannah Brückner, *Opposite-Sex Twins and Adolescent Same-Sex Attraction, American Journal of Sociology Vol. 107, No. 5, (March 2002), 1179-1205].

**Is Homosexuality a Choice?
Answer by Fr.Stephen F. Torraco (EWTN) on 27/6/2008: **
"The hypothetical question that you have a homosexual ask you is faulty. The question presupposes or implies that heterosexuality and homosexuality are on the same moral plane. They are not. Heterosexuality is the design of the Creator. Homosexuality is a disorder. You don’t choose to be heterosexual, but you do choose whether you will live it chastely.

“The hypothetical response to your answer to his or her question is also faulty. As I stated before and you have repeated, there is no scientific evidence that anyone is born with the homosexual disorder. A person who is homosexual because of a disordered upbringing did not choose homosexuality; but they were not born with it.”

“There is a whole way of thinking and feeling that occurs long before the inclination to genital acts with persons of the same sex arises in the heart…the disorder itself is rooted in unhealthy emotions.” [Fr John A Harvey, *The Truth About Homosexuality, Ignatius, 1996, p 154-5. Also Elizabeth Moberly’s Homosexuality: A New Christian Ethic, and Gerald van Aardweg’s Homosexuality and Hope, for an analysis of such emotions].

In CCC 2358 concerning those with the disorder: “They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity.” The inclination is a disorder but not sinful if not pursued – in CCC 2357: “tradition has always declared that ‘homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.’ They are contrary to the natural law.”

The promotion of the life-style and the antipathy to normality is aptly described as homomania.

 

[henrikhank]

If homosexuality isn’t a mental illness then what is it?

 

[InSearchofGrace]

If homosexuality isn’t a mental illness then what is it?

It is a moral disorder, if and when acted out or lived out as a lifestyle. In societies where open homosexual expression and same-sex legal partnerships and “marriage” have long been legal, for 10 - 13 years, it remains associated with mental and psychological ailments, as well as other medical problems. You may want to do independent research in your part of the world.
,

 

[henrikhank]

It is a moral disorder, if and when acted out or lived out as a lifestyle. In societies where open homosexual expression and same-sex legal partnerships and “marriage” have long been legal, for 10 - 13 years, it remains associated with mental and psychological ailments, as well as other medical problems. You may want to do independent research in your part of the world.
,

And pedophilia is just a moral disorder as well then?

 

[Slavonic]

If homosexuality isn’t a mental illness then what is it?

A variation of human sexuality.

It is a moral disorder, if and when acted out or lived out as a lifestyle. In societies where open homosexual expression and same-sex legal partnerships and “marriage” have long been legal, for 10 - 13 years, it remains associated with mental and psychological ailments, as well as other medical problems. You may want to do independent research in your part of the world.
,

There is no gay lifestyle. That’s a term first used by anti-gay activists in the 1970s.

 

[InSearchofGrace]

…

There is no gay lifestyle. That’s a term first used by anti-gay activists in the 1970s.

Pro-gay writers and sites say that but there’s no denying there is a gay lifestyle lived by active homosexuals. It does not mean getting up in the morning and putting on sweat pants to go jogging, spending more time at the gourmet section of the market to pick the best cheese to pair with a before-dinner wine, attending a fund-raising event for an animal shelter, talking about the current exhibit in an art gallery or show, etc.

For ten years, I had what you could say is front seat to someone’s life playing out in said lifestyle. He and his male lover were in a same sex domestic partnership in a part of the state known to have a high concentration of gays. There are several things I can add to complete the story of gays living the lifestyle, which is certainly not imagined on my part but it is not necessary for me to disclose more, except one thing. There was talk of adoption of a kid. Thank God, that did not happen, as the relationship began to unravel first. The partner got tired of sneaking, asked to bring in another person (male) into the home for an open sort of arrangement, if you know what I mean. That and other issues loomed, with each party filing restraining orders on the other. I would imagine the break up is not part of a gay lifestyle, as heterosexual relationships break up as well. It is all of the things before that.

That should be enough for you and any with your kind of arguments.
,