Dissent From Catholic Social Teaching: A Study In Irony - Inside The Vatican

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Perhaps you are correct. Perhaps not. The point is A) we have no idea what is included in cost and the margins these folks make and B) the market will either support the prices, or they will not. It BEATS are selling like hotcakes, it is because people are willing to pay for them. I would not extend this sort of heavy-handed pricing with essential items like water, however, assuming the markup involves greed and not recovering actual prior expenditures.
 
WHAT is responsible for this outcome?
That’s the kind of article one would expect of VOX. Here is another perspective on the situation in Seattle.


“The overwhelming thing in the labor market right now is that there’s a labor shortage which is driven by the cost of living,” he said. “If $16 were enough to live on in Seattle, then we would see a lot of jobs posts offering $16, but we don’t. We barely see any.”

Across all of Seattle, the average rent is $2,122, according to data from RentCafe. That means if a person makes $16.39 an hour, that individual would have to work for nearly 130 hours to afford rent. That’s more than three weeks of full time work to afford one month of rent and doesn’t include other necessary costs such as food and transportation – or the tax that’s taken out of each paycheck.

He said when minimum wage has gone up in the past, people began seeing higher wages and bigger paychecks, but they were seeing their expenses go up just as fast, if not faster.

“I think what we’re discovering,” he said, “is these cost of living challenges are really making Seattle a less attractive destination for less educated workers looking for some place to make a living.”


It really doesn’t help a person to get paid more money for his work if what he has to spend to live increases even more. Low wage workers can’t afford to live in Seattle.
 
I really doesn’t help a person to get paid more money for his work if what he has to spend to live increases even more. Low wage workers can’t afford to live in Seattle.
Ender and @Jen95, situation of low wages and no wages (unemployment) looks pretty bleak, doesn’t it? If just getting paid more does not suffice, then there must be more parts to the solution.

Meanwhile, encyclical after encyclical point to the ongoing problem of injustice. A problem that continues to get worse, not better. As Catholics we are called to see and act.
 
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Meanwhile, encyclical after encyclical point to the ongoing problem of injustice. A problem that continues to get worse, not better. As Catholics we are called to see and act.
That hardship exists is not evidence of injustice, and while we are called to act we are not called to act in a particular way. There is no specific solution the church requires or supports. We are free to - and are required to - make choices based on what we think is best. I may think your approach is harmful (and vice versa) but if both of us are doing what we believe is right then while one of us may be terribly mistaken, neither of us has failed our moral obligation.
 
That hardship exists is not evidence of injustice, and while we are called to act we are not called to act in a particular way.
Sporadic incidences of hardship can be treated with acts of charity. What we actually see is widespread hardship, and on the increase.

The encyclicals tell us it is a problem of injustice. First step is to acknowledge it exists.
I may think your approach is harmful (and vice versa) but if both of us are doing what we believe is right then while one of us may be terribly mistaken, neither of us has failed our moral obligation.
Just as we are required to inform our conscience, we are required, insofar as we are able, to read and discern the principles and spirit of the social justice encyclicals.
 
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Oh my yes, what a paradise it is in Seattle! In fact, just a few days ago, 60 Minutes had a segment on what a wonderful place it is to live!
Homelessness is a symptom of injustice. Reasons for homelessness, given in the article you posted (other than rent increases):

“domestic violence, incarceration, mental illness, family conflict, medical conditions, breakups, eviction, addiction, and job loss”

Injustice is at the root, has and is being allowed to grow.
 
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Sporadic incidences of hardship can be treated with acts of charity. What we actually see is widespread hardship, and on the increase.

The encyclicals tell us it is a problem of injustice. First step is to acknowledge it exists.
I think the encyclicals say that injustice exists and it causes hardships, but the existence of hardship is not evidence of injustice. Inequality is not inherently unjust. I admit injustice exists, but I deny that because someone is having a hard time of it this means he has been treated unjustly.
Just as we are required to inform our conscience, we are required, insofar as we are able, to read and discern the principles and spirit of the social justice encyclicals.
The “spirit of the social justice encyclicals.” So far what I have seen of that spirit is the name calling applied to those who disagree with the specific solutions proposed by social justice warriors. Why is it so important to turn these disagreements into tests of moral rectitude? Why isn’t it sufficient to just argue about the proposals without turning those disagreements into “I’m good, you’re evil” conclusions?
 
I see you are reverting to name calling.
Not a bit, but neither will I give a pass to the implication that a difference of opinion over specific, practical proposals constitutes a moral failure.
 
Not really small, autonomous communities. Some of them (Jefferson being the most famous) flirted with agrarian separatism, but in the end they all became centralizing, corporate, capital-Imperialists. Even Jefferson, once he tasted the highest office. The United States itself was formed as a rejection of the Confederation, which was a true attempt at decentralized, autonomy. The USA has been a empire since its founding.
We went to different civic classes. In the end is the tenth amendment of the Bill of Rights limiting the rights of the central government to those enumerated in the Constitution.
Judeo-Christian values. Read: not Catholic values; but this weird, pseudo-Christian, Enlightenment-influenced, buzzword phrase that (when it means anything at all) constitutes something which would be unrecognizable to any Christian from pre-1500 AD.
? What is your point? Are you claiming that God has always been banned from the public square since the founding? If so, you are seriously misinformed.
Free enterprise private-property. Yeah, I’ll give you this one. The real moral standard of the nation was not in any way Christian, but materialistic and secular. Private property (a good) and “free-enterprise” (mostly good) were set up in place of the Highest Good.
Just not true. But the question was to define “socialism” which I did. Do you disagree?
 
Yeah… except for the fact that poor people are more likely to need their cars to travel to work
As I said, there are options, like taxing purchases of large, inefficient vehicles, like SUV’s and one ton duelies to offset gasoline. No one needs any more vehicle that to drive to work than it takes to move their body. My opinion may be a result of where I live where the vast majority of such vehicles have one person in them, and they represent the large majority of vehicles used in commuting. In any case, whatever policy there is, I am saying that the environment is not a special interest. Policies aimed to improve the environment are aimed at all living creatures, present and future.
Can’t disagree with any of that. I suppose the wind subsidies have been effective. But they are still a policy that I would prefer not to have. And then there is ethanol, one if the stupidest, 8diotic, dumb government policies ever.
Agree, disagree, that is the great thing about the Catholic faith. You see, one thing that drives me nuts is when Catholic social justice is dismissed as something that is just “prudential.” Well, prudential doesn’t mean irrelevant. As Pope Francis reminded us, moral values are not negotiable. I see here most, but not all seem to accept this, even in disagreement over what is the best course to social justice. Then there are those that dismiss this all important moral value because there is no one path, trivializing the importance of a topic Jesus said means Heaven and Hell with sarcastic labeling. All followers of Jesus should embrace the role of social justice warrior, conservatives and liberals, as we are fighting for Jesus, in the thirsty, the hungry, the stranger, and the prisoner.

What we need is one of those Deus Vult meme that reflects what Jesus truly told us God wills in Matthew 25.
 
As I said, there are options, like taxing purchases of large, inefficient vehicles, like SUV’s and one ton duelies to offset gasoline.
The free enterprise solution is to remove all subsidies that artificially lower the price of gas/diesel. The free market price for transportation fuel would efficiently influence the decision to buy low mpg vehicles.

Using the tax code to commit social engineering is often immoral. Or, would your tax plan include a carve out for the faithful Catholic family of 10 that can only afford one vehicle?
 
Using the tax code to commit social engineering is often immoral.
I must have missed that in the catechism. I did find this though from Laudatio Si.
We know that technology based on the use of highly polluting fossil fuels – especially coal, but also oil and, to a lesser degree, gas – needs to be progressively replaced without delay. Until greater progress is made in developing widely accessible sources of renewable energy, it is legitimate to choose the less harmful alternative or to find short-term solutions.
I am not saying I have the answer, though I have no problem with what you call “social engineering” which is just a negative term for leading society one way our another (like the Declaration of Independence). The free enterprise solution does not work so well when the negative effects extend into future generations, and those who are hurt the most also are the class that has the least political power.
Or, would your tax plan include a carve out for the faithful Catholic family of 10 that can only afford one vehicle?
No plan can account for extreme examples that are one in a million, if they even exist at all. You do know, don’t you, that the tax code already has built in a per child exemption? I have never seen anything close to what you describe. I do see all the large vehicles with one driver commuting every day. I have no problem engineering away stupidity and selfishness, waste and short-sightedness.
 
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I am not saying I have the answer, though I have no problem with what you call “social engineering” which is just a negative term for leading society one way our another
What I call social engineering is when one person concludes he has the right and ability to decide how others should live their lives with regard to what they do or do not need. Like Mayor Bloomberg’s NY law that banned sodas larger than 16 ounces…or your suggestion that: “No one needs any more vehicle that to drive to work than it takes to move their body.”
…one thing that drives me nuts is when Catholic social justice is dismissed as something that is just “prudential.” Well, prudential doesn’t mean irrelevant. As Pope Francis reminded us, moral values are not negotiable.
Prudential does not mean irrelevant, but it does mean an opinion about the application of moral principles. It is not the principles that are negotiable, but their application to specific situations, and there is nothing in the Catholic faith or its social teachings that suggests otherwise.

Arguments about which proposals will work best in given situations are valid. Suggestions that one plan is more moral than another are not.
 
. You do know, don’t you, that the tax code already has built in a per child exemption?
You are apparently behind in your reading on the tax code.
Before 2018, taxpayers could claim a personal exemption for themselves and each of their dependents. The amount would have been $4,150 for 2018, but the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) set the amount at zero for 2018 through 2025.
 
Before 2018, taxpayers could claim a personal exemption for themselves and each of their dependents. The amount would have been $4,150 for 2018, but the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) set the amount at zero for 2018 through 2025.
😭 I was just going to comment that the exemption only benefits those who make enough money to be assessed that much in taxes to begin with. Incredible.
 
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Well, I guess we should all have a fleet of vehicles for every occasion.
Pnewton doesn’t want me to drive the family vehicle, so I guess I should drive a tiny passenger car to work. And so should my spouse! What if I want to go to the grocery store, with precisely one child?
Which vehicle should I drive, pnewton?
 
Agree, disagree, that is the great thing about the Catholic faith. You see, one thing that drives me nuts is when Catholic social justice is dismissed as something that is just “prudential.” Well, prudential doesn’t mean irrelevant.
Well, I have read the entire Compendium of Catholic Social Doctrine. Unlike some, I recognize it as it is titled, part of the Church’s teaching. And while applying much of it to actual political policies does require Prudential judgement, I happen to think applying it to our individual actions is more cut and dried. For example, the Church commands a just wage. If I am an employee, I am morally bound to do so.
 
No, the way the text exemption works is that you take the exemptions off your income, resulting in an amount on which your taxes are based.

A lot of people end up owing little to nothing on their taxes as a result of this reduction.
 
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