Disturbing allegations

[Zeldarocks]

My dad believes the Church to be the whore of Revelation; he is ardently convinced of the efficacy of Solar Scriptura, and is happy with being a bible christian. Alas, I don’t see him swimming the Tiber anytime soon.

 

[RebeccaJ]

1. Why are you beginning RCIA so late? I thought this program started in September.

FWIW, RCIA should be a year long formation. When it is implemented as year round, it just keep going perpetually. Ours will have a group enter during Advent. These folks won’t be baptized until 2013.

 

[Hesychios]

My father showed me some stuff which links the muslim faith, catholicism, and the masonic brotherhood; I found this to be extremely disconcerting, especially considering im planning on beginning with RCIA in the immediate future. Here’s the link in question:
babylonmysteryreligion.com/The%20Islam%20Connection.htm

What really bothered me was the symbolism in the monstrance; somebody please set me straight.

That site has many historical innacuracies, and ties together many things that are not relevant to each other.

The first bold-faced lie he makes is the claim that Khadijah was a Roman Catholic nun! … and surpisingly it pretty much goes downhill from there.

The whole website is like a badly executed spoof.

This person is no scholar, he is a spinmaster whose claims would not pass a peer review lacking in basic Christian ethics. As we all know backbiting and lying (especially about the things of God) are sins.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

People who hate the Catholic Church spend a lot of time looking at symbols of the Church, then trying to compare them to whatever they think will make the Church look bad - Islam, Satanism, Paganism, etc.

There are only a limited number of symbols in the world, and different people will use them for different things.

By the logic of the website, you shouldn’t be using any products made by Proctor and Gamble, either:

What I never understand is why people think that a massive undercover conspiracy would have infiltrated the Church - and then risk exposure by openly using the conspiracy’s symbols. Why? For a schoolboy’s prank?

 

[vsedriver]

My dad showed me that sort of stuff because I was demonstrating an interest in becoming Catholic; he’s been trying to dissuade me from swimming he Tiber

have your dad pick out one item at a time and then research it and give him the knowledge of what is true and what isn’t. Many people need to put down another faith to justify keeping their current faith. After all, if you switch religions what does that say about his religion? You both can’t be right. This is why parents get very upset when their children change faiths.

Assure your father that you are seeking truth. He may back off thinking that eventually you’ll learn the awful truth about Catholicism and come back to the family faith. But I believe you will find the fullness of the faith in Catholicism and find Christ’s Truth in the Church He founded.

 

[wisdomseeker]

My father showed me some stuff which links the muslim faith, catholicism, and the masonic brotherhood; I found this to be extremely disconcerting, especially considering im planning on beginning with RCIA in the immediate future. Here’s the link in question:
babylonmysteryreligion.com/The%20Islam%20Connection.htm

What really bothered me was the symbolism in the monstrance; somebody please set me straight.

Here is a good place to start.

star.ucl.ac.uk/~vgg/rc/aplgtc/hahn/m3/Mod3.html

 

[wisdomseeker]

My dad believes the Church to be the whore of Revelation; he is ardently convinced of the efficacy of Solar Scriptura, and is happy with being a bible christian. Alas, I don’t see him swimming the Tiber anytime soon.

I know of many protestants who are terrified of the CC. the reason being is that it is the tactic of protestantism to use fear to keep people away from teh CC. Nothing else could keep a person away from the Holy Church of God unless he uses fear. Fear is very powerful thing and can dominate hearts and minds of people. and we know where fear comes from.

 

[Nita]

…What really bothered me was the symbolism in the monstrance; somebody please set me straight.

Zeldarocks:

Btw, im not a catholic yet, im going to begin the rcia process over the next week hopefully; my concern regarding the sun and moon was with the monstrance: the fact that it holds a crescent moon symbol underneath where the host sits; with the rays of light representing the shining sun…

Perhaps it will help to know the imagery of the sun being used in connection with God is Biblical. It originated in the Bible – long before there even were Muslim or Masons.
*2 Samuel 23:3-4 The God of Israel has spoken, the Rock of Israel has said to me: When one rules justly over men, ruling in the fear of God, he dawns on them like the morning light, like the sun shining forth upon a cloudless morning,

Psalm 84:11 For the LORD God is a sun and shield; he bestows favor and honor.

Isaiah 60:19-20 The sun shall be no more your light by day, nor for brightness shall the moon give light to you by night; but the LORD will be your everlasting light, and your God will be your glory. 60:20 Your sun shall no more go down, nor your moon withdraw itself; for the LORD will be your everlasting light,

Malachi 4:2 But for you who fear my name the sun of righteousness shall rise, with healing in its wings.

Matt 17:2 And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun,
Rev 1:16 in his right hand he held seven stars, from his mouth issued a sharp two-edged sword, and his face was like the sun shining in full strength*.
(I have never seen a monstrance with a moon on it.)

 

[utunumsint]

Muhammad married Khadija, when he was 25 and she was 40. Her cousin Waraquah was also a Roman Catholic Meccan.

He was actually not Roman Catholic. He was Nestoria. Big difference.

Khadija lived in a Roman Catholic convent, so we can call her a Roman Catholic Nun.

No evidence for this at all.

Here you have in a catholic mass the sun and moon. The strait sun reys are the male and the wavey ones the female. Intresting note, on the bottom you have the letters (S F S) in the Greek alphabet (S) is the 6th letter and (F) is the 6th letter in the English alphabet. 666

From this link:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=76185
See Verbum Caro’s response.

And

1. As Bro. Rich points out there is some inscription below the 3 letters that may have some bearing on the meaning of the letters. The image is not clear enough.

1. As Bro. Rich also points out the letters may stand for anything, really. It could be a latin acronym, the acronym of the name of a religious order, an acronym another language, etc.

1. It may even be a maker’s mark or artists monogram. See collections.osb.hu/cgi-bin/ta…0&kep=dscn2492 for another example (read the description)

1. It may not even be a Catholic monstrance. I think Episcopalians use them too? Do others?

1. Why would SFS = 666? Why not SSS? Doesn’t that seem to be a strange polyalphabetic substitution cipher?

1. How can anyone assign any sinister meaning to this when they produce ONLY ONE EXAMPLE. They MUST show other examples of the use SFS to be even REMOTELY credible. I can’t find any other examples. So, this leads me to beleive it is of “local” signifacance only (e.g. artist initals, order’s acronym, etc.).

1. This seems dangerously close to slander, since there seems to be a total disregard for the truth or falsity of the statement, or at least any sufficient proof offered. Those who repeat this accusation uncritically also seem to be acting without charity or regard for the Truth. Is it “Bearing false witness”? Perhaps. And we should be on guard against that.

Also, I’ve never seen another monstrance with the leters SFS on it.

Here is a monstrance that doesn’t use the crecent. ALso it only have straight rays. No female ones!

savior.org/

The pope reanacts the rebirth of the sun by placing the round wafer into the half moon.

Honestly, this has nothing to do with what the church actually teaches about the Eucharist and concecration. Read the Catechism of the Catholic CHurch for details.

NOTE: The symbol of Catholicism is the star and moon.We find this ritual in the most interesting of place.

Really? Who says? Why is the star and moon the symbol of Catholicism? Does he provide any official evidence for this? I mean, any good conspiracy theory needs some evidence… Why not use the flag for the vatican?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Vatican_City.svg

This glass design is found in a Catholic Church in New Orleans. What is at the bottom the star and moon. Lets see if we flip the symbol up side down. Wow, the male and female image. You say it’s for the New Orleans Police, tell me what does the police have anything to do with church?

Really? He bases this on an image in one church in New Orleans?

Who gave rise to whom? Obviously the one who came first can only give rise to the one that comes second and not the second that gives rise to the one that rises first. Islam and Catholicism is the same religion. Let’s find more evidence.

This is truly priceless! Without analyzing the content or the theology of either religion, he comes to this conclusion based on symbols!!!

Zeldarocks - Please give your father a Catechism of the Catholic church. Tell him to find out what the church really teaches. Then give your father the Koran. Ask him to find out what the Koran really teaches. Then ask him to show you where the two religions are the same.

God bless,
Ut

 

[Arizona_Mike]

zeldarocks - BTW, since your father directed you to that site, which is run by a Seventh Day Adventist, you might ask him if he follows their beliefs as well, which are not held by many mainline Protestant sects - as they insist that Saturday, not Sunday, as the day for worship. This is a recently new development, as all Christians worshipped on Sunday until 1846 when the Adventists rejected it. The 7th Day Adventist sect only began in that year, it is a very new sect.

7th Day Adventists appear to hold a particular hatred of the Catholic Church because of this Sunday worship issue.

They originated out of the Millerite movement, one of many new religious movements (including the Mormon and the Spiritualist movements) that began in the “Burnt-Out Zone” of upstate New York, and which predicted a series of precise dates when Jesus would return, first predicted to happen between the Spring of 1843 and the Spring of 1844. When that didn’t happen, they predicted Jesus would return on October 22, 1844. When that didn’t happen, they began a new doctrine that the end of the world began in 1844, when God began his eschatological “Investigative Judgment” that will culminate in the end of the world, and in which God’s judgment of mankind will be vindicated before the Universe (I find that bizarre, but there you go), but they are hedging their bets and will not give an actual date for the Second Coming any more.

They were generally considered to be a cult by most mainstream Protestant churches (much as many of them view the LDS today), especially as they followed the Arian heresy (that heresy’s founder, Arius, was the guy that St. Nicholas K.O.'ed at the Council of Nicea, BTW). They only adopted a belief in the Trinity early in the 20th century, and began working hard to be recognized as mainline Protestants.

Among other beliefs shared with many Evangelicals, they have some less-popular doctrines - they believe there is no immortal soul and that we go through “soul sleep” upon death until the second coming, as humans are an indivisible combination of body, mind and spirit; that one of their founders, Ellen G. White, is considered to be a new Prophet and that her writings are continuing and authoritative but second to the Bible; and they don’t believe in Hell, but are Annihilationists - that is, the wicked are snuffed from existence as a punishment. They keep Kosher dietary practices and encourage vegetarianism.

The Branch Davidians were a 7th-Day Adventist schism that split off in 1929.

It may be that your dad is a 7th Day Adventist and is cool with some of their heterodox beliefs, which aren’t shared by most Protestants; but if not, you may wish to ask him if he would accept assertions about the Catholic Church from a source that holds such beliefs.

 

[Arizona_Mike]

The 7th Day Adventists’ particular focus on the Catholic Church as having changed the day of the Sabbath is based on Daniel 7:25, as the beast “of the calendar and ordinance he shall think to set aside.”

Another interesting lie on that site. The website owner shows a couple of out-of-focus shots of a stained glass window that shows an abstract design with the New Orleans Police Department badge underneath:

“This glass design is found in a Catholic Church in New Orleans. What is at the bottom the star and moon. Lets see if we flip the symbol up side down. Wow, the male and female image. You say it’s for the New Orleans Police, tell me what does the police [sic] have anything to do with church?”

Well, it clearly** is** a New Orleans Police Badge. It says so right on it: “NEW ORLEANS CITY POLICE”.

I recognize the badge, and you can google “New Orleans Police Badge” and see the same easily recognizable design.

If you flip it upside down (why?) yes, the crescent is on the bottom. If you turn a New Orleans police badge upside down in front of a NOPD officer, he might clobber you, especially if he’s a Catholic and knows you run an anti-Catholic website.

Surprisingly, the New Orleans PD did not elect to use a symbol of the Papist Anti-Christ on their badge. The actual symbolism, as described on the PD official website, is rather more benign:

The Star and Crescent badge, unique to the NOPD, has been worn by members of the department since 1855. The crescent represents the shape of the city, as the Mississippi River forms a crescent shape around the city. The star represents the power of a state or local government to preserve order and keep the peace; it is a traditional symbol of law enforcement authority in the United States.

nola.gov/GOVERNMENT/NOPD/NOPD-Home/New-Orleans-Police-Badge/

So, why is there an NOPD badge in a stained glass window in a New Orleans Catholic Church (or as the website owner says in his own illiterate fashion, “You say it’s for the New Orleans Police, tell me what does the police have anything to do with church?”)

I have no idea. Are there any readers of this thread in New Orleans who can identify this window? I’m guessing it could be in a police District headquarters or fallen officer memorial.

Here is a better view of that stained glass window on flickr (I won’t link the photo directly as it is copyrighted, but you can see the image more clearly here: )

flickr.com/photos/neilcar/4216450989/

 

[Bob_Crowley]

My dad believes the Church to be the whore of Revelation; he is ardently convinced of the efficacy of Solar Scriptura, and is happy with being a bible christian. Alas, I don’t see him swimming the Tiber anytime soon.

The choice is yours. He has to answer for himself.

Like I said, there’s a lot of garbage spread amongst Protestants regarding the Catholic Church. There really is.

 

[thistle]

This was apparently put together by a religious professor; the claims are extremely disturbing… they make me hesitate regarding my coming to Rome

Its total fiction. This type of thing is often dreamed up by Catholic haters who are driven by Satan to try prevent people from converting to the truth.

I was a Methodist before converting 20 years. The day I became a Catholic was the best day of my life and I have never had any regrets.

 

[Ignatius]

My father showed me some stuff which links the muslim faith, catholicism, and the masonic brotherhood; I found this to be extremely disconcerting, especially considering im planning on beginning with RCIA in the immediate future. Here’s the link in question:
babylonmysteryreligion.com/The%20Islam%20Connection.htm

What really bothered me was the symbolism in the monstrance; somebody please set me straight.

Actually, Islam (Muslems) are closer to Protestants. They believe in Scripture Alone and Faith Alone to be saved. Actually, Mohamed had a wife who was a follower of the Arian heresy, which is also the basis of some Protestant denominations.

 

[Armyvet007]

I looked at the site. It’s pure BS. A town an hour away from where I live has a building with swatiskas incorporated into it’s brick work. The building was built during the late 1800s and incorporated native american motiffs/symbols into it. Does this mean that that native american tribe had a secret pact with an evil european political regime that did not exist at the time of the building’s construction? Or does it mean that symbols are some of the oldest forms of human communication, there is a finate number of important ones, and that it is common to find these important ones used by various faiths and cultures?

Pay no attention to sites such as that. If you wish to examine the Church and it’s “linkages” with these other organizations/faiths, I suggest you look for a scholarly work that is unbiased [either for or against the Church]. That and examine the Church’s history itself. Claiming that there is a secret pact between the Catholic Church and the masonic brotherhood is as about as valid as a Mormon Radio DJ turned radio “prophet” claiming he has high placed friends within the Vatican that fully support his work [yes, Glenn Beck].

If it sounds like a cool ultra super secret conspiracy theory that no one knows about, yet can be found all over the internet, I suggest you ignore it and move on.

 

[pnewton]

This site is a re-hash of something that has been around since the ninteenth century (see here):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hislop

Now Muslims are lumped into this logical fallacy because they are the hot button for America today. It is all based on the assumption that since there is some similarity between two things that they must be connected, or even worse, one caused the other. Pseudo-historians have used this for all sort of wild theories, like the Egyptians settling Mesoamerica because they both have pyramids. We can come up with all sorts of speculations based on this fallacy, if we wish to ignore any real facts. We can claim that the Seattle Space Needle is a secret Islamic minaret because of the similar shape. George Washington was a Catholic because the Washington Monument is shaped like an obelisk. Also, the city of Washington is laid out like a monstrance with the white house in the place where the Holy Sacrament resides. So Washington must have thought he was Jesus.

The point is, that when people with an agenda try to look at history to find connections, they can always use this fallacy to connect unrelated events and times. They are playing connect the dots with a bunch of random dots in order to draw the picture they wish to see.

 

[utunumsint]

Hi Zelda,

Just though I should mention that your father is asking these questions and making the alegations because he cares about you. I have four kids, and the idea of one of my sons or my daughter converting to another religions falls into my top ten greatest fears.

Try to bring home to him that you are doing this to come closer to Christ.

God bless,
Ut

 

[Jack_Bauer]

My dad believes the Church to be the whore of Revelation; he is ardently convinced of the efficacy of Solar Scriptura, and is happy with being a bible christian. Alas, I don’t see him swimming the Tiber anytime soon.

That must be one bright and burning book.

 

[Bonnie]

This site is a re-hash of something that has been around since the ninteenth century (see here):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Hislop

Hislop was a basket case. In spite of his ridiculous claims, some people believed him. I have a copy of his book - it’s pure torture to try to read it! (And no, I didn’t pay good money for the book. An anti-Catholic sent it to me.)

Ralph Woodrow believed the garbage & wrote a modern version of Hislop’s book. Some years later he actually did some research & realized that Hislop was out in left field. WAY out. So Woodrow wrote a book debunking his own book & Hislop’s, The Babylon Connection?

If you go to Woodrow’s website, you’ll find an explanation.

 

[Zooey]

The 7th Day Adventists’ particular focus on the Catholic Church as having changed the day of the Sabbath is based on Daniel 7:25, as the beast “of the calendar and ordinance he shall think to set aside.”

Another interesting lie on that site. The website owner shows a couple of out-of-focus shots of a stained glass window that shows an abstract design with the New Orleans Police Department badge underneath:

“This glass design is found in a Catholic Church in New Orleans. What is at the bottom the star and moon. Lets see if we flip the symbol up side down. Wow, the male and female image. You say it’s for the New Orleans Police, tell me what does the police [sic] have anything to do with church?”

Well, it clearly** is** a New Orleans Police Badge. It says so right on it: “NEW ORLEANS CITY POLICE”.

I recognize the badge, and you can google “New Orleans Police Badge” and see the same easily recognizable design.

If you flip it upside down (why?) yes, the crescent is on the bottom. If you turn a New Orleans police badge upside down in front of a NOPD officer, he might clobber you, especially if he’s a Catholic and knows you run an anti-Catholic website.

Surprisingly, the New Orleans PD did not elect to use a symbol of the Papist Anti-Christ on their badge. The actual symbolism, as described on the PD official website, is rather more benign:

The Star and Crescent badge, unique to the NOPD, has been worn by members of the department since 1855. The crescent represents the shape of the city, as the Mississippi River forms a crescent shape around the city. The star represents the power of a state or local government to preserve order and keep the peace; it is a traditional symbol of law enforcement authority in the United States.

nola.gov/GOVERNMENT/NOPD/NOPD-Home/New-Orleans-Police-Badge/

So, why is there an NOPD badge in a stained glass window in a New Orleans Catholic Church (or as the website owner says in his own illiterate fashion, “You say it’s for the New Orleans Police, tell me what does the police have anything to do with church?”)

I have no idea. Are there any readers of this thread in New Orleans who can identify this window? I’m guessing it could be in a police District headquarters or fallen officer memorial.

Here is a better view of that stained glass window on flickr (I won’t link the photo directly as it is copyrighted, but you can see the image more clearly here: )

flickr.com/photos/neilcar/4216450989/

Great post!!
In response to the part I have bolded, I am not in NOLA, but I do have a very good idea what that window may be doing in a church:
Stained glass windows are expensive & are often donated by various prominent citizens, and/or community groups. These most always have a small pane which identifies the donor. (My United Methodist church has windows with markings that identify as among the donors: Veterans of Foreign Wars, American Legion Auxiliary, my high school best friend’s grandparents, another church in the town, & my own grandmother’s Sunday School class circa 1910). Five will get you ten that the NOLA police department put together to pay for the window.
[This assumes that it is a church window. I have seen no proof of that].

I have looked the site over which OP linked, & I must tell you, that it is full with what you are in grave danger of stepping in, when you stand too close to the South End of a Northbound horse.
The SDAs that I have met think that us Methodists are also in league with the devil…It doesn’t surprise me that they claim the same for Catholics.
In fact, I can’t think of anybody, offhand, that they aren’t against!!

ETA: In looking around on that site, I was also told that milk & meat are poison, that night lights cause breast cancer, & that caffeine causes constipation, hip fractures, & baby rats born with no eyes.
Diagnosis: Site Created By Loonies.