Divine worship and the rise of ‘feel-good liturgy’

[Brennan_Doherty]

…and don’t forget that we all have cell phones. Walking down the street, driving in the car…there seems to be less silent reflection amongst all of us busy little bees, and a lot more music, talk, interaction, busy busy busy. I too love the silence of the Mass. Silence is golden, after all.

Yes, silence is golden. One of the things I love about the TLM, is that it’s so counter-cultural (particularly American culture). And the silence in the TLM is “built-in”, so to speak, in the liturgy. There’s hardly anything Americans need more than a good dose of silence.

 

[Rosewith]

Congratulations & welcome. I, too, prefer a hushed atmosphere at Mass, the near absence of sound that one finds when “making a visit”…I don’t think that’s done anymore, but we used to just stop by a Church sometimes to pray & there might be 4-5 people there…doing the same thing. I long for the kind of quietness that one finds in our big, old, cavernous Cathedrals. My favorite is the Basilica in St. Louis, Mo. If you’re lucky the choir might be practicing & it’s a bit like heaven to listen to the Sacred music.

stlcathedralconcerts.org/site/index.php?option=com_zoom&Itemid=44&page=view&catid=1&key=22&hit=1

Sorry to say that I haven’t gotten over the need for quietness at Mass. This is one of many reasons that I attend the Traditional Latin Mass.There is no visiting. There are no Extraordinary Eucharistic ministers or lectors, getting out of their seats & finding their way to the Sancutary. Niether do we shake or hold hands. There is stillness & quiet in which one can pray the Mass & worship God in peace. This is a rare thing for me, the absence of talking & “busyness”. It’s quite refreshing after the din of the world has literally worn one down.

In today’s world it seems as if people are almost afraid of silence & what they might “hear” within it. There is always a TV. in the background or a radio blaring.

Now, it seems to me that these posters have expressed a need to “feel good” of the sort they condemn in others. I think the main difference is in what “floats their boat.”

 

[ethelzguy]

Now, it seems to me that these posters have expressed a need to “feel good” of the sort they condemn in others. I think the main difference is in what “floats their boat.”

Driving 50 miles past multiple parishes to attend a TLM because it makes one feel good, is “good”…attending a regular Mass at your home parish or a LifeTeen Mass because it makes one feel good, is “bad”.

Smell the hypocracy.

 

[KingAlfred]

Yes, silence is golden. One of the things I love about the TLM, is that it’s so counter-cultural (particularly American culture). And the silence in the TLM is “built-in”, so to speak, in the liturgy. There’s hardly anything Americans need more than a good dose of silence.

I couldn’t agree more. I fight this battle as a teacher every day at work. Many of my co-workers are obsessed with sitting together in the lounge every free moment, talking, talking, talking, talking. I, on the other hand, need some peace and quiet. In fact, our ‘studentless’ moments are established by law to permit us to gather our thoughts and take a break from the hustle-bustle of 180 kids under our supervision. Some of my co-workers routinely ask, “Why don’t you hang out in the lounge with us?” I always issue my stock-answer: “I need some quiet time. I need a break from noise.”

 

[SJP]

Yes, silence is golden. One of the things I love about the TLM, is that it’s so counter-cultural (particularly American culture). And the silence in the TLM is “built-in”, so to speak, in the liturgy. There’s hardly anything Americans need more than a good dose of silence.

I have heard people say that language is the largest barrier for those who are new to the EF. That may be true in some or even most cases, but I think the silence is also a factor.

When I first began attending the EF I remember thinking "What am I supposed to be doing? Why is it so quiet? Why isn’t the Priest talking to us?

I had grown so accustomed to the constant “action” in the OF that I felt lost in the EF.

Oh how I’ve changed! Now, I cherish the silence of the EF. There is so much freedom in the silence! It allows me to contemplate what is happening before me, it allows me to reflect on what I’m experiencing. Sometimes I’ll follow the Propers for the day, other times I’ll follow the Prayers of the Priest, still other times, I’ll pray privately. There really is a freedom built into the EF that is simply impossible in the OF.

I find it almost impossible to concentrate during the OF and I think a part of the reason for that is the constant talking! Introductory rites, Gloria, reading, responsorial psalm, reading, Gospel, Homily, Creed, Prayers of the Faithful… One after another like bullets coming out of an automatic machine gun! We’re 40 minutes into Mass and there has been nothing but talk. I feel like standing up and saying: “Can you please be quiet for two minutes so we can pray!”

Now I know that people will say: "You can reflect on the readings, you can reflect on the Responsorial psalm… but how deep can the reflection be? By the time you begin to meditate on one thing, it’s time to steam roll on to the next!

As Dr. William Marra once said: “We use to be the Praying Church, now, we’re the talking Church!”

Catherine Pickstock, Adam DeVille and others have done some fantastic work on “time and the liturgy” that is related to some of the issues that we’re discussing, I’ll post some of it later.

 

[ethelzguy]

I find it almost impossible to concentrate during the OF and I think a part of the reason for that is the constant talking! Introductory rites, Gloria, reading, responsorial psalm, reading, Gospel, Homily, Creed, Prayers of the Faithful… One after another like bullets coming out of an automatic machine gun! We’re 40 minutes into Mass and there has been nothing but talk. I feel like standing up and saying: “Can you please be quiet for two minutes so we can pray!”

I am curious as to the repeated commentary about “silent prayer” AT Mass. Do we not have 23 other hours each day for “silent prayer” as we wish? Why is it that people feel the need to do their personal silent prayer DURING the Mass?

Shouldn’t our time at Mass be focused on the Mass itself, and not our personal prayer?

 

[Fitswimmer]

I am curious as to the repeated commentary about “silent prayer” AT Mass. Do we not have 23 other hours each day for “silent prayer” as we wish? Why is it that people feel the need to do their personal silent prayer DURING the Mass?

Shouldn’t our time at Mass be focused on the Mass itself, and not our personal prayer?

I could say the same thing about being vocal. I don’t think it’s a real stretch to say that for most of us, those 23 other hours have more noise in them than silence. 6 days a week we get to listen to constant noise in the workplace, noise at home, just general noise everywhere. Is it that big a leap to imagine that for a little of an hour, one day a week people might like to have some time that is focused on a quiet contemplation of the mystery of God? Maybe people might be listening carefully for what God might be saying to them?

 

[SJP]

I could say the same thing about being vocal. I don’t think it’s a real stretch to say that for most of us, those 23 other hours have more noise in them than silence. 6 days a week we get to listen to constant noise in the workplace, noise at home, just general noise everywhere. Is it that big a leap to imagine that for a little of an hour, one day a week people might like to have some time that is focused on a quiet contemplation of the mystery of God? Maybe people might be listening carefully for what God might be saying to them?

Exactly!

Furthermore, it’s not about my personal silent prayer, it’s about having the opportunity to reflect on what is happening at the Mass!

 

[Fitswimmer]

Exactly!

Furthermore, it’s not about my personal silent prayer, it’s about having the opportunity to reflect on what is happening at the Mass!

True-my silence allows me to join with the hearts and souls of the community that I’m praying with as we ALL contemplate the mystery of what is happening. Since when did only vocal participation count as active?

 

[Rosewith]

Driving 50 miles past multiple parishes to attend a TLM because it makes one feel good, is “good”…attending a regular Mass at your home parish or a LifeTeen Mass because it makes one feel good, is “bad”.

Smell the hypocracy.

Yep.

 

[Brother_Kevin]

As a member of a men’s Catholic religious order, I have become spoiled. We have Mass here in the Brother’s residence. When I walk into the chapel, there is utter silence despite the presence of 11 other people.

All through the Daily Office, all through the Liturgy, the only sounds I hear are the prayer leader, the Celebrant and the voices of the responses at the appropriate moments.

Sometimes, someone sneezes. Or coughs.

That’s it.

No one leans over before Office or Liturgy begins and starts up a loud, lengthy conversation with a neighbor about some extraneous, mundane detail.

No one opens up a rustling plastic or paper bag full of Cheerios and nibbles on them throughout the Mass.

There are no unruly children walking around the chapel or chattering throughout the entire Mass.

When we have music it is either a recorded Gregorian chant that is played as a Communion meditation song, or else we all join in singing with no instrumental accompaniment.

I go to Mass in the local parish when I visit my father on the occasional weekend. I’ve also attended Liturgy in many other local parishes, as well as in churches in other states (5 other states, to be exact). The same things appear to be happening in Catholic Churches everywhere.

I have seen people come to liturgy wearing the clothes they were wearing while they cut the grass. How do I know they’re the same clothes? Because they’re covered in grass clippings.
Sometimes, people show up wearing wrinkled sweat suits, obviously having just woken up, grabbed the car keys and driving to Church. Or wearing beach clothes. Or items more suited to nightclub; leaving very little to the imagination.

I’ve seen people very obviously and openly chewing gum all through the Liturgy and then walking up to receive Communion. Did they swallow the gum? Did they just push it to the side while consuming the Host?

Trying to pray before (and often during) the Liturgy has become an exercise in futility. There is so much chatter going on that private prayer is impossible for me. Sadly, most of the time this chatter is coming from very elderly people, OR FROM THE CHOIR. People who, one would think, should know better.

Now I understand that elderly people have difficulty getting out sometimes, and that the church might be one of the only times they get to spend time with their friends. But I can hear every word of their conversation from 50 to 100 feet away, fer gossakes!

I have a bit of a problem with members of the choir talking and laughing so loudly before Mass that I can hear them from that far away as well.

Lately, when I hear a very young child making a racket in church I’ve been telling myself, “At least his mother didn’t abort him!” and that helps me focus.

But quite honestly, going to Mass in the local parish can often become an intolerable experience. It is all I can do not to get up and leave.

Call me crazy, but I think that when I (we) go to Church I (we) ought to be allowed to pray. It strikes me as a reasonable expectation. But quite honestly, the inside of a Catholic Church before Mass begins is indistinguishable from the inside of a movie theater before the lights go down.

It wasn’t always this way. I can clearly remember being able to go to Mass and actually pray. I don’t remember seeing people having what amounts to picnics in the pews during the Mass. I don’t remember sitting behind people who are sharing recipes and family photos with each other.

Some parishes have extremely early Liturgies on Sunday mornings, and I find that people that attend those tend not to bring children who have not been taught how to behave in public. They also tend not to eat their breakfast in the pews or snack on other foods before (or during!) the Mass. Sadly, these early morning Sunday liturgies are becoming harder to find. At least where I live.

As I said, I’m probably spoiled. But it seems that the behavior of some people in the pews is such that prayer and even reverence is no longer possible.

 

[CradleCath]

:whacky:

I couldn’t agree more. I fight this battle as a teacher every day at work. Many of my co-workers are obsessed with sitting together in the lounge every free moment, talking, talking, talking, talking. I, on the other hand, need some peace and quiet. In fact, our ‘studentless’ moments are established by law to permit us to gather our thoughts and take a break from the hustle-bustle of 180 kids under our supervision. Some of my co-workers routinely ask, “Why don’t you hang out in the lounge with us?” I always issue my stock-answer: “I need some quiet time. I need a break from noise.”

Me too & I’m not a teacher. If I were I’d probably keep ear plugs with me at all times. It’s a good thing that my work lies elsewhere. But, I do thank you & all teachers for the good that you do!!!::bowdown2:

 

[CradleCath]

SJP;3933201]I have heard people say that language is the largest barrier for those who are new to the EF. That may be true in some or even most cases, but I think the silence is also a factor.

When I first began attending the EF I remember thinking "What am I supposed to be doing? Why is it so quiet? Why isn’t the Priest talking to us?

I had grown so accustomed to the constant “action” in the OF that I felt lost in the EF.

Oh how I’ve changed! Now, I cherish the silence of the EF. There is so much freedom in the silence! It allows me to contemplate what is happening before me, it allows me to reflect on what I’m experiencing. Sometimes I’ll follow the Propers for the day, other times I’ll follow the Prayers of the Priest, still other times, I’ll pray privately. There really is a freedom built into the EF that is simply impossible in the OF.

I find it almost impossible to concentrate during the OF and I think a part of the reason for that is the constant talking! Introductory rites, Gloria, reading, responsorial psalm, reading, Gospel, Homily, Creed, Prayers of the Faithful… One after another like bullets coming out of an automatic machine gun! We’re 40 minutes into Mass and there has been nothing but talk. I feel like standing up and saying: "Can you please be quiet for two minutes so we can pray!"

I have thought the very same thing, myself. If you ever do it have someone video you. You can put it on youtube & half of the Catholic world will stand & cheer when they see it.

I also had trouble the first few times I started attending the TLM after 40 years of the Novus Ordo. Fortunately the priest spoke to us about that before Mass. “You don’t have to ‘keep up’ with me, he said & don’t worry if you are mad uncomfortable by the silence. That will pass as you become used to it. Just relax the first few times you attend this Mass of the Ages, & enjoy it.”

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Driving 50 miles past multiple parishes to attend a TLM because it makes one feel good, is “good”…attending a regular Mass at your home parish or a LifeTeen Mass because it makes one feel good, is “bad”.

Smell the hypocracy.

Obviously, the reasons people attend a TLM Mass go far deeper than how it makes them feel (as it should).

This is evidenced by the reasons authors such as Dietrich von Hildebrand give (as in my signature line article) for assisting at the TLM (which has really nothing to do with how it makes them feel).

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

I have heard people say that language is the largest barrier for those who are new to the EF. That may be true in some or even most cases, but I think the silence is also a factor.

When I first began attending the EF I remember thinking "What am I supposed to be doing? Why is it so quiet? Why isn’t the Priest talking to us?

I had grown so accustomed to the constant “action” in the OF that I felt lost in the EF.

Oh how I’ve changed! Now, I cherish the silence of the EF. There is so much freedom in the silence! It allows me to contemplate what is happening before me, it allows me to reflect on what I’m experiencing. Sometimes I’ll follow the Propers for the day, other times I’ll follow the Prayers of the Priest, still other times, I’ll pray privately. There really is a freedom built into the EF that is simply impossible in the OF.

I find it almost impossible to concentrate during the OF and I think a part of the reason for that is the constant talking! Introductory rites, Gloria, reading, responsorial psalm, reading, Gospel, Homily, Creed, Prayers of the Faithful… One after another like bullets coming out of an automatic machine gun! We’re 40 minutes into Mass and there has been nothing but talk. I feel like standing up and saying: “Can you please be quiet for two minutes so we can pray!”

Now I know that people will say: "You can reflect on the readings, you can reflect on the Responsorial psalm… but how deep can the reflection be? By the time you begin to meditate on one thing, it’s time to steam roll on to the next!

As Dr. William Marra once said: “We use to be the Praying Church, now, we’re the talking Church!”

Catherine Pickstock, Adam DeVille and others have done some fantastic work on “time and the liturgy” that is related to some of the issues that we’re discussing, I’ll post some of it later.

Really good points, SJP (and I like Dr. Marra quite a bit as well).

I also completely agree with the freedom (which might seem ironic, but it’s true) in the TLM.

It reminds me of this from Pope Pius XII’s encyclical on the liturgy, Mediator Dei:

1. …So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei_en.html

 

[Rosewith]

Obviously, the reasons people attend a TLM Mass go far deeper than how it makes them feel (as it should).

This is evidenced by the reasons authors such as Dietrich von Hildebrand give (as in my signature line article) for assisting at the TLM (which has really nothing to do with how it makes them feel).

Attending Mass of any rite should be about more than “feeling good.” Do you believe that the Ordinary Rite is defective? Would that not be a schismatic stance?

 

[CradleCath]

Attending Mass of any rite should be about more than “feeling good.” Do you believe that the Ordinary Rite is defective? Would that not be a schismatic stance?

Could you “turn up” the font you use for your messages a bit. I can hardly read them.

 

[CradleCath]

Really good points, SJP (and I like Dr. Marra quite a bit as well).

I also completely agree with the freedom (which might seem ironic, but it’s true) in the TLM.

It reminds me of this from Pope Pius XII’s encyclical on the liturgy, Mediator Dei:

1. …So varied and diverse are men’s talents and characters that it is impossible for all to be moved and attracted to the same extent by community prayers, hymns and liturgical services. Moreover, the needs and inclinations of all are not the same, nor are they always constant in the same individual. Who, then, would say, on account of such a prejudice, that all these Christians cannot participate in the Mass nor share its fruits? On the contrary, they can adopt some other method which proves easier for certain people; for instance, they can lovingly meditate on the mysteries of Jesus Christ or perform other exercises of piety or recite prayers which, though they differ from the sacred rites, are still essentially in harmony with them.

vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_20111947_mediator-dei_en.html

I’m still having trouble realizing that I can just kneel & praise God after I receive Communion. 40 years of N.O. indoctrination won’t go away immediately…for me, anyway. I follow the Mass in my missal, as I used to do when the Traditional Mass was the only one.

I can’t tell you how it affected me when I read the entire Roman Canon for the first time in so many years. Eucharistic Prayer #1., just wasn’t done at my Novus Ordo parish.

 

[ethelzguy]

Obviously, the reasons people attend a TLM Mass go far deeper than how it makes them feel (as it should).

This is evidenced by the reasons authors such as Dietrich von Hildebrand give (as in my signature line article) for assisting at the TLM (which has really nothing to do with how it makes them feel).

I have seen the reasons for travelling long distances to attend a TLM couched in many ways, but the bottom line is that it IS about how it makes the attendee feel toward/about their faith.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

Attending Mass of any rite should be about more than “feeling good.” Do you believe that the Ordinary Rite is defective? Would that not be a schismatic stance?

I believe the NO is valid. I don’t believe it portrays the Catholic Faith with the strength of the TLM or that it is an organic development of the liturgy. This is not a schismatic stance. Catholics are not required to believe that prudential decisions of the Pope (such as releasing a new liturgy) are automatically wise and prudent.