Divorce and the ugly things that go with it

[jules11]

I’m aware that most of you are in the US, and I am in Australia, so law wise, it will be different.
But I want to know how others with divorce/property settlement/child custody issues coped.
I mean, what we supposedly had, (the love I mean) has been reduced to solicitors and courts now.
I am not coping today. I just want this to go away.
I have been ringing lawyers half the day trying to get advice. I have never done this, I haven’t got a clue about these things.
To top it off, I just CAN’T afford a lawyer!
I have to pay a mortgage on my own and have three children at private schools! Not to mention all the other bills. I only work three days a week as I have a 2 1/2 yo son and three teenagers to look after.
I bought my house 15 years ago. I was in it for 12 years before he moved in when we married. He helped pay the mortgage for 9 months of the three years he was here. I don’t feel he is owed anything. Every major thing, even his 10 thousand dollar vasectomy reversal, was put on the loan and I am paying for it still!!!
Every single thing we did, our wedding, our holidays, the car, house renovations were put on the home loan, that I am paying.

I am so upset that I have to do this. I am upset at the stress this is causing me and the point is, I cannot pay him out. I cannot sell the house as there will be me and 4 children on the street!
This whole thing is insane. He knows how tight our money is. He knows I could not raise any money to give him. My house is old and in need of major repairs, I can’t give him anything. He contributed very little to this house and left me that many times during the three years, that he was hardly even here!
When I was on maternity leave with our son, and his income was the only money we had, he refused on a couple of occasions, to even pay for the mortgage when he had left me! I had to borrow it from a friend!

I have been told that I may have to sell the house to pay him out but not to worry… Oh yeah? How can I not worry?
Why should I have to sell a house that I have put 14 years of financial (name removed by moderator)ut into for his mere 3 years of living here? A house I bought LONG before I met him? It seems so unfair.
I cannot believe I am going through this. I cannot believe it has been reduced to this. We loved each other, or more the truth, I loved him. I don’t think he ever knew how to love. I thought it would be forever. I was in no hurry to divorce but seems he is. We have been separated for over 18 mo now. It wouldn’t have mattered if it stayed that way for a few more years.
It is not in my nature to battle so heartlessly about possessions. It is all so foreign to me. How do you cope with the emotional side? I just don’t want to do this.

 

[newbetx]

I’m aware that most of you are in the US, and I am in Australia, so law wise, it will be different.
But I want to know how others with divorce/property settlement/child custody issues coped.
I mean, what we supposedly had, (the love I mean) has been reduced to solicitors and courts now.
I am not coping today. I just want this to go away.
I have been ringing lawyers half the day trying to get advice. I have never done this, I haven’t got a clue about these things.
To top it off, I just CAN’T afford a lawyer!
I have to pay a mortgage on my own and have three children at private schools! Not to mention all the other bills. I only work three days a week as I have a 2 1/2 yo son and three teenagers to look after.
I bought my house 15 years ago. I was in it for 12 years before he moved in when we married. He helped pay the mortgage for 9 months of the three years he was here. I don’t feel he is owed anything. Every major thing, even his 10 thousand dollar vasectomy reversal, was put on the loan and I am paying for it still!!!
Every single thing we did, our wedding, our holidays, the car, house renovations were put on the home loan, that I am paying.

I am so upset that I have to do this. I am upset at the stress this is causing me and the point is, I cannot pay him out. I cannot sell the house as there will be me and 4 children on the street!
This whole thing is insane. He knows how tight our money is. He knows I could not raise any money to give him. My house is old and in need of major repairs, I can’t give him anything. He contributed very little to this house and left me that many times during the three years, that he was hardly even here!
When I was on maternity leave with our son, and his income was the only money we had, he refused on a couple of occasions, to even pay for the mortgage when he had left me! I had to borrow it from a friend!

I have been told that I may have to sell the house to pay him out but not to worry… Oh yeah? How can I not worry?
Why should I have to sell a house that I have put 14 years of financial (name removed by moderator)ut into for his mere 3 years of living here? A house I bought LONG before I met him? It seems so unfair.
I cannot believe I am going through this. I cannot believe it has been reduced to this. We loved each other, or more the truth, I loved him. I don’t think he ever knew how to love. I thought it would be forever. I was in no hurry to divorce but seems he is. We have been separated for over 18 mo now. It wouldn’t have mattered if it stayed that way for a few more years.
It is not in my nature to battle so heartlessly about possessions. It is all so foreign to me. How do you cope with the emotional side? I just don’t want to do this.

I’m so sorry this is happening to you. Yes, it is very painful. I’m barely familiar with US laws so I am of no legal help to you a half a world away. I will add you to my intentions later. I don’t know if they have Retrouvialle in Austrailia, but maybe that will help ease the pain some. I pray you and he can find peace.

 

[jules11]

Thankyou for the prayers, I need them.
We only have Retrouvaille in NSW, and I had wanted to go. Funny, I got the form in the post a week after our final split. I don’t think Retrouvaille can help us. It is beyond that. I am almost certain he has a personality Disorder.
Retrouvaille deals with ‘normal’ couples.
There is no chance of reconciliation this time.

 

[aboverubies]

I am so sorry jules. :console:

Could legal aid be of any assistance? We have a women’s legal aid service nearby that offers free legal assistance to women in similar situations as yourself - do you have anything like that in your state?

I will be praying for you and your children.

ETA: How about this?
wlssa.org.au/

 

[ks60]

If you have to protect your financial interests, you must get a good, agressive attorney who has a good record for settlements. I don’t how you can pay for it; since he left, can the payment be assigned to him as part of the settlement? It sounds like he is the one left, so it could work that way.

Plus, you want to get the nasty attorney off of the market so your H can’t use him against you.

Can your family help you at all, just to get started?

I know how scary this is, and how it feels to have your family reduced to some business decisions.

 

[IrishAm]

To top it off, I just CAN’T afford a lawyer!

This is the biggest mistake people, especially women, make. Please Please Please Please – YOU CAN’T AFFORD **NOT **TO HAVE A LAWYER.

Don’t try to do this without someone protecting your legal rights, or you will lose far more in the long run. And, at the same time, stay on top of the lawyer to make sure you needs are being protected.

It is hard. Terribly hard. But eventually it will come to an end.

 

[jules11]

I am so sorry jules. :console:

Could legal aid be of any assistance? We have a women’s legal aid service nearby that offers free legal assistance to women in similar situations as yourself - do you have anything like that in your state?

I will be praying for you and your children.

ETA: How about this?
wlssa.org.au/

Thank you aboverubies, I rang the women’s legal service. They do not deal with property settlements. They only deal with child custody, so they were no help. They put me on to private lawyers that cost $200 an hour.

 

[jules11]

If you have to protect your financial interests, you must get a good, agressive attorney who has a good record for settlements. I don’t how you can pay for it; since he left, can the payment be assigned to him as part of the settlement? It sounds like he is the one left, so it could work that way.

Plus, you want to get the nasty attorney off of the market so your H can’t use him against you.

Can your family help you at all, just to get started?

I know how scary this is, and how it feels to have your family reduced to some business decisions.

It is going to be a waste of money on both our parts. I cannot pay him anything and he knows it. I want to ask him how far he is prepared to take this to get what he thinks he is owed; to us selling the house and out on the street? It will affect HIS son too!
But I do not want him to know how worried or upset I am. He thrives on causing trouble for me. I dont want to give him that satisfaction.
I see his point that he is walking away with nothing. But he came into this with nothing.
I bought the house many years ago.
So what is the point?
I can’t pay him out . I cannot borrow any more money. I will not get another loan and I do NOT want to sell the house.
This is a nightmare.

 

[jules11]

This is the biggest mistake people, especially women, make. Please Please Please Please – YOU CAN’T AFFORD **NOT **TO HAVE A LAWYER.

Don’t try to do this without someone protecting your legal rights, or you will lose far more in the long run. And, at the same time, stay on top of the lawyer to make sure you needs are being protected.

It is hard. Terribly hard. But eventually it will come to an end.

I know I need to have one. I have an appointment on Monday. But it is just so unbelievable. I have never dealt with this kind of thing before. It makes it all seem so, so ruthless full of hate.
I just don’t have it in me to do this!

 

[dulcissima]

Jules, you are right do not give him any indication that you would be devastated to lose the house. Do not think that it affecting his son would sway him in any way. Unfortunately some people are not able to put their kids needs in front of their needs to exact a payback for the feelings of shame that they have over the failure of the relationship. I would be as detatched and impersonal as possible, not giving him the hint that the house has any meaning to you, just that selling it is not going to produce any money for him. Perhaps you can agree to take on all of the loans against the house to offset any “gain” he might think he is due.

I would be careful too in choosing a lawyer. Maybe let your lawyer know too that you just want the basics done. I think it will be important up front that both you and your lawyer remain firm with your husband. People with control issues can really run up legal bills by constantly trying to refuse any progress being made by at first making ridiculous demands, failing to see that they obviously won’t get they are asking for, and then to want to negotiate endlessly…and all the while the clock is ticking on what the lawyer is charging. Pick a lawyer who can say no to your husband’s demand and not put in the time to argue round and round with him.

My advice is based on seeing the mistakes I made with my ex who I believe has a similar personality disorder as your husband and by watching my cousin who is married to a similar sort of man go through her divorce…with no end in sight to actually completing the divorce and having to pay outrageous sums to lawyers who spent too long negotiating with someone who was not living in reality.

 

[jules11]

=dulcissima;3545118

Jules, you are right do not give him any indication that you would be devastated to lose the house. Do not think that it affecting his son would sway him in any way. Unfortunately some people are not able to put their kids needs in front of their needs to exact a payback for the feelings of shame that they have over the failure of the relationship.

I think that his love for his son is my only hope that he will do the right thing.
I am sure that he would not want to see him affected in any way. But who knows? I just don’t know what he is capable of

I would be as detatched and impersonal as possible, not giving him the hint that the house has any meaning to you, just that selling it is not going to produce any money for him. Perhaps you can agree to take on all of the loans against the house to offset any “gain” he might think he is due.

I already am paying the loan for the house. He paid the mortgage for about 9 months in our marriage.

I would be careful too in choosing a lawyer. Maybe let your lawyer know too that you just want the basics done. I think it will be important up front that both you and your lawyer remain firm with your husband. People with control issues can really run up legal bills by constantly trying to refuse any progress being made by at first making ridiculous demands, failing to see that they obviously won’t get they are asking for, and then to want to negotiate endlessly…and all the while the clock is ticking on what the lawyer is charging. Pick a lawyer who can say no to your husband’s demand and not put in the time to argue round and round with him.

My advice is based on seeing the mistakes I made with my ex who I believe has a similar personality disorder as your husband and by watching my cousin who is married to a similar sort of man go through her divorce…with no end in sight to actually completing the divorce and having to pay outrageous sums to lawyers who spent too long negotiating with someone who was not living in reality.

Thanks for that Dulcissima,

This lawyer I am to see on Monday is a family court lawyer. We spoke on the phone yesterday for about 15 mins. He asked me if he had a mental illness and I said I am sure he has a personality disorder. He asked me which one, so he seems like he has dealt with these issues before.
This just seems so clinical or calculating to me. I just can’t get my head around it all.
But I was told if I don’t do something, he will automatically get what he wants. But he will tell his lawyer a bunch of lies, so what then?

I have to spend the weekend getting together documents and receipts for everything the money we borrowed was spent on. Apparently staying home with a child is a ‘non finacial contribution’ to the marriage and accounts for about 60% of total financial accumulation or profit. (if that makes sense.)
So really, he is wasting his time. He will get next to nothing and he has to pay lawyers fees on top of it all.

 

[Nanny_PK]

This is the biggest mistake people, especially women, make. Please Please Please Please – YOU CAN’T AFFORD **NOT **TO HAVE A LAWYER.

Don’t try to do this without someone protecting your legal rights, or you will lose far more in the long run. And, at the same time, stay on top of the lawyer to make sure you needs are being protected.

It is hard. Terribly hard. But eventually it will come to an end.

I strongly second IrishAm’s statement. Also, at least in the States, it will usually end up costing you much more in the end if you try to do it yourself than if you’d bit the bullet and found an attorney to help you.

I know in Texas the state bar has a pro bono (for free) service that they will sometimes offer. You could look into whatever lawyer organization there is in Australia to see if they have any program like that.

 

[aboverubies]

Thank you aboverubies, I rang the women’s legal service. They do not deal with property settlements. They only deal with child custody, so they were no help. They put me on to private lawyers that cost $200 an hour.

Oh dear! You do have prayer on your side! Who’s a good saint to pray a novena to? St Philomena? St Jude? If you would like to pray one I would like to pray it with you. Just let me know.

 

[Liberanosamalo]

Been there, done that. I know in US law we had to list all property and when we got it and who paid for it, and what you brought into the marriage is what you take out, plus a division of community property. If you did not put his name on the house title, then he will have a hard time justifying his right to anything but the 9 months he paid into it. (Or half that.)

Since he lived there so seldom, he has a lot of explaining to do about his right to take anything of property value.

Do NOT count on him doing the right thing by his son. He hasn’t yet. He won’t during a divorce.

And that kind of man drags things out. But remember… he will be paying $200 an hour for a lawyer also. So he may do the prudent thing and not drag it out.

If you have any medical records or prescriptions dealing with his problems, KEEP them!

And you better rein in your daughter. He may be intent on calling her as a witness to use against you. I don’t know how that situation is now, but be prepared for some real nastiness. It’s time for your daughter to get off the fence.

Most judges are loathe to kick a woman with children out on the streets, especially if she’s been trying to support herself and the kids all along.

Something tells me his sudden desire to divorce has to do with another woman. That is what made mine hurry things up after 3.5 years of dragging it out. Good luck. And remember… someday you’ll look back and realize no amount of money is too much to get rid of someone who has treated you like this man has.

 

[cecilia97]

Jules,

I’ll be praying for you. My divorce was two years ago. Get some family or friends in there to support you. You need to call in the reserves at this point.

You WILL survive.

It’s OK to fight for the financial things that are yours. A neighbor I didn’t even like much at the time gave me a piece of advice that stuck with me and helped me throughout my divorce. I had told her that I didn’t like the angry person I was becoming and that I wasn’t a person who cared about material things but that was all I had left to get out of the shambles that had been my marriage. She was, I think, very wise. The anger is there to PROTECT you during the worst of it. It’s OK to be angry. You have a right to be angry.

Just remember, later, when it’s over, to work on letting GO of the anger. You can’t let it consume you.

As for fairness…I know this is cliche, but you’re right…it’s NOT fair. You may have to sell that house and buy or rent something cheaper. That’s not fair. You may have to take the kids out of private schools. That’s not fair either. But to go further into debt for a house or school you can’t afford…that just cheats you and your kids even more. There’s a Christian financial guru here in the States that says “if your house is too much for you, it becomes a curse instead of the blessing you wanted it to be”.

#1 priority during this time…your kids and yourself. And yes, hat does mean getting the financial support of their father for the kids. But it might not mean keeping all the stuff. Stuff can become a millstone.

Divorce does have a brutal way of teaching you what’s REALLY important and what you can just let go of because you don’t have the energy to hold onto it anymore. Save your emotional energy for the really important things.

You may find yourself getting sick or ru down. Your body is using a lot of energy on keeping your emotions and psyche intact right now. The physical stuff sort of take second chair. Consider getting counseling for yourself so you can care for the kids and have the strength to do the things you’ll have to do.

You can’t afford NOT to have a lawyer, IMO. It doesn’t have to be super expensive, either…but do get a good lawyer. I don’t have kids, but I was able to pay for my divorce with $3500 US dollars, and my lawyer got me all the “things” I wanted most. That’s a pretty good deal. It’s when people lose their rationality and let hurt feelings take over that the legal process gets expensive. Divorce lawyers make a bundle when two people just go at each other the “get back” for all the hurts. Don’t go there, and you will save yourself a lot of cash.

Most importantly, lean on GOD. He will not let this destroy you. I PROMISE YOU…you will get through this and you and your kids will be OK.

Prayers and hugs,

 

[dulcissima]

I don’t have kids, but I was able to pay for my divorce with $3500 US dollars, and my lawyer got me all the “things” I wanted most.

That was a good deal. My cousin I mentioned before, who lives in Texas, has been trying to do a conciliatory divorce with a husband who is a narcissist. So far her legal bill is at $30k because he won’t agree to even the most basic things.

 

[jules11]

Oh dear! You do have prayer on your side! Who’s a good saint to pray a novena to? St Philomena? St Jude? If you would like to pray one I would like to pray it with you. Just let me know.

Oh Thank you! My head is spinning! I have gone from feeling happy and at peace to twisted up inside worrying about losing my house!
St. Jude is one of my favourite saints. Always find myself in hopeless situations!

(It’s 2.30am over here. Must be something close over there. I thought I was the only crazy one posting at this time!)

 

[cecilia97]

That was a good deal. My cousin I mentioned before, who lives in Texas, has been trying to do a conciliatory divorce with a husband who is a narcissist. So far her legal bill is at $30k because he won’t agree to even the most basic things.

Well…I was in Illinois at the time. We had no kids but we did own cars and a home together. Here in Harris County, there are some requirements for mediations which actually make divorce much more expensive, because the courts are so full. I’m glad I didn’t have to do my divorce in Harris County!

My lawyer was $250/hour and he was supposedly one of the best in town. He was tough and straighforward but NOT an agressive bulldog. I think the super-agressive lawyers make things harder than they have to be, sometimes. I’m sure my ex paid his lawyer about the same amount. I just tried to do all the records, tallying of money, etc, at home and gave my lawyer excellent records to work from so it saved him time. (I have a good financial brain, that was a blessing) My ex tried some threats and stuff, but I just tried to let most of it roll off and not respond to him, so we wouldn’t get in any big fights and make things more expensive.

That’s why I think it was helpful to have family with me at the time. I was a mess. When my husband would make a legal threat, I would get all upset but my family was there to listen to me and support me. They’d help me see the logic in the situation and help diffuse the emotional parts. That way I didn’t call my ex and go off or something, and make it worse. And I certainly didn’t call my lawyer and start freaking out. I freaked out at home and tried to let the lawyers do their job.

I’m friends with a divorce attorney in Texas now. She says divorces do NOT have to be long or expensive, if people would leave the emotional sniping out of it. The lawyer is not a psychologist. That’s what a counselor is for.

My ex was a bit of a narcissist, too. Ignoring them seems to help. Ugh. I’ll pray for your cousin.

 

[Island_Oak]

=dulcissima;3545118

I think that his love for his son is my only hope that he will do the right thing.
I am sure that he would not want to see him affected in any way. But who knows? I just don’t know what he is capable of

…This just seems so clinical or calculating to me. I just can’t get my head around it all.
But I was told if I don’t do something, he will automatically get what he wants. But he will tell his lawyer a bunch of lies, so what then?

I have to spend the weekend getting together documents and receipts for everything the money we borrowed was spent on. Apparently staying home with a child is a ‘non finacial contribution’ to the marriage and accounts for about 60% of total financial accumulation or profit. (if that makes sense.)
So really, he is wasting his time. He will get next to nothing and he has to pay lawyers fees on top of it all.

I apologize in advance if what I say sounds harsh…but you need to put on some emotional armour and get into battle mode, sister. This man has shown you repeatedly just how capable he is of disappointing you and AND HIS SON. Love is not what motivates him or you would never be in this position.

You know you are the only responsible adult in the lives of these children. You simply MUST work diligently with this attorney and make sure this lout doesn’t drive you from your home or leave you holding the bag for your mutual bills. In addition, HE should be ordered to pay YOU some child support for the baby as he is not housing or caring for the child.

You’ll have all the time in the world to tend to your emotions after the legalities are settled. But the marriage is over and you are on your own with FOUR kids. Get in there, gather and organize your records, cooperate actively with your attorney, start to THINK and strategize for the benefit of the kids–not like some woozy-headed teenager disappointed about a broken relationship. You are the only one who will be looking out for your and the kids interests–make sure he doesn’t make this any harder than it’s already is going to be. You can do this! He’s left you no choice, you have to do this.

 

[jules11]

=Liberanosamalo;3545302]Been there, done that. I know in US law we had to list all property and when we got it and who paid for it, and what you brought into the marriage is what you take out, plus a division of community property. If you did not put his name on the house title, then he will have a hard time justifying his right to anything but the 9 months he paid into it. (Or half that.)

That’s a relief, if its the same here. He has very little claim then. Can I claim compensation for all the emotional abuse he put me through? (only half serious)

Since he lived there so seldom, he has a lot of explaining to do about his right to take anything of property value.

Yes, he left me on a constant basis, til one day I said, ‘no more’ and changed the locks.

Do NOT count on him doing the right thing by his son. He hasn’t yet. He won’t during a divorce.

I know he loves his son. His other son, was almost like a god to him. He idolised him. It was sickening actually. Treat his wife like garbage, but his son like a prince. He was all he cared about, he is similar with our son. It is because he can control them, I think. He has always been a pretty good father though, just a terrible husband.

And that kind of man drags things out. But remember… he will be paying $200 an hour for a lawyer also. So he may do the prudent thing and not drag it out.

If you have any medical records or prescriptions dealing with his problems, KEEP them!

No medical records.Nothing. He would not see a doctor for himself. No. I am the one with the problem…not.

And you better rein in your daughter. He may be intent on calling her as a witness to use against you. I don’t know how that situation is now, but be prepared for some real nastiness. It’s time for your daughter to get off the fence.

She is aware of the situation. She is on side with me. very upset. Sad, they have to see this but they are at an age where it is impossible to hide it from them now. She knows what he is like, she is aware that it is HIM with the problems.

Most judges are loathe to kick a woman with children out on the streets, especially if she’s been trying to support herself and the kids all along.

I hope so!

Something tells me his sudden desire to divorce has to do with another woman. That is what made mine hurry things up after 3.5 years of dragging it out. Good luck. And remember… someday you’ll look back and realize no amount of money is too much to get rid of someone who has treated you like this man has

Well, I certainly can feel that I have given it my all. I know there is nothing I can do to salvage this. I have a clear conscience although he tells me over and over that I am completely to blame and that it is all my fault.
About another woman, I doubt it. He is such a loner. He has constantly accused me of having someone else and still does now. But if he has, more fool her!
I feel sorry for any other woman that has the misfortune to ever be close to him.