Divorce due to Alcoholic Husband

[Allegra]

But you quoted MY post, which WAS about culpability for wrong behavior.

 

[Allegra]

But really, what advice can be given other than canon law or resources? No one here knows her, her husband, or the details of her situation. We really aren’t in the position to tell her to stay or go. There’s no indication that she or her family is in immediate danger, nor what her husband intends to do about his failure to stay sober. All we can really do is give her objective information that she can use to make her own decision.

 

[Allegra]

I also said I don’t spend time around them when they are drinking or using, so that is not my “role”. Instead of trying to blindly assign “roles” to people you admit that you don’t know (which is blaming, whether you want to own that or not.) maybe it would be a better use of your time to actually give people permission to authentically reclaim their owns lives rather than adopt a false responsibility for someone else’s.

There are things that a family member can do to avoid sabotaging someone’s recovery, IF that person is even in recovery, but there is no “right way” to handle someone else’s addiction that will absolutely result in them becoming and staying sober. Family members don’t “make them drink”. That is a lie. Family members also can’t make them stop or “love them out” of addiction either. That is also a lie. THey can’t “take back their power” because they never really had any power over the other person in the first place.

The only “power” a family member has is to not contribute to the problem (And there really truly are situations where a person is addicted to something without their family being contributing factors. The idea that if a person’s family didn’t have “roles” they wouldn’t be addicted is complete bunk.), pray diligently for that person’s recovery (Because God is the one who actually does have power over the situation.), love that person in spite of their condition and continue to support the good things in their lives where appropriate, be prepared to protect themselves physically and emotionally when needed, and give themselves permission to live as happily and healthily as their addicted loved one would want them to live if they weren’t sick.

 

[Allegra]

God’s love knows no bounds. Charity can go beyond what we are culpable for, but not what we are capable of.

 

[Horton]

You didn’t even read my whole post.

Just based on your two posts I used in this one, your role is one of “not in my house but I can deal with it in other places”. Based on the information mentioned here, this is your role. No blame, no cause, just a role.

Now I know I don’t know your particular situation, nor do I want to know. I don’t want to know who the addicts in your family are nor do I want to know the particular dynamics. All I want is for you to understand how this works.

Just hope you read it this time.

And I will repeat, just because you don’t agree with something does not make it wrong or invalid. Now I’m done with this convo with you. You can have the last word, Just know I will not waste my time responding.

 

[Allegra]

I read it the first time. The fact that you admit that you know anything about my actual “role” in one paragraph doesn’t magically erase the fact that you attempted to assign me one in the previous paragraph. You are wasting your time assigning “roles”, which is only a disingenuous form of assigning blame and responsibility to people who don’t necessarily have any. Your point about disagreeing with something not making it wrong is sort of a non-point. That door swings both ways. Just because you believe something is true, doesn’t mean that it is. All I know is that I have a family with the full range of sober, recovering, active, and perpetually-in-crisis addicts and I still intend on having a merry Christmas, as I do every year, without attending a meeting of people telling me what my “role” is. I have accepted the fact that I do not have a “role” in other people’s diseases nor do I have the power to control them.

 

[guanophore]

No children are ever “playing a part” in their parent’s addiction. Ever. Period.

I wish this were true. Unfortuately, children are among the primary and most wounded victims of their parents addiction. The develop coping skills that may be ultimately very damaging to thenselves. Some of these coping skills perpetuate the addictive cycle.

Is it the childrens’ “fault” that their parents are addicts? of course not. Are they caught up into the web and play a part? sadly, yes.\

Some adult children may enable their parents

Very young children can enable addiction. They don’t even realize what they are doing.

making blanket statements that it is the whole family’s disorder because a person won’t keep sober is both wrong and incredibly hurtful.

I agree it is wrong that the whole family should be damaged by this illness. I agree it is incredibly hurtful to all who are touched by it. But the fact of the matter is that addiction is a family illness because it makes everyone sick who is subjected to the ravages of it.

There are great many addicts who have managed to get themselves into addiction all on their own.

Most addicts had help getting there. But this is not about blame, and where the fault is to be found.

it is not their fault that they made their choices

No, it is not, and finding fault is ultimately unproductive.

nor are they capable of forcing them to stop making those choices

There are many things that family members can do so that they don’t need to feel powerless and victimized. Some of those steps can even facilitate getting treatment for the loved one.

It’s making cruel blanket statements such as “it’s a family disorder” and “everyone played a role in it” that is against Christian charity.

Christian Charity is always rooted in the Truth, and the Truth is that addiction is a family illness, and everyone has a role in it.

this misplaced culpability for someone else’s actions

I think you have misunderstood the point. It is not about blame, it is about what needs to happen so people can heal. If people do not realize they are wounded by the addiction, they are less likely to be able to heal.

 

[Msmagoo]

He actually answered me right away. Offered his rosary for my family and will meet with me on Friday. I am blessed to belong to a small parish.

 

[Msmagoo]

I, too, don’t believe that I am to blame for his drinking. There is nothing I can do to stop him from taking that first drink if he so chooses. That has been made very clear to me. My biggest problem is seeing the faces on my adult children when he drinks again and seeing them begin to lose the good relationship they had when he was sober. Also, none of us want to be there to watch him slowly or quickly kill himself. He has been warned that “that next drink will kill him”!

 

[guanophore]

Trying to say that you aren’t blaming someone while at the same time claiming that they caused it and have a responsibility to change it is a distinction without a difference.

I agree with what you are saying, even though you are misrepresenting my position.

Family members do things that contribute to the problem. Al-Anon helps family members recognize what these behaviors are and change them.

We are all responsible to change ourselves, so that we can more conform to the image of Christ. In focusing on changing ourselves, we take the focus off the addict, which stimulates healing.

I’ve heard many things through the years that are attributed to al-anon…that are complete and utter bunk.

Well, we will know not to turn to you as a proponent, in that case!

It’s a misplaced authority! A couple should not have to get “permission” to separate or divorce.

Marriage is a sacrament. The Church is responsible for the dispensation of sacraments. It is great that the OP is asking the question of what is the “Catholic” response. This demonstrates a heart that desires to be obedient to what God has ordained for marriage, even in the toughest of times.

Remember, this is coming from someone who was divorced against his will. I don’t feel that my ex-wife should have had to seek permission to separate or divorce me.

The whole point of pastoral oversight is to prevent abuses from occurring. I think if seeking permission gives the aggrieved spouse some participation, it is a good thing.

I don’t think anyone on this thread addressed you personally, blaming you for anything.

This is true, but a person who has unresolved issues is more likely to take such things very personally, whether they are directed to them, or no.

maybe it would be a better use of your time to actually give people permission to authentically reclaim their owns lives rather than adopt a false responsibility for someone else’s.

Yes, it is much better, and this is the whole focus of Al-Anon.

There are things that a family member can do to avoid sabotaging someone’s recovery,

This is an important part of success, but not all family members are educated on these matters.

Family members … can’t “take back their power” because they never really had any power over the other person in the first place.

Not only over other people, but over the addiction as well. But the term “take back their power” means stop giving your power to people and addiitions over which you have no control, and letting them control you.

 

[guanophore]

The only “power” a family member has is to not contribute to the problem (And there really truly are situations where a person is addicted to something without their family being contributing factors.

Yes, and this is an essential element that family members ravaged by addiction must be able to understand and learn skills to prevent inadvtertantly contributing.

The idea that if a person’s family didn’t have “roles” they wouldn’t be addicted is complete bunk.

I agree, but this is not what is being presented. The roles that family members take can unwittingly be a perpetuating factor. That is why learning what roles these are and changing them can foster earlier recovery for the addict.

and give themselves permission to live as happily and healthily as their addicted loved one would want them to live if they weren’t sick.

This is one of the core values of Al-Anon and very essential. One cannot continue in unconditional love is one is angry, hurt, and exhausted, which is what addiction does to people.

 

[Msmagoo]

Yes. I’m trying to decide when enough is enough. He is not an abusive drunk which is a blessing. He is, however, my support system snd someone I still love very much. I can’t watch him kill himself and hurt our family anymore. Also, after 30 years of working I am currently disabled. 3 major back surgeries has made it very difficult to function normally throughout the day, let alone go back to work.

 

[guanophore]

“roles”, which is only a disingenuous form of assigning blame and responsibility to people who don’t necessarily have any.

I think there are some fundamental differences between responsibility and “blame”. Blame is a work of the devil and is not life giving. However, taking responsibility for oneself is the path to freedom. One cannot adequately take responsibility for oneself when it is unclear how one has contributed to the outcome, whether wittingly, or unwittingly.

without attending a meeting of people telling me what my “role” is.

For the sake of all those who might be reading this thread who are not hostile toward Al-Anon, this is NOT what happens in the meetings.

 

[Allegra]

I understand that it can be very stressful to have a family member that isn’t taking care of their health. I have a brother that is currently failing to manage his very serious health condition. He’s in his early 30s and literally in danger of sudden death from a blood clot or a very quick death from infection because mental instability keeps him from doing what he needs to do to take care of himself. Unless he is literally unconscious, medical professionals won’t force him to accept care no matter how bad he gets. Unless, he is suicidal or licking the walls crazy, the mental health professionals aren’t apt to recommend treatment against his will and even if they do, it’s going to have to approved legally. I don’t think there’s anything I can say that will make you feel better about your children’s disappointment in their father. Maybe you can keep reminding them that just because a person fails in a fight against addiction, or mental illness, or whatever, it doesn’t mean that they don’t love you. Hopefully your husband plans to keep on fighting.

 

[Allegra]

Being hurt by and playing a role in are two separate things. Using that sort of definition, you could also argue that a child who is being sexually assaulted is “playing a role” in someone’s pedophilia. I don’t think anyone would dare to tell a child that though. A child is under the control of their parents. If they are being used by an addict or an abuser, they are not “enabling” anything. They are being used. I can agree with the statement that addiction is a “family illness” with the explanation that the entire family is effected by it, but really, isn’t that the same as any severe illness, if you think about it? Cancer. Diabetes. Depression. Cerebral Palsy. Inevitably, if a member of the family suffers from a serious disease or disorder, it can cause stress or even trauma in the family. I disagree that if a person is addicted, that means that the family members automatically “play a role” in that addiction. Many addicts may have had help getting there, but that doesn’t mean that every member of their family “played a role”, or even that any member of their family “played a role”. I know a family well that had a daughter that had almost no experience with drinking, drugs, and had never even smoked, all the way through three years of college. She went from there to being addicted to heroine within the course of a single summer. Her siblings realized something was off and the family literally did everything within their power to “get her help”. (It turns out “help” is fairly reluctant to act against a grown person’s free will, particularly with the consistency required to break an addiction.) She was dead in less than a year. Now, I realize that the nature of heroine is much more fast-acting than alcohol, but the point is that there are almost limitless “friends” and “acquaintances” out there that are more than happy to help someone find unhealthy ways to manage their stress. I don’t think I have misunderstood the point. A family member’s healing can’t be dependent on an addict’s recovery process. They really have no control over that, no matter how perfectly they play their “role”. It’s a subject of debate how much control the addict themself has! It may be that if a family member doesn’t realize that they are wounded, it’s because they have actually come to accept that the situation isn’t their fault and while it is sad, it isn’t within their hands to control.

Based on what I’ve seen, there’s a wide array of what sort of things actually are said at al-anon meetings. I agree that’s probably not what is SUPPOSED to be said at al-anon meetings, but there is a lot that seems to be left up to personal interpretation of the curriculum. Some of the stuff that seems to come out of al-anon seems even more out there than what’s going on down the hall at AA, and they’re supposed to be the drunks! For the record, however, I’m not overall “hostile” toward Al-anon, but I’ve heard some very destructive mindsets, particularly on the subject of codependency, that are attributed (although quite possibly misinterpreted) to the al-anon curriculum. Nothing short of Scripture is above scrutiny, and even that is frequently misinterpreted by people.

 

[Allegra]

Do you think that separating from him would prevent you from having to watch him fail? I mean, rationally speaking, divorcing someone doesn’t usually just make them disappear entirely. I’m not trying to be distressing here, but unless you move to Honolulu and change your name or something, if the view of his crash and burn going to be that much different from afar? Or are you hoping that a separation might light a fire under his butt, so to speak? That could be the case in your situation, but I only point out that divorce often doesn’t turn out to be the escape hatch people think it’s going to be. And if you do run off to Honolulu, you won’t be able to be there for your kids.

 

[guanophore]

Being hurt by and playing a role in are two separate things.

I agree. People can be hurt by addiction who are not caught up in a destructive daily pattern. However, survival in a family where there are years of addiction contributes to the development of certain coping skills. These patterns of survival that help family members survive the addiction can become counterproductive later in life or when the person moves out of the family of origin to begin a family of their own. FAmilies are systems, and in every system the parts contribute to make the system function.

If they are being used by an addict or an abuser, they are not “enabling” anything.

Individuals attempting to survive in a dysfunctional system often develop survival skills that can be ulitmately counterprductive…

I can agree with the statement that addiction is a “family illness” with the explanation that the entire family is effected by it, but really, isn’t that the same as any severe illness, if you think about it? Cancer. Diabetes. Depression. Cerebral Palsy. Inevitably, if a member of the family suffers from a serious disease or disorder, it can cause stress or even trauma in the family.

Absolutely. There are some differences with addiction and other mental health disabilities because of societal stigma (they are more hidden and not discussed or help sought) and are insidious in that many of the effects are invisibile.

A family member’s healing can’t be dependent on an addict’s recovery process.

Or lack of it, which is the whole focus of Al-Anon. Family members can get healthy again whether the addict changes, or not. The focus is moved from trying to change the addict to changing oneself.

I disagree that if a person is addicted, that means that the family members automatically “play a role” in that addiction.

People around the addict respond to the behaviors. There is a wide variety of responses, many of which you have described on this thread. Perhaps you object to the term “role” to describe the set of responses a person take in response to the addict.

 

[Allegra]

I object to the term “role” in the context of saying that a family member has a “role in the addict’s addiction”. Obviously, everyone who knows someone has some sort of role in their life in general. But not everyone who knows an addict has had a role in them becoming addicted or has the power or ability to even have a role in their recovery, assuming a recovery is even underway.

 

[guanophore]

I object to the term “role” in the context of saying that a family member has a “role in the addict’s addiction”.

From reading your posts I think perhaps we are in agreement. I am not saying that the family member has a role in creating the addiction, or can be blamed for making the person drink, for example. What I am saying is that once the addictive cycle is in place, the family members fall into a pattern around the illness to cope with it. Many of these patterns are maladaptive.

The three C’s from Alateen

• We didn’t cause it – it is not our fault that the other person drinks, it is their private battle
• We can’t control it – we have no power over the other person’s desire to drink
• We can’t cure it – it is an illness that cannot be cured through any known medical remedies

Letting go of these concepts disengages the family members from maladaptive “roles” with the addict and enables them to focus on themselves.

 

[Horton]

No one has said you are to blame for your husband’s drinking. The whole “blame” concept came from another poster who misinterpreted some of the comments made.

What has been said is there is a family dynamic that goes on when a family member is an alcoholic (or drug addict). If this dynamic never changes, nothing ever changes. You can’t make your husband stop drinking nor do you make him drink, although I’m sure he would like to believe that. What we’ve been saying is you change your response to his behavior, and things start to change. Will he suddenly get sober? Most likely not, but YOU will have started to take back some control over your life.

This in no way makes you responsible for his behavior, it makes you responsible for yours. I have worked in the field of addiction for 20 years and have seen family after family go through this. I’ve been to al-anon meetings with people, I’ve counseled people, and I’ve seen change happen.