Divorce or Annulment?

[1ke]

so, separation or annulment?

No one here can tell you that. You need to talk to your priest, as soon as one is available to you, because you may not have any grounds for a decree of nullity. Then again, you might.

I can recommend the book Annulment: The Wedding That Was by Michael Smith Foster for a better understanding of nullity.

Yes, separation while the bond remains (through either legal separation or civil divorce) is a solution, but I would hope that you and your husband could work out your issues without it.

None of us here is qualified to speak about his mental health or yours or to tell you what you should or should not put up with.

I can also recommend prayers to St Rita and St Monica.

 

[johndoe100]

Except that the information given on this thread directly contradicts information from other threads. They are completely contradictory.

See here where the OP states his current wife is a lifelong practicing Catholic:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9450353&postcount=35

See here where he states he had the “perfect Catholic family” with his first wife, not a “less than perfect Catholic marriage” as he characterizes it here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=9451788&postcount=52

So, actually, it is difficult to know what to believe.

Hello 1Ke,

It looks lime you will be following me around. Well, when I refered to my first Catholic marriage as “Perfect” that was in Church legalistic terms. Then, when I refered to my second Cathloic marriage ( we were blessed in the Catholic Church) I was referring to Protestant terms. We are oneness with Christ as Him being central to our marriage, that is not how it was in my legalistic first Catholic marriage.

Both marriage are/were the Sacrament, and I have never been divorced, separated, annulled, or shacked-up either.

 

[johndoe100]

Friend, I’m afraid your issues are as serious as the OP’s. :sad_yes:

How can you as a divorced person say that? When both of my marriage are/were the Sacrament of the Catholic Church, and I have never been divorced, separated, annulled, or shacked-up either.

 

[SonCatcher]

How can you as a divorced person say that? When both of my marriage are/were the Sacrament of the Catholic Church, and I have never been divorced, separated, annulled, or shacked-up either.

I have never divorced. My first and only serious girlfriend is my wife of 8 blissful years today.

 

[johndoe100]

Hello kohotali,

My wife and I have been praying for you guys. Try to remember that life has many bumps in the road, and your hudbsnd’s employment is probably your first test. There will be many more like financing your son’s College, his first car, his car insurance, etc,

If you want to make your marriage Christ Centered, then place Christ in your life and read Matthew 19.

When Jesus had finished saying these things, he left Galilee and went into the region of Judea to the other side of the Jordan. Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there.

Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason?”

“Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,’ and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh’? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate.”

“Why then,” they asked, “did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away?”

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Matthew 19:1-9, 21 NIV84)

 

[maltmom]

My husband absolutely refuses to work. In the three years we’ve been married he’s had 7 jobs, left or got fired. Also, he has absolutely no interest in intimacy and has told me yesterday that he does not ever plan to have intimacy ever again with me, in all seriousness. We live overseas, and we were thinking of moving back to the US, but i see that there’s no marriage, so I want to leave him. My husband said that he absolutely will not look for work until he gets his green card (which can take between 6 months to a year). So the entire financial burden has been on me since we have gotten married.

Thoughts?

I will be praying for you.

 

[kohotali]

I can also recommend prayers to St Rita and St Monica.

Yes - good advice - I’ve started to pray to them. Thanks!

 

[kohotali]

Hello kohotali,

My wife and I have been praying for you guys. Try to remember that life has many bumps in the road, and your hudbsnd’s employment is probably your first test. There will be many more like financing your son’s College, his first car, his car insurance, etc,

johndoe, thanks VERY much for your prayers. I sincerely appreciate it! I can use many prayers now.

Yes, you’re right - there are many bumps in the road. Don’t like the MANY heavy crosses that I’ve gotten since we first got married. There have been too many it seems (not only the unemployment).

You’re talking about other things in the future about finances. Yes, I’ve already started to finance everything (not a single DIME from my husband). I’ve started a UNIQUE plan at Fidelity for my son’s college and opened up a bank account for him and have been depositing as much as I can and as often as I can, etc. I’m talking about thousands of dollars. But, the problem is the inability for my husband to be an active participant in the family he started. He’s truly (as I found out) an INCREDIBLY immature human being in many, many aspects of his life. I’m talking about my husband seeing me as a mother figure rather than a wife. This is the very problem I’m encountering. He cannot handle life in the clinical, psychological sense.

I have been seeing some changes in him (I believe through prayers) that has calmed him down (he would have the nastiest alcoholic temper tantrums and severe, rigid inflexibility to adapt to life’s changes, like a grown baby). Tears and prayers I believe have helped a bit. But that’s how he lost his latest job - he couldn’t handle change and wouldn’t do what his boss asked him to do (which was a reasonable request), which he didn’t want to do. [sigh].

more prayers requested.

thanks

 

[johndoe100]

Hello kohotali,

What you are still doing is performance rating your husband, which results in you isolating yourself from him. That is not your husbands fault, so you do not have grounds for a divorse, separate, or anul your marriage. (Matthew 19:9) Submission is the divine calling of a wife to honor her hudbsnd’s leadership.

“Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the a Church.”(Ephesians 5:22-23)

Submission is a complementary, not competitive, way if relating to your husband. Make Jesus the center of your marriage by both of you keeping your eyes on Jesus. Resist the temptation of being critical of your husband.

 

[joanofarc2008]

OP- is your dh also willing to make Christ the center of your marriage or is this just something that you believe in?

 

[kohotali]

at this time, i don’t see him putting Christ in the middle of our marriage.

as to johndoe’s comments that i’m performance rating my husband - is a bit offensive. my husband has a serious problem keeping a job. 7 jobs within three years? that raises red flags. his most recent job paid $350 a MONTH and he got fired from that one! come on!!! we have ZERO income. how are we going to EAT??? i’ve been DRAINING my savings since i got married and there’s little left…!

how can i trust a man who won’t own up to his responsibilities towards his family?

 

[The_Bucket]

Do not be discouraged by the odd lunatic and certainly do not let someone’s post on the Internet disquiet you more than you are already. Your husband clearly needs help but you need to let go of resentment towards him. Not because he deserves that but because it’s best for your mental and spiritual health.

You are most certainly right that he’s not a man whom you can follow, at least not right now, but you do need to not dwell on his imperfections though they be many and hurt your family. It does you no good. You need to do what you can to keep the family afloat and yourself sane. Do not enable his poor behavior but do not let it destroy you either. Do whatever you can to facilitate change in his behavior but ultimately only God can do it and your husband has to let the Lord do His work.

 

[johndoe100]

at this time, i don’t see him putting Christ in the middle of our marriage.

as to johndoe’s comments that i’m performance rating my husband - is a bit offensive. my husband has a serious problem keeping a job. 7 jobs within three years? that raises red flags. his most recent job paid $350 a MONTH and he got fired from that one! come on!!! we have ZERO income. how are we going to EAT??? i’ve been DRAINING my savings since i got married and there’s little left…!

how can i trust a man who won’t own up to his responsibilities towards his family?

Hello kohotali,

You married that guy through the Sacrament of Marriage in the Catholic Church. Now that you hit a big bump in the road you want your marriage to be a secular 50/50 marriage. Well, it’s not, so seeking advice from secular want-a-bee’s is only going to get you excommunicated. You and your husband have to work it out between your marriage and God. I supplied the Bible Verses required if you want to place God first in your marriage.

Don’t think for a minute that other Catholic marriages have an easy path and your marriage is more difficult than the rest of us.

 

[The_Bucket]

Hello kohotali,

You married that guy through the Sacrament of Marriage in the Catholic Church. Now that you hit a big bump in the road you want your marriage to be a secular marriage. Well, it’s not, so seeking advice from secular want-a-bee’s is only going to get you excommunicated. You and your husband have to work it out between your marriage and God. I supplied the Bible Verses required if you want to place God first in your marriage.

Don’t think for a minute that other Catholic marriages have an easy path and your marriage is more difficult than the rest of us.

Dude seriously, you should leave this thread as your comments are borderline harassment both to the OP and fellow posters.

There are major problems in plenty of marriages, but a man who has demonstrated a serial inability to hold down a job very likely has an underlying disorder. I daresay there’s a fair chance, if he is truly that immature, that lacked the capacity to enter into a valid marriage. But that would be for a tribunal to decide.

In the interim the OP has received strong advice from a multitude of other posters and I hope found some solace in my own posts which have advised to protect herself and her children as much as possible, don’t enable his behavior and let go of any resentment.

I don’t think she’s saying her husband is going to hell because he won’t work. She’s saying that a marriage can’t work if one party refuses to do anything. And that’s true because that’s not a marriage. There are times where one party drags his or her feet or even actively sabotages the bond but that can’t go on forever and be considered a real marriage. It’s emotionally and spiritually draining and terrible for all parties involved.

 

[johndoe100]

Hello Bucket,

First, I am not a dude! The title of this thread is, “Divorce or Annulment” and there is no grounds for either. We haven’t heard the hudbsnd’s side, so you are wrong in condeming him publicly.

 

[Angelsflight]

Hello Bucket,

First, I am not a dude! The title of this thread is, “Divorce or Annulment” and there is no grounds for either. We haven’t heard the hudbsnd’s side, so you are wrong in condeming him publicly.

Ugh. Do we need to hear the husbands side? I am sure she is not lying.

 

[SonCatcher]

Ugh. Do we need to hear the husbands side? I am sure she is not lying.

Any fair analysis does require it. However, even if he were to write his view here, we would be missing on nonverbal cues. Thus, only a qualified person meeting them personally would really be able to address the marital concerns.

 

[johndoe100]

Any fair analysis does require it. However, even if he were to write his view here, we would be missing on nonverbal cues. Thus, only a qualified person meeting them personally would really be able to address the marital concerns.

Yes I agree, but in most Parishes the priest will refer them to professional marriage counceling, which they can’t afford until the husband gets a steady job. One thing is for sure, giving the wife moral support to kick the husband out on the street with no job, doesn’t sound Christian.

One thing stands out with the secular advice presented, no one mentions the little boy. Maybe the kid loves his father regardless of his employment problems? There actually is a tight labor market. During 2007 we had 4 husbands unemployed on our block with the wife supporting the family. At present we have the guy nextdoor who hasn’t worked a day in the past year. They have a little girl who will start the 1st grade next fall. There us no complaints from the wife, and they are the secular druggy types with tattoos and all.

I think we can ask a Catholic couple who were married in church to put their little boy first, like the druggies nextdoor do.

 

[kohotali]

Just wanted to let you know that my husband was out of work for these past 6 months until earlier this month when he started new work. Now he wants to quit after 2-3 weeks because it’s “too much work”. I can’t count how many jobs he has had since we got married 3 years ago. Job #8, 9 now gone? I need prayers because I’m flat out.

 

[SerraSemper]

Just wanted to let you know that my husband was out of work for these past 6 months until earlier this month when he started new work. Now he wants to quit after 2-3 weeks because it’s “too much work”. I can’t count how many jobs he has had since we got married 3 years ago. Job #8, 9 now gone? I need prayers because I’m flat out.

Talk to your local diocesan tribunal and talk with a canonist there. Each diocese has one and even if you are out of the USA, you should be able to talk to a canon lawyer somewhere in your country. If not, ask your diocese’s chancery or military chaplain how to get in touch with a local canon lawyer. They will help you with your questions and more accurately than your average parish priest.