Divorce; why not?

[Still_Hoping]

Let us say that you were in a tumultuous relationship ( it can happen even to the best of us) and you end up pregnant or impregnating your girlfriend (let’s not focus why). You decide to get married only to realize thereafter that the person you married is not who you thought they were. They become abusive (could be physically, verbally, psychologically or all of the above). You try to communicate but it doesn’t get through. You pray and seek help from priests, psychologists, community. The only answer you get is divorce or stay and make it work. Spiritually, you feel bound and you have an obligation to save your marriage. It comes with a price; your well-being. You continually forsake yourself to appease the other. Ten, fifteen, twenty years down the line and you find stability of some sort but you are not happy. You pray for God to relieve your depression and your dissatisfaction. Your marriage is not perfect, it isn’t want you want it to be but you tell yourself that it is what it is. You love for better or worse but worse seems to dominate. Your children love you but you constantly fight. They are not what you wanted them to be. You could only pray to God to find peace and to guide them. The only love you feel is God’s. You feel alone but He is there. Your partner in life is dedicated to you but you are not one. He/she refuses to go to any counselling together. They say you need it not them.

Should you go on living this way? Does it ever go away? Are you better off alone rather than feeling depressed because your dream is gone and this person is a stranger to you. This person who won’t admit they ever hurt you and even makes you feel you were the problem. Does God wants us to be in this sort of state? Is it more important to stay married or to love deeply.

 

[GreyWings]

Civilly, a divorce is required for an annulment process. Catholicism does not recognize divorce, rather, the Tribunal assesses whether the marriage was valid.

I have had an annulment. It was actually a healing process. According to the Church, I’ve never been married. And it really wasn’t a marriage - only in the eyes of the law it was with a signed paper.

Marriage is not meant to be easy. Marriage is hard. Marriage isn’t just the feeling of love, it is love as a choice to stay with that person.

My best advice is to try to make it work with counseling. Fighting has to be fair in marriage. Name-calling and abuse is not okay.

I’ll pray for you.
GW

 

[Regina7]

I think a big mistake is assuming that the depression/sadness will go away with a divorce. It very well may not. Many of us glamorize the other side, but once we are there, it doesn’t hold up to our expectations.

 

[Anglewannabe]

The only love you feel is God’s.

Only ??? If I really felt God’s love, doesn’t matter what my circumstances were, I wouldn’t have a problem in the world

 

[Allegra]

Only ??? If I really felt God’s love, doesn’t matter what my circumstances were, I wouldn’t have a problem in the world

That’s what I thought too. For most people, it’s the other way around. THey feel the love from their family and friends, but never feel right because they don’t feel God’s love.

 

[Allegra]

I think a big mistake is assuming that the depression/sadness will go away with a divorce. It very well may not. Many of us glamorize the other side, but once we are there, it doesn’t hold up to our expectations.

Also true. Divorce is horrible, especially when there are children involved. Sometimes the marital home really is so intolerable that separation is the only reasonable option, but that doesn’t mean the pain or the problems go away.

 

[Joy2day]

The church allows divorce or living separately in cases of domestic violence or if one person leaves etc. It also requires divorce in order to grant an annulment. I know someone whose ex wife applied for & received an annulment after 20 years of marriage & 5 kids. This person didnt understand how there could have been no real marriage after all that, but the church didnt agree.

 

[Trident_H]

Civilly, a divorce is required for an annulment process. Catholicism does not recognize divorce, rather, the Tribunal assesses whether the marriage was valid.

I have had an annulment. It was actually a healing process. According to the Church, I’ve never been married. And it really wasn’t a marriage - only in the eyes of the law it was with a signed paper.

Marriage is not meant to be easy. Marriage is hard. Marriage isn’t just the feeling of love, it is love as a choice to stay with that person.

My best advice is to try to make it work with counseling. Fighting has to be fair in marriage. Name-calling and abuse is not okay.

I’ll pray for you.
GW

I’m with Grey on this. This is well put. Really.

 

[Neofight]

Marriage is not meant to be easy. Marriage is hard. Marriage isn’t just the feeling of love, it is love as a choice to stay with that person.

Really?

If it is not meant to be easy, and then as you say is hard, does that mean marriage is meant to be hard?

Certainly not.

If its hard, its because we chose to make it hard.

 

[Trident_H]

Really?

If it is not meant to be easy, and then as you say is hard, does that mean marriage is meant to be hard?

Certainly not.

If its hard, its because we chose to make it hard.

Nothing meaningful’s easy. Not really.

And no one chooses to make meaningful things hard. No one I know of.

 

[EasterJoy]

Theoretically, the OP is talking about problems that are in the range that* could* indicate an invalid attempt at marriage or *could be *legitimate reasons for a separation with the bond remaining with a civil divorce required for the just division of assets and the protection of parental rights, even if the marriage is valid. They could also, however, indicate a situation that is colored at least partly by a perception brought on by factors that are psychological or psychiatric, a perception that might change when those confounding variable are addressed in their own right.

Practically speaking, however, whenever someone is in the realm where a separation with the bond remaining or even a decree of nullity is theoretically possible, they are automatically in territory that is beyond the pay grade of a band of anonymous lay persons. The only exception I can think of is a defect in form that makes the marriage obviously null, but even then we are talking about a problem that can only really be addressed with the help of an ecclesiastical authority.

No, I would not go on living that way. I would enlist professional help, both pastoral and psychological, in order to sort out why my life seemed the way it seemed and to discern how to talk about this with my spouse and move forward in the best way possible. This is not a situation that is likely to just get better by itself. If anything, I would say that even if the marriage is valid and entirely salvageable into a happy union it will still get harder and harder to live the common conjugal life the longer this goes on. No matter what you want or need, doing nothing is a bad way to get it, in this case.

Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. Go get some real qualified-skin-on-look-you-in-the-eye help

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

If the person has done all they could to make their life better, such as discuss the issues with their spouse/kids, seek professional help, help of clergy, advice of friends, etc. I think that person has probably exhausted most of their avenues of relief. The only other ones I can think of are Retrovauille and The Love Dare Challenge.

After the last two avenues of relief are explored and nothing changes, then I would say then one should seek at minimum a legal separation, if not, a divorce. I know getting divorced isn’t the Catholic thing to do, but I also don’t think someone who has exhausted all their options in trying to make things better should feel that they have to stay in a marriage that they have been unhappy in for years.

I get that the CC doesn’t recognize divorce and only annulments. Still, I would say that it may be better to separate and/or divorce than to stay married when things clearly have been miserable for years.

 

[catrina2223]

I believe in working it, and trying everything possible before talking of divorce. However, if the partner is abusive and not willing to work towards a better marriage, I’d leave.

Praying for you.

 

[Still_Hoping]

I believe in working it, and trying everything possible before talking of divorce. However, if the partner is abusive and not willing to work towards a better marriage, I’d leave.

Praying for you.

Let us say the partner is not abusive anymore. Let us go further and say he/she is loving when the other is loving and spiteful when the other is. He/she tries to show patience but they still get angry about the most stupid things. Let’s say that he/she is hard-working to the point that hey help others and their partner’s needs come last. He/she is loved by all and very few know what they did.

The problem: a partner who is not repentant, can be insensitive, is too proud to admit their shortcomings. Lackluster in their life and is not committed to teaching the CCC to their children or at least finds it unnecessary to be dedicated. Also, makes empty promises, big and small. In all the years you know them they hardly take your opinion to be valid and their’s is the last word. At least if you give them something they want in return maybe then they will give.

 

[Still_Hoping]

Theoretically, the OP is talking about problems that are in the range that* could* indicate an invalid attempt at marriage or *could be *legitimate reasons for a separation with the bond remaining with a civil divorce required for the just division of assets and the protection of parental rights, even if the marriage is valid. They could also, however, indicate a situation that is colored at least partly by a perception brought on by factors that are psychological or psychiatric, a perception that might change when those confounding variable are addressed in their own right.

Yes, but the couple was interrogated before marrying in the church and were found to be both willing and aware of the vows to be taken.

No, I would not go on living that way. I would enlist professional help, both pastoral and psychological, in order to sort out why my life seemed the way it seemed and to discern how to talk about this with my spouse and move forward in the best way possible. This is not a situation that is likely to just get better by itself. If anything, I would say that even if the marriage is valid and entirely salvageable into a happy union it will still get harder and harder to live the common conjugal life the longer this goes on. No matter what you want or need, doing nothing is a bad way to get it, in this case.

Thank you for your honesty. There is one bit I forgot. The partner suffering is jobless, has no pension, is doing everything to move forward but only finding closed doors. This can place the person in a deeper state of depression. Perhaps the external factors are influencing their decision rather than the state of the marriage. I mean, aren’t most marriages mediocre at best?

Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. Go get some real qualified-skin-on-look-you-in-the-eye help

Find someone who will help? Too many opinions renders a person more confused. Let’s say that you don’t want to hurt the children (teens by now) so you wait till they leave the home. Is that good? If God is your only solace, then shouldn’t that be reason enough to be happy?

 

[Still_Hoping]

I have had an annulment. It was actually a healing process. According to the Church, I’ve never been married. And it really wasn’t a marriage - only in the eyes of the law it was with a signed paper.

I find this strange. You could marry and live with someone as husband and wife, have children and the CC could say it never has been?

Marriage is not meant to be easy. Marriage is hard. Marriage isn’t just the feeling of love, it is love as a choice to stay with that person.

Even in the mist of emptiness, only God’s love can infuse life into anything. But the reality is that it feels wrong plenty of times and feels right at other times. Confusing right?

My best advice is to try to make it work with counseling. Fighting has to be fair in marriage. Name-calling and abuse is not okay.

Tried that. The person is convinced that the partner is depressed and the problem is with them.

I’ll pray for you.
GW

 

[Still_Hoping]

I think a big mistake is assuming that the depression/sadness will go away with a divorce. It very well may not. Many of us glamorize the other side, but once we are there, it doesn’t hold up to our expectations.

There is merit to this. One shouldn’t divorce because they think they will find something better but rather because their marriage is not salvageable and they are miserable. But will you be more miserable out there alone? Especially, if you dedicated the last 20 or more years to the relationship.

 

[Neofight]

Nothing meaningful’s easy. Not really.

**So sad to think anyone could conclude that nothing meaningful is easy.

Love is the most meaningful of all things, and the easiest.

One only needs to recall holding their infant child for the first time…that love took no effort at all. It is natural. As natural as God’s love for each of us…perhaps that moment of unconditional love is when we best realize the meaning of our being created in the image of God, for He loves us without waiving, every minute of every day, like we love our own child when we first meet**

 

[Trident_H]

That guy Trident Said::

Nothing meaningful’s easy. Not really.

And no one chooses to make meaningful things hard. No one I know of.

**
And along came NeoFight and wrote in red::

So sad to think anyone could conclude that nothing meaningful is easy.

**
I think you’ve got it backwards. Because I’m up with my pal Grey on this. I’m calling you out of line here. Because you have no idea. You’ve no right to this. And you’re trying to get me between your thumb and forefinger. Not in way that make me feels uplifted in even a small way.
And along came NeoFight and wrote in red::

****Love is the most meaningful of all things, and the easiest.

---

---

****So do you love me then. Truly. With all your heart. In a fair and open way. Do you feel your heart beating faster for me. Can you feel the love racing through your veins. Has it reached your eyes yet. Are they watering. And your hands. Are they shaking. Is your breath coming in gasps. Are you feeling absolutely torn about this. Can’t eat. Can’t sleep. Totally mesmerized?

Or is yours a theoretical love. Trotted out when something’s needed. Something needs doing. But then safely stowed back away. Hidden from sight until the call comes again. Until the urge to use crops up again?

**** One only needs to recall holding their infant child for the first time…that love took no effort at all. It is natural. As natural as God’s love for each of us…perhaps that moment of unconditional love is when we best realize the meaning of our being created in the image of God, for He loves us without waiving, every minute of every day, like we love our own child when we first meet****

Instinctual love’s not spousal love. And you know that. I mean the love for a kitten’s not the same as the cultivated love for your teenage son. So please put your words back in order. And find the right way with this. Don’t look for sorrow where none’s been offered. Look and find instead the pain that’s on ready display. Dig deeper into the message here. And understand. Realize that a truth’s been stated. A fair one. And you’ve attempted to redistribute it. To hide it off to one side. And muddy the clear. With love that you aren’t showing. For someone who truly needs it.

No. Don’t look at me. I’m not the subject here. I never was. I’m a stand in for this battle. I’m just asking you not to twist the knife. That’s all.

Peace Neofight. I’m sorry we crossed words like this. I mean you no harm. I’m a bit broken about it actually. But I take my role as champion seriously. I can’t roll with this. Knowing how things stand. Knowing the depth of this. Truly.

-Trident

 

[heidi_storage]

Should you go on living this way? Does it ever go away? Are you better off alone rather than feeling depressed because your dream is gone and this person is a stranger to you. This person who won’t admit they ever hurt you and even makes you feel you were the problem. Does God wants us to be in this sort of state? Is it more important to stay married or to love deeply.

I can’t speak to your specific situation.

I do note that God has placed people in unhappy situations (eg Hosea, commanded to stick with an unfaithful wife; Job; Joseph (OT); many more. For this reason, I never say that God wants us to be happy. I think He wants us to be holy.

I also note that a fair number of unhappy marriages become happier:

americanvalues.org/catalog/pdfs/does_divorce_make_people_happy.pdf