Divorce

[FCGeorge]

Originally Posted by FCGeorge

I am curious how it is that your husband can be such a bad guy who is so horrible to your children and will traumatize your children by reuniting with you and will never change and yet you still believe that he is going to join you in heaven? (I am not saying that none of those things are true, I am just wondering how they could all be true.)

Because forgiveness and salvation is God’s to give, not hers, not yours, and not mine. We can’t possibly know, we aren’t to judge. If God wills it, it can happen. And we know that His desire is that all of us, even her husband, join Him in Heaven…

Hello Tryingtolearn,

Exactly, that is very well stated. Then how does she know that he will *never *change? That is what I was trying to get at. Of course he could change and God definitely desires that for him. He desires that all should come to know Him.

This is why I believe that we are to imitate our God and always be open to reconciliation upon true repentance of our prodigal spouse. We cannot know and we are not to judge that God will never soften the heart of the one we love.

I should never pronounce, “I have waited
‘x’ number of years and sacrificed myself for too long. I have done enough. I therefore close the door to reconciliation. I have given enough of my life and my self. She will never change and I now know it!”

Of course a spouse could confess his sin and repent of his sinful ways and end up with our Blessed Lord forever in Heaven. The other spouse cannot know when or if this will happen. The other spouse can remain faithful, persevere in hope and choose to love.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

 

[FCGeorge]

Originally Posted by christlifer
I have skimmed this thread on Divorce. I am new to this forum
and have a question on this subject.

Maybe someone here can help me.

When a non Catholic divorces three times, then converts to
Catholicism, how can the Catholic church accept this person
when his previous three wives are still alive? This makes him
an adulterer doesn’t it?

Thanks for any help you can give. Including Scripture in your
answer is always a plus.

christlifer

Hello Christlifer,
When I first started looking at this a few years ago I looked and Luke 16 and Mark 10 and realized that no matter what translation we use we all fit into the “whosoever” “anybody” “everybody” “anyone” category. This is true. But there is a very important reason for the exception to be in Matthew’s gospel.

Joanofarc had a good comment and a pretty good link there (except for the promotion of the annulment… this is something that I cannot find promoted by any of the Church fathers even though many wrote on divorce and remarriage. The Church fathers encouraged the civilly divorced to remain faithful. And they encouraged those who had “remarried” after a civil divorce to cease their sexual relationship because it is adulterous and back then adulterers did not inherit eternal life (now we have found a new Christianity where adulterers do inherit eternal life because God is love and love is desiring someone to feel happy and my adulterous remarriage makes me feel happy). The Church fathers did not encourage civilly divorced spouses to seek annulments so that they could remain in what St. Augustine called “adulterous remarriages.” Now we encourage them to “seek” an annulment.

Not saying that all annulments are wrong or bad or evil!!! If you find out that you “married” your long lost sister then you will be very appreciative that the Church is willing to grant a declaration of nullity and permit you to marry someone else should you desire to.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

 

[rainbow1]

Hello Tryingtolearn,

Exactly, that is very well stated. Then how does she know that he will *never *change? That is what I was trying to get at. Of course he could change and God definitely desires that for him. He desires that all should come to know Him.

This is why I believe that we are to imitate our God and always be open to reconciliation upon true repentance of our prodigal spouse. We cannot know and we are not to judge that God will never soften the heart of the one we love.

I should never pronounce, “I have waited
‘x’ number of years and sacrificed myself for too long. I have done enough. I therefore close the door to reconciliation. I have given enough of my life and my self. She will never change and I now know it!”

Of course a spouse could confess his sin and repent of his sinful ways and end up with our Blessed Lord forever in Heaven. The other spouse cannot know when or if this will happen. The other spouse can remain faithful, persevere in hope and choose to love.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

Hi Bryan…I am open to reconciliation with my exhusband…I am not open to living with him again…the Church totally supports me in my decision…

 

[rainbow1]

I am curious as to what types of differences there would be if annulments were offered before civil divorces took place.
I know that I was interested in the annulment process before the civil divorce, but that was not available.

 

[joanofarc2008]

So Bryan,

How are your theories working out for you? Since you are such an expert - have you reconciled yet?

 

[rainbow1]

Happy Valentine’s Day to all of you…thought this is special…enjoy!
[youtube.com/watch?v=1CSVqHcdhXQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CSVqHcdhXQ)

 

[joanofarc2008]

Happy Valentine’s Day to all of you…thought this is special…enjoy!

              [youtube.com/watch?v=1CSVqHcdhXQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CSVqHcdhXQ)

One of my favorite songs.

 

[FCGeorge]

So Bryan,

How are your theories working out for you? Since you are such an expert - have you reconciled yet?

HelloJoanofArc, hope you are well.

The goal is not reconciliation (although admittedly it was for the first couple years). Will the “theory work?” I have a confident assurance that it will but one day after this blink-of-an-eye life on earth is over I will know for certain!

May God bless you JoanofArc.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

 

[rainbow1]

So Bryan,

How are your theories working out for you? Since you are such an expert - have you reconciled yet?

What this post brings to mind is how divorce sort of levels us (or at least most of us) to the ground and makes us even question our own expertise in our own families. For me, it is like I had to reevaluate how I look at everything…things I previously thought I understood…marriage, parenting, God, myself, …sure does give us all the opportunity to grow with humility…
God bless all of you…

 

[joanofarc2008]

HelloJoanofArc, hope you are well.

The goal is not reconciliation (although admittedly it was for the first couple years). Will the “theory work?” I have a confident assurance that it will but one day after this blink-of-an-eye life on earth is over I will know for certain!

May God bless you JoanofArc.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

Thats your theory. I am just fine in obedience to the Church. You railing on the Bishops and the Clergy is old. You have just admitted that you don’t even want to take your own advice. So please stop pushing it on everyone else.

 

[FCGeorge]

Originally Posted by FCGeorge
HelloJoanofArc, hope you are well.

The goal is not reconciliation (although admittedly it was for the first couple years). Will the “theory work?” I have a confident assurance that it will but one day after this blink-of-an-eye life on earth is over I will know for certain!

May God bless you JoanofArc.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

Thats your theory. I am just fine in obedience to the Church. You railing on the Bishops and the Clergy is old. You have just admitted that you don’t even want to take your own advice. So please stop pushing it on everyone else.

Good morning Joanofarc,
I’m sorry if it has come across as “pushing it on everyone else.” The “theory” of remaining faithful to a spouse who has abandoned you is definitely not something that I created. I am hopeful for reconciliation but that is not the end goal. My goal is to obey my Lord. My hope for my wife is that she repents of the grave sin of divorce. But that is not primarily so that our reconciliation occurs. It is primarily for my hope for her salvation and for her and I to witness to our children and others around us the truth of the indissolubility of marriage and that we are to love our spouse as Christ loves the Church. She may never choose this. That does not change what I am called to do.

I am sorry if this has come across as targeting you. I do not know enough about your situation to even comment and I do not think I have mentioned your situation specifically. I am sorry if I have.

This is a tough day for those who have been abandoned. But we know that we are loved with a love that is more amazing than anything else in the world. We are loved by a Lover who sacrificed His very Self so that we could unite with Him forever in an Eternal Wedding Feast.

My goal is simply to defend the Truth that the Church has defended for nearly 2000 years so that those I love may not fall prey to the lies and instead bask in the Truth and one day enjoy that eternal loving embrace.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

 

[rainbow1]

Good morning Joanofarc,
I’m sorry if it has come across as “pushing it on everyone else.” The “theory” of remaining faithful to a spouse who has abandoned you is definitely not something that I created. I am hopeful for reconciliation but that is not the end goal. My goal is to obey my Lord. My hope for my wife is that she repents of the grave sin of divorce. But that is not primarily so that our reconciliation occurs. It is primarily for my hope for her salvation and for her and I to witness to our children and others around us the truth of the indissolubility of marriage and that we are to love our spouse as Christ loves the Church. She may never choose this. That does not change what I am called to do.

I am sorry if this has come across as targeting you. I do not know enough about your situation to even comment and I do not think I have mentioned your situation specifically. I am sorry if I have.

This is a tough day for those who have been abandoned. But we know that we are loved with a love that is more amazing than anything else in the world. We are loved by a Lover who sacrificed His very Self so that we could unite with Him forever in an Eternal Wedding Feast.

My goal is simply to defend the Truth that the Church has defended for nearly 2000 years so that those I love may not fall prey to the lies and instead bask in the Truth and one day enjoy that eternal loving embrace.

Bryan

LOVE SO AMAZING

Bryan, I think I am starting to see where you are coming from… I think.that you are concerned for your wife’s salvation and are angry at the Church because it did not “defend” your wife’s salvation. It reminds me of families in the hospital that would be so angry at the doctor because he did not heal their chronically ill children…and in some cases the parents did have legitimate reason for being angry, but in some it was just an overflow of pain. We all know that feeling of such raw pain.
But in your case, I am wondering if a representative of the Church did let you down? Did a certain priest encourage your wife in her leaving? I am just wondering.
I can only imagine how much you love your wife based on the intensity of your concern for her soul. Imagine how much our Lord loves her too… He will not let go of her. He will hang on to her for you. He will take care of her for you. For now, you need to take care of your sweet children and focus on them. Each morning, light a candle for your wife in front of a statue of Mary and ask Mary to pray for your wife all day long. She will do it for you, so that you can have a break from worry and just really focus on your kids and the new life you are making for yourself with them. Mary’s prayers will accomplish everything you hope for.
I am not sure it is your divorce that is evil. I am thinking it is the myriad of things leading up to it that caused the marriage not to work. And the myriad of things may not even be anything to do with you, or even your wife…and maybe not even any sort of evilness. It may just have been the circumstances. Maybe there are things your wife has been facing that she doesn’t even understand. Maybe she needs space to work out some stuff from her past that doesnt even involve you. Maybe the space will actually give her the chance to work through some stuff on her own that ultimately will bring her closer to God. Maybe God knows that. Trust in Him, Bryan…and the love He has for your wife. Trust in His love for you too.

 

[rainbow1]

One of my favorite songs.

Yeah, isn’t it wonderful!
I particularly loved the heart in the sand at the end…

 

[joanofarc2008]

My goal is simply to defend the Truth that the Church has defended for nearly 2000 years so that those I love may not fall prey to the lies and instead bask in the Truth and one day enjoy that eternal loving embrace.

You are not defending the Church. Instead you have attacked it, the clergy, the Bishops, and the teachings. The only things that has stopped me from reporting you several times is that you are suffering great pain.

 

[joanofarc2008]

And if you are confused I mean about the uncharitable comments towards our Bishops and Clergy that have sacrificed their whole lives and being in service to God.

 

[rainbow1]

Seems to me that we have lots of people hurting today due to it being Valentine’s day. Let’s keep this thread a good and safe place for all of us…
We have a lot of people who are hurting from ptsd (post traumatic stress disorder) and who see their divorce as a wonderful gift from God…it isn’t too fun to have your life threatened by someone or to be stalked by someone…so it makes sense that divorce would seem a blessing…
We also have a lot of people who are hurting from spouses who have left and who have no understandable resolution of the situation…leaving them feeling as if the Church did not support them and who equally are hurting but in a different way…so it makes sense that divorce would seem as an awful evil to them…
And I am sure there are countless other cases reading this thread who have their own painful story and ways of looking at divorce. Probably some see it as evil and as a blessing , depending on the moment…
But the underlying theme is that we all have experienced alot of pain and probably feel a huge lack of love today. Today , personally, I am hurting from seeing my dear friends fight on CAF. I have grown to know alot of you personally, and what a blessing…but the fact is all of you are really, really wonderful people, who just are seeing things from a different angle due to your circumstances. Please take the time to pm people and find out what the other true circumstances are, not just what they feel safe to post on the forum. It takes courage to do that. I am hoping and praying that for the rest of the day, we just drop all the differences and have dialogue genuinely based on helping one another feel the Lord’s Loving Presence…it is easy to argue, much more difficult to truly be vulnerable and share one’s pain with others…
Off topic…I am sort of worried about the elderly as a whole today. As I sit here alone today, I am reminded of the elderly in my community…some of whom have nobody to love them, much less a lover. So after I pick my daughter up from school we are going to go and deliver silk flowers, a cupcake balloon, pink nail polish, etc to a couple elderly ladies in our parish. The ‘divorced’ are not alone in their pain in the parish. Please reach out to the elderly in your parishes and let them know someone cares for them…
In the meantime, know that I am praying for all of you, that you will feel the Love of the Lord today, and that you have some moments of great joy mixed in with all the rest!!!

 

[stewstew03]

Seems to me that we have lots of people hurting today due to it being Valentine’s day. Let’s keep this thread a good and safe place for all of us…
We have a lot of people who are hurting from ptsd (post traumatic stress disorder) and who see their divorce as a wonderful gift from God…it isn’t too fun to have your life threatened by someone or to be stalked by someone…so it makes sense that divorce would seem a blessing…
We also have a lot of people who are hurting from spouses who have left and who have no understandable resolution of the situation…leaving them feeling as if the Church did not support them and who equally are hurting but in a different way…so it makes sense that divorce would seem as an awful evil to them…
And I am sure there are countless other cases reading this thread who have their own painful story and ways of looking at divorce. Probably some see it as evil and as a blessing , depending on the moment…
But the underlying theme is that we all have experienced alot of pain and probably feel a huge lack of love today. Today , personally, I am hurting from seeing my dear friends fight on CAF. I have grown to know alot of you personally, and what a blessing…but the fact is all of you are really, really wonderful people, who just are seeing things from a different angle due to your circumstances. Please take the time to pm people and find out what the other true circumstances are, not just what they feel safe to post on the forum. It takes courage to do that. I am hoping and praying that for the rest of the day, we just drop all the differences and have dialogue genuinely based on helping one another feel the Lord’s Loving Presence…it is easy to argue, much more difficult to truly be vulnerable and share one’s pain with others…
Off topic…I am sort of worried about the elderly as a whole today. As I sit here alone today, I am reminded of the elderly in my community…some of whom have nobody to love them, much less a lover. So after I pick my daughter up from school we are going to go and deliver silk flowers, a cupcake balloon, pink nail polish, etc to a couple elderly ladies in our parish. The ‘divorced’ are not alone in their pain in the parish. Please reach out to the elderly in your parishes and let them know someone cares for them…
In the meantime, know that I am praying for all of you, that you will feel the Love of the Lord today, and that you have some moments of great joy mixed in with all the rest!!!

Well done rainbow1!

 

[rainbow1]

youtu.be/4FdAB2FUFv4

Bryan…prayed for your wife listening to this song this morning…He will never let her go…

 

[TryingToLearn]

Probably some see it as evil and as a blessing , depending on the moment…

I agree with your entire post, but this part just rang so true for me the last few days… emotionally stressful and draining… and not just me, but my kids too, some of their emotional lows were probably in response to them sensing that beneath the surface I was hurting, some certainly had little to do with me… of course, that’s one of the two times it’s been easy for me to climb out of myself, recognizing that my kids need me to let God shine through is a great blessing and cure…

Being in Church in the presence of the Sacrament, be it exposed or in the tabernacle, just able to focus on His love for me is the other sure fire cure…

If only I didn’t have to go to work or deal with anything else and could spend 100% of my time with the kids or in the presence of the Eucharist the last week would have been much easier…

 

[mamaslo]

I agree with your entire post, but this part just rang so true for me the last few days… emotionally stressful and draining… and not just me, but my kids too, some of their emotional lows were probably in response to them sensing that beneath the surface I was hurting, some certainly had little to do with me… of course, that’s one of the two times it’s been easy for me to climb out of myself, recognizing that my kids need me to let God shine through is a great blessing and cure…

Being in Church in the presence of the Sacrament, be it exposed or in the tabernacle, just able to focus on His love for me is the other sure fire cure…

If only I didn’t have to go to work or deal with anything else and could spend 100% of my time with the kids or in the presence of the Eucharist the last week would have been much easier…

Our kids help us to Heaven too. They teach us how to love in spite of ourselves. We can be low and still pull it out of ourselves for them.