Divorce

[Luvtosew]

No my Parents had a major role in my beliefs, yes I was confirmed Catholic, but looking back and rereading some of the Baltimore Cathchism this am, well I wonder as an adult what my beliefs would be now to tell you the truth, so thank God for my Parents.

As I do believe I would of grown up more faithful to the Church than to God himself.

Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me

Cant agree more, but there are Christians outside the CC that also believe that, many good spirit filled people with a Passion for Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

No my Parents had a major role in my beliefs,

Well, yes. But unless they made everything up, they had to have gotten their beliefs about Jesus from somewhere.

Where?

From no place else except through the Catholic Church. (Through, of course,* their* parents, priests, bishops, Magisterial documents, Scripture and Tradition, etc)

That’s all that “no salvation outside the Church” means. Nothing more and certainly nothing less!

As I do believe I would of grown up more faithful to the Church than to God himself.

This is a false dichotomy, Luv.

Is there a way you know something about God that you didn’t get from the Church? If so, how do you know it’s true? Do you say, "I believe that God actually said " through another method of revelation?

Cant agree more, but there are Christians outside the CC that also believe that, many good spirit filled people with a Passion for Christ.

This is quite Catholic of you to say, Luv!

 

[Luvtosew]

Surely not the bible as the old Cathechism stated,
we need not read scripture as we wouldn’t understand, and we should rely on the Church for our salvation and faith(lot of good that did for many Catholics)

And Catholics should only marry other Catholics,

a lot has changed in the last 40 years.

 

[PRmerger]

Surely not the bible as the old Cathechism stated,
we need not read scripture as we wouldn’t understand, and we should rely on the Church for our salvation and faith(lot of good that did for many Catholics)

I think you do not know your Catechism very well, Luv.

Please provide the Catechism that said that we need not read Scripture.

And Catholics should only marry other Catholics,

a lot has changed in the last 40 years.

Well, if this is true, then why is there a process, 40 years ago as well as today, for a Catholic to marry a non-Catholic?

You’ll have to explain this, then, if Catholics should only marry other Catholics:

According to the law in force in the Latin Church, a mixed marriage needs for liceity the express permission of ecclesiastical authority. In case of disparity of cult an express dispensation from this impediment is required for the validity of the marriage. This permission or dispensation presupposes that both parties know and do not exclude the essential ends and properties of marriage; and furthermore that the Catholic party confirms the obligations, which have been made known to the non-Catholic party, of preserving his or her own faith and ensuring the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church. CCC1635

 

[PRmerger]

And Catholics should only marry other Catholics,

If this is true, are you saying that this poster lied about her aunt?

My sister married a non-catholic and they could not go up on the alter so they were married at the foot of the alter. That was 50 years ago. My niece married a non-Catholic but they were allowed on the alter.

Are you saying that 50 years ago the Church wouldn’t marry them, but these people somehow subverted the rule?

 

[EvelynEVF]

Actually there were numerous comments saying that the Church was against mixed marriages, which is not the case. If that statement were to be true, then it is stereotyping marriages between Catholics and non-Catholics, which also stereotypes non-Catholics.

The Church is very cautious about mixed marriages. I’m not sure I understand what stereotype you’re talking about. That mixed marriages are difficult? I believe that one is true. That non-Catholics will pull a Catholic away from his ir her faith? Well, we see that happen a lot, when the Catholic isn’t deeply committed to begin with. If these are the stereotypes you’re talking about, then I guess they are stereotypes for a reason, and that’s why Catholics are required to be in conversation with a priest for permission or dispensation.

It is very, very hard for me to believe that a marriage between a devout Catholic and a devout Muslim can work. The Muslim, if s/he really believes what that religion teaches, believes that the Catholic is an infidel and a heretic of the highest order. The Catholic may well believe that the Muslim is on a path to God, but that path is far from ideal. Interiorly, that’s got to be painful.

We are not required to convert the people we love, but certainly we must wish it with all our hearts.

 

[EvelynEVF]

I think you all know I was talking about someone who wants to get remarried, but boy we have to nit pick on here. Its all very easy to understand.

You were not precise. #1 and #2 are viable options for a faithful Catholic. #3 and #4 are what people can do if they insist on remarrying adulterously and do not mind being in a state of persistent mortal sin over it.

 

[Luvtosew]

PR- I don’t remember what that one poster said about her aunt.

Its like the Good Father said, very hard to get a dispensation back then, and yes they only married two Catholics, unless the granted a dispensation which was probably few and far in between.

I imagine it depended where one lived too , if there were not other single Catholics available, etc , I’m sure there must of been other reasons, but it was surely frown upon.

and well many things were very different today than the early 20th century. Well even with the advent of home internet now, things are really different since the 90’s.

 

[Luvtosew]

You were not precise. #1 and #2 are viable options for a faithful Catholic. #3 and #4 are what people can do if they insist on remarrying adulterously and do not mind being in a state of persistent mortal sin over it.

your right.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Its like the Good Father said, very hard to get a dispensation back then, and yes they only married two Catholics, unless the granted a dispensation which was probably few and far in between.

Yes, they had to get a dispensation. Yes, the priest would probably have given them a hard time about it. But how many applied and were granted v. denied I have no idea. Society was also very different back then, many people didn’t seek a mixed marriage. People 50-60 years ago tended to “stick to themselves” to an alarming extent. A marriage between an Irish Catholic and an Italian Catholic was culturally seen as a “mixed marriage” lol.

My father was french and my mother irish, both Catholic. However my father was so concerned what his mother would think about marrying a non-french girl that he at first told her his fiance was Jewish. Then when he later told her the truth she was relieved that at least his fiance was a Catholic. A lot has changed and while I’ve heard stories about mixed religion couples feeling they were treated shabbily I don’t recall any stories of them actually being denied. I’m not saying it never happened but given the social taboo I don’t think there were all that many cases to begin with.

 

[PRmerger]

PR- I don’t remember what that one poster said about her aunt.

Luv, please look at the post. I included her response in it. You don’t need to “remember”. You just need to read my post., #564.

 

[faithsmind]

So happy Luvstosew came to join this type of convo. Thanks!

To rainbows- I admire you for seeking ways to minister and reach out to the divorced. It’s such a hard time, and we must remember Jesus calls us to reach out to those on the fringe and to those that are suffering. Since divorce comes from many different situations, it’s so easy for people to assume wrongly. It has the word “bad” written all over it. Most people are in marriages that are difficult, and it’s easy for those people to assume that those who have divorced just didn’t try hard enough. I must admit, I had these thoughts when I was still with my husband. I would have been hesitant to make good friends with someone who had children without a husband in the home. I had this image in my head, this image that being a good Catholic/Christian meant being in community with other “good/intact” Catholic/Christian families just like me. It’s just so easy to fall in to. Now I know I was mistaken. I can see why the divorced fall away from the church at this time. It is such a critical time when they need the support of the community the most–especially vulnerable, abused, and abandoned mothers and children. It is not the time to judge them and their situation. It is not the time to ask “why did you get divorced? (and if I like your reason, I’ll be your friend and help you)” It is the time to reach out, comfort and offer support and spiritual guidance. We MUST assume those who are divorced are acting on just grounds.

I am in the process of divorce, and consider myself a devout Catholic who strives to put His teachings first. I’m seeking legal help from the courts to figure out appropriate visitation and child support with my husband. My children need this help and protection of the law. I say husband because I’ve come to see the term “divorce” as a legal term, apart from my marriage in the church. But I have faced severe and hurtful judgement from those who don’t know me, at a time when I needed support the most. I could compare it to being a caricature or a leper.

It hurts me that some of you are bickering over the terms and legalities of it all. There is a lot of work to be done, here, I guess is what I’m saying. There is a HUGE gaping hole, a GINORMOUS absence of ministry, and a whole heck of a lot of people in this area to minister to, who are hurting. Casualties left over from 20th century ravaging our families and homes. We need to set up some armaments, here. There will be good fruit to come of this, yet.

 

[joanofarc2008]

So happy Luvstosew came to join this type of convo. Thanks!

To rainbows- I admire you for seeking ways to minister and reach out to the divorced. It’s such a hard time, and we must remember Jesus calls us to reach out to those on the fringe and to those that are suffering. Since divorce comes from many different situations, it’s so easy for people to assume wrongly. It has the word “bad” written all over it. Most people are in marriages that are difficult, and it’s easy for those people to assume that those who have divorced just didn’t try hard enough. I must admit, I had these thoughts when I was still with my husband. I would have been hesitant to make good friends with someone who had children without a husband in the home. I had this image in my head, this image that being a good Catholic/Christian meant being in community with other “good/intact” Catholic/Christian families just like me. It’s just so easy to fall in to. Now I know I was mistaken. I can see why the divorced fall away from the church at this time. It is such a critical time when they need the support of the community the most–especially vulnerable, abused, and abandoned mothers and children. It is not the time to judge them and their situation. It is not the time to ask “why did you get divorced? (and if I like your reason, I’ll be your friend and help you)” It is the time to reach out, comfort and offer support and spiritual guidance. We MUST assume those who are divorced are acting on just grounds.

I am in the process of divorce, and consider myself a devout Catholic who strives to put His teachings first. I’m seeking legal help from the courts to figure out appropriate visitation and child support with my husband. My children need this help and protection of the law. I say husband because I’ve come to see the term “divorce” as a legal term, apart from my marriage in the church. But I have faced severe and hurtful judgement from those who don’t know me, at a time when I needed support the most. I could compare it to being a caricature or a leper.

It hurts me that some of you are bickering over the terms and legalities of it all. There is a lot of work to be done, here, I guess is what I’m saying. There is a HUGE gaping hole, a GINORMOUS absence of ministry, and a whole heck of a lot of people in this area to minister to, who are hurting. Casualties left over from 20th century ravaging our families and homes. We need to set up some armaments, here. There will be good fruit to come of this, yet.

Your welcome to join us in our ministry - I don’t have the name of the group linked but it is highlighted. CAF wouldn’t give me enough characters

Evelyn - Thanks for sharing. You put it so very well. I am so glad that I do not have to live with the abuse of being anywhere near the situation anymore

 

[styrgwillidar]

So happy Luvstosew came to join this type of convo. Thanks!

To rainbows- I admire you for seeking ways to minister and reach out to the divorced. It’s such a hard time, and we must remember Jesus calls us to reach out to those on the fringe and to those that are suffering. Since divorce comes from many different situations, it’s so easy for people to assume wrongly. It has the word “bad” written all over it. Most people are in marriages that are difficult, and it’s easy for those people to assume that those who have divorced just didn’t try hard enough. I must admit, I had these thoughts when I was still with my husband. I would have been hesitant to make good friends with someone who had children without a husband in the home. I had this image in my head, this image that being a good Catholic/Christian meant being in community with other “good/intact” Catholic/Christian families just like me. It’s just so easy to fall in to. Now I know I was mistaken. I can see why the divorced fall away from the church at this time. It is such a critical time when they need the support of the community the most–especially vulnerable, abused, and abandoned mothers and children. It is not the time to judge them and their situation. It is not the time to ask “why did you get divorced? (and if I like your reason, I’ll be your friend and help you)” It is the time to reach out, comfort and offer support and spiritual guidance. We MUST assume those who are divorced are acting on just grounds.

I am in the process of divorce, and consider myself a devout Catholic who strives to put His teachings first. I’m seeking legal help from the courts to figure out appropriate visitation and child support with my husband. My children need this help and protection of the law. I say husband because I’ve come to see the term “divorce” as a legal term, apart from my marriage in the church. But I have faced severe and hurtful judgement from those who don’t know me, at a time when I needed support the most. I could compare it to being a caricature or a leper.

It hurts me that some of you are bickering over the terms and legalities of it all. There is a lot of work to be done, here, I guess is what I’m saying. There is a HUGE gaping hole, a GINORMOUS absence of ministry, and a whole heck of a lot of people in this area to minister to, who are hurting. Casualties left over from 20th century ravaging our families and homes. We need to set up some armaments, here. There will be good fruit to come of this, yet.

I am very grateful that the religious education minister has allowed me to continue teaching CCD throughout my divorce and after. It has surprised several people when I mention I teach CCD and am divorced due to misconceptions on the Church’s teachings on divorce and status as a Catholic.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Rainbow,

I don’t think anybody is stereotyping non-Catholics. We don’t refrain from mixed marriages not because they are awful people who will drag us away from our faith, but because there are huge difference between our faiths.

Were I to hypothetically be in a position to date, and if I believed I were called to the vocation of marriage, I would work pretty hard at finding a Catholic before I considered dating nonCatholics. About as far afield as I would consider would be faithful Lutherans or Anglicans or Orthodox. Maybe a non-liturgical denomination if I met the person in RCIA or something and they were well on their way to becoming Catholic.

Why? Because I believe in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. I have a particular devotion to the Precious Blood. Most of the Protestants I’ve met and was raised with, would have to believe that I was either idolatrous or deluded. Liturgical Protestants sometimes have an understanding of the Eucharist that comes closer to ours, but still isn’t valid.

How could I share my life and my heart with someone who couldn’t recognize my Jesus? And how could I risk falling in love with someone who didn’t, in the hopes of conversion, and then be stuck in such a hard place if they didn’t?

**There are so many sad stories on here about people who weren’t so serious about their faith, entered a mixed marriage, and then reverted. Even the really great marriages can be strained by this, a rule change in the middle of the game.
**
So it’s no personal offense to non Catholics. It’s just that it’s such a serious issue.

:sad_yes:

That would be me, except my husband and I are both Catholics, but were both lapsed when we married. I reverted, he did not, and we are stuck right there. It has been a HUGE gulf in our marriage and has deeply affected the raising of our 2 sons, although he has allowed them to be educated as Catholics and he goes to Mass with us. They have had zero male Catholic leadership from him, because he is basically an atheist with a Catholic coating on top. At times I have been in despair and wondering why God brought me back if it was only to cause such pain within my marriage.

So no, I would not recommend that Catholics date or marry someone of another faith, based upon my own experience. Yes, some non-Catholics convert. But in the meantime, it can be a really large chasm between husband and wife.

 

[Luvtosew]

Luv, please look at the post. I included her response in it. You don’t need to “remember”. You just need to read my post., #564.

I see you read the Baltimore Cathechism, didn’t you see in there about marriages. No I didn’t call anyone a liar, so her Aunt got married in the Church in the 60’s, the timeline for Vatican II right, I remember the changes, she probably got permission,

How long have you been Catholic. were you born Catholic?

 

[PRmerger]

Unless you can offer another way that you know what God has revealed?

If a person says, “I believe that my dog is Jesus Christ incarnate!” how are you going to know if it’s true or not? What canon will you use to discern whether this is true or not?

Whether you realize it or not, the canon you use is that which the CC has proclaimed.

Is there a way you know something about God that you didn’t get from the Church? If so, how do you know it’s true? Do you say, "I believe that God actually said " through another method of revelation?

Hi, Luv,

Just wondering if you could address the 2 posts above, specifically with regard to my question as to how you may know anything about Jesus and God, except through His revelation, as revealed to you through the Catholic Church.

(NB: Of course, we can use reason alone to determine that God exists–Aquinas et al argued that quite eloquently. But as to any other qualities about God–that He is love, that He forgives our sins, that He is our sole judge, that He is a Trinity, well, are you claiming that you know this through some other source?)

 

[PRmerger]

I see you read the Baltimore Cathechism, didn’t you see in there about marriages. No I didn’t call anyone a liar, so her Aunt got married in the Church in the 60’s, the timeline for Vatican II right, I remember the changes, she probably got permission,

'zactly!

So your statement that it used to be that Catholics could only marry Catholics is incorrect. We always needed permission. We needed permission then. We need permission now.

How long have you been Catholic. were you born Catholic?

Well, I was born pagan, like everyone else.

Baptized a Catholic a few weeks later.

 

[Luvtosew]

The Real Juliana,
I’m sorry to hear about your husband.

I agee with you and since coming to this message board I do believe also that Like Catholics should marry
Like Catholics, I hate to use the word Like,but I did because like anything else, not all Catholics are alike ya know.

 

[cviolette]

I am very grateful that the religious education minister has allowed me to continue teaching CCD throughout my divorce and after. It has surprised several people when I mention I teach CCD and am divorced due to misconceptions on the Church’s teachings on divorce and status as a Catholic.

I was wondering if the allow someone that is in the process of divorce to teach. That is good to know. I teach 8th grade CCD and would hate to stop. I love the kids. Of course, I would discuss it with the religious education director.