Once again, its not as overly simplified as that. I don’t understand why you constantly take complex situations and reduce them to an absurdly simplified situation.
The canons don’t define adultery in that manner, so no.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Untrue.
I think most individuals who have been the gut wrenching process of an annulment would greatly disagree.
What’s your point?
So then you do recognize that sometimes its not as easy as “yes, I forgive you and you can move back in and everything is normal again…”???
I so know what being tied in knots feels like…have you thought about what type of job you want? I have been staying home too, and soon will be starting the same search…big changes … Will be praying for your situation…
Lots of times when people take complex situations and reduce them to a more simplified situation, it is because their emotional pain is so large that this is how they actually see things. For example, when a woman is raped, she oftentimes starts to experience all men as a danger, which of course not all of them are. When a child has a nasty mother, then sometimes that child sees all women as something quite horrible (which of course not all of us are
)… When a person goes through a divorce, depending on possible trauma involved, once again things can look really simplified to some…such as All divorces seeming bad, or All divorces seeming fantastic, which of course is not the case…but it can take time and healing for a different understanding to take place. A very rational person can have this type of experience where everything seems a certain way. After my daughter was in a horrible car accident, all drivers seemed crazy to me! And I really was looking for those crazy drivers to prove how horrible all drivers are…though in this part of the country, drivers are horrible…
…and I am not necessarily rational!!! haha…I have a bachelor degree in electrical engineering and about 15 years experience as a software engineer. I am applying for any job that my previous skills overlap. I just want an entry level job at a high tech or startup company so that I can get more current skills. Right now I don’t even care what the pay is. I just need a current job and to update my skills on my resume. I just started applying yesterday. There were 5 jobs that I could easy perform that I applied for. My states unemployment rate is low but it still takes a long time to find a job.
Good morning Joanofarc, I am sorry that you read the post that way. Certainly biological parents are “capable” of molesting children. It does on very, very rare occasion happen. The fact that there is “40 times” something in the one study and "100 times greater than” something in the other shows that there are certainly occasions of abuse in a household with biological parents. 40 times 0 or 100 times greater than 0 would mean that abuse also never happens in step-parent households! Sadly, abuse can happen in any family arrangement. It is just much less likely in a family where the biological parents are present.
I love it.
( No one knows St. Monica’s exact situation. It’s not good to assume. I don’t see her as having the opportunity to leave, since things were different, socioeconomically, especially for women. I don’t know how violent her husband was, bless her. Perhaps God put her there to suffer for the sake of 3 conversions. Should someone throw their body into a rosebush because St. Francis passionately did so? I strongly feel what I did was right, though. There has been no indication otherwise, even when seeking the counsel of many different conservative priests. I was seeking to do Christ’s will and please Him. How can we lump every incident under the law with complete objectivity? It requires discernment, faith, reason, love. Many would say I should have left my husband at first sign of abuse. I am glad I did not, even to this day. Many would say I should not have brought 6 children into such an unhealthy situation. I’ve come to understand that God is much more powerful than I am. And because of Him in His goodness and mercy, my children are very strong, mature and devout for other children their age. They have a deepness that I wish I had before getting married.Father, I realize that each situation is different and that there may be “a million moving parts to each marital ‘equation.’” There could be 10 million moving parts and it would not change the Truth that I will be forgiven as I forgive others.
The point was just to supply another reason as to why it is important for the shepherds of the Catholic Church (and lay people) to defend marriage against divorce and to grant declarations of nullity in only those situations when it is proven beyond any doubt that two people were really not validly married. The more divorces that occur and the more declarations of nullity that are handed out, the more “blended families” we have and the more child abuse we have.
I do not know Faithsmind’s heart but this truly seems like that of a Christ-like heart. It is a heart that, out of love of the other (the spouse and and children) chose to leave. It appears to be a heart that is open to reconciliation upon her husband’s true repentance… just as Christ was for her (assuming she once needed that, as St. Monica did; ). God bless her, she hasn’t even referred to him as an “ex” husband! And, I imagine that even if a civil divorce hasn’t happened, but does need to happen as the only way to protect her and the children, then her *heart *will not believe to be her “ex” husband.
Bryan,
I applaud you for getting your children out of a violent situation. I can only imagine the pain you have suffered and what strength it took for you to leave such a debilitating situation for the sake of your children. Please continue to seek spiritual direction of a priest or nun or a therapist skilled in child abuse if your children have unsupervised visitation with your ex. May God bless and keep all of you safe…Tough not to become a thread hack on this one…you guys are all hacks, you know that? Nothing could be nerdier than discussing doctrine/church teaching online with all the Catholic computer geeks.
What FCGeorge has brought up has touched a chord with me. I feel the same way as him. I think there have been way too many annulments on silly details. It’s created a lot of confusion. There’s no bones about it that St. Monica’s marriage was invalid. But that’s not the point. St. Monica was doing the best that she saw fit to do. She was seeking to please the Lord. This is what the Lord wants. He wants us to love Him and continue on His paths of truth in as much of the way we can understand. This is not about perfect interpretation of the law. The disciples were dummies. Nice! This is not to excuse their faults, or to excuse the teachings of the church, but if a person is seeking to please Christ, I believe they will be with Him. Ultimately, this is what it’s about.
Then I remember Moses telling his people that divorce was OK. I remember Jesus teaching that this was because our hearts are hard. Jesus went on to teach what the Church now upholds. Both Christ and Moses’s teachings are for our sake–not Christ’s sake. They are there because He loves us and wants the best for us.
St. Monica’s life inspired me. I saw her virtue, and I continued to set her life as an example for me. I love her and talk to her often. Her husband was a public official like mine. He suffered from angry outbursts, like mine. And he had a “sexual addiction” if you will, like mine. I even visited her chapel at the Vatican, wondering where her image was. I took a seat, prayed the devotionals, looked up, and then saw her overpowering, larger-than-life statue. But shockingly, her compassionate gaze, etched in stone, was fixed directly at me. From then on I knew she was intercessing in heaven for my family. Like crazy. ha ha.
I would often struggle about leaving my husband. I was confused. I looked at Monica’s life, and wondered what I should do. I faced my hub’s violence and sexual betrayals over and over. I sought to be gentle and compassionate with him. And I did, and it helped. We went to marriage counselors, and he would get better for a while. I stayed for 11 years. But one day, I decided to leave because of the escalation in violence, the fear my children had, and for our safety. Unfortunately my husband still refuses to commit to impulse control counseling.
That is great that you are so well educated!!! Jobs sure are hard to find…am praying for you!I have a bachelor degree in electrical engineering and about 15 years experience as a software engineer. I am applying for any job that my previous skills overlap. I just want an entry level job at a high tech or startup company so that I can get more current skills. Right now I don’t even care what the pay is. I just need a current job and to update my skills on my resume. I just started applying yesterday. There were 5 jobs that I could easy perform that I applied for. My states unemployment rate is low but it still takes a long time to find a job.
Thank you for your prayers
Indeed, but there’s a reason that Christ told us to be as innocent as doves but also wise as foxes.
I disagree. I think it gets complicated when we seek to be responsible. People can look for “outs” by making things complicated or overly simple, they’re simply looking for what gives them the out. Jesus told us to love our neighbor as ourselves. Thus we need to love ourselves. People who love and understand themselves as children of God sometimes need to draw lines in the sand in order demand that respect from others.
But God also knows and sees the heart, we cannot do so. If someone doesn’t believe another has changed or is capable of change, we’re left with a difficult situation.
We’re talking apples and oranges here. I was referring to what canon law was addressing thus we need to define the terms as they are used in canon law.
And it doesn’t change the fact that forgiveness is a process that is struggled with by fragile human persons. Grace builds on nature, it doesn’t override it.
The issue is that it can’t be simplified to a forum post. Annulment cases when typed out are essentially small books, that’s how complicated it gets.
Right, but someone who sexually molested a child is never going to be allowed to be alone with their own children. Anything else isn’t forgiveness its foolishness and dangerous.
Google search, you’ll find 'em.
That should be wise as serpents… I’m not the infallible one
One of the few things that could prove a woman wrong… Just kidding but figured we needed a little levity to the divorce thread.That should be wise as serpents… I’m not the infallible one
I vote for foxes, they are more beautiful…That should be wise as serpents… I’m not the infallible one
