Do any Protestants believe in the Assumption?

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twf said:
It suggests Our Lady was deprived her share in the resurrection. The Assumption is meant to be a foretaste of the ultimate destiny of the Church… which is a share in the resurrection.
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The counterargument to the whole “Mary had to die or she doesn’t share in the Resurrection” argument is that Mary experienced the pain and horror of death when she saw her Son die and shared in all of his pain and emotion. So she did experience bodily death through him.

I myself don’t take a position, I’m just saying that’s what the counterargument is, for those who like to argue this point, which I don’t.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
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twf:
It suggests Our Lady was deprived her share in the resurrection. The Assumption is meant to be a foretaste of the ultimate destiny of the Church… which is a share in the resurrection.
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The counterargument to the whole “Mary had to die or she doesn’t share in the Resurrection” argument is that Mary experienced the pain and horror of death when she saw her Son die and shared in all of his pain and emotion. So she did experience bodily death through him.
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Though there’s also the claim that that’s when she experienced her birthing pains, so that swirling morass of metaphors kind of runs together.
 
HopkinsReb said:
Though there’s also the claim that that’s when she experienced her birthing pains, so that swirling morass of metaphors kind of runs together.
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The priest who sermonized at one of the Masses I attended yesterday about how Mary didn’t die also claimed she didn’t feel any pain of childbirth, and that she was spared all these things because she didn’t have any original sin.

I am not going to challenge Father about this, but I was sitting there thinking, “And now a whole lot of people are going to be really confused and shocked if they’re actually listening to this sermon and then hear from another priest in a few months or a year that Mary actually did die or felt childbirth pains, because the Church doesn’t speak definitively on these matters. And if they are confused enough they will probably start a CAF thread.”

Then in the evening I went to another Mass 11 miles away and heard a priest preach that Mary actually did die.

Catechesis gets interesting sometimes.
 
To preach definitively that she didn’t die, also causes confusion / scandal for anyone who may be familiar with the Eastern tradition, where it is definitive that she did die… heck the feast is called the Dormition in the East.
 
I agree, and also think there’s a problem with preaching definitively in the Latin church that she did die. However, when priests are making the effort to teach their parishioners, I don’t like to be critical of it. Most of those in the pews are not going to think further of this death issue at all and will just remember that the Assumption is when Mary went up to Heaven body and soul. Which is all that’s required. Half of these people probably have enough on their plate just differentiating the Ascension from the Assumption.
 
Fair enough. I’m sensitive to it as an ecumenical issue…we’ve had Orthodox Christians come on here and raise the Assumption as an issue between our Churches as Catholics “deny her death”…which is a misunderstanding. But for the average Catholic in the pew? …yeah not a big deal either way.
 
Tolle_Lege said:
Who is greater, Mary or Enoch? If Enoch did not see death, then logically Mary did not see death either.
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I’m personally of the school of thought that she did not die, though it’s off no consequence since Jesus also died while sinless and free from original sin. As for Enoch, he will die. He’s being saved for a mission with Elijah when they will both suffer death.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
This led me to thinking: why would a Protestant or evangelical categorically deny the Assumption of Our Lady into heaven at the time of her death?
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For many Protestants, since Mary’s assumption isn’t specifically mentioned in the Bible in contrast to other major tenets of the faith being listed in Holy Scripture, the subject doesn’t receive much attention. The focus is on Jesus and will always rightly be so. Unfortunately, in many Protestant circles, Mary is an afterthought who only receives attention around Christmas time.

For me, since joining CAF over 5 years ago, I’ve gained more of an appreciation for Mary, her fiat, the big risk to her life and reputation in saying ‘Yes’ to God, her loyalty to Jesus as shown by being with Him at the crucifixion at the foot of the cross when many others were not present out of fear for their safety, and many other factors. I thank her occasionally in my prayers for her role in salvation history. She was more than just an incubator – she was the Mother of our Lord, aka “Mother of God”.

I think it is possible she was assumed into heaven in the manner Catholics believe. For example, if Elijah in the OT can be taken up into heaven, I think God could do the same for Mary, especially given her role as Jesus’ beloved and blessed mother. I can assent to her not having any other children and being the new ‘Eve’, the “ark of the new covenant”, and being kept sinless by an act of the Holy Spirit.

However, I still struggle and get the feeling sometimes that Catholics elevate her status dangerously high that flirts with ‘goddess’ status, and it bothers me a little that she was declared ‘Mother of God’ in Ephesus, which was where there had been ties to the goddess Artemis previously and worship of her, and sometimes I wonder if Mary’s status was raised as a way of filling the void left by Artemis and providing a substitute in the hearts and minds of the Mediterranean peoples after they quit worshiping Artemis/Diana. This last statement is not meant to offend Catholics in any way, just wanted to give an honest picture as to where I’m at in my spiritual journey. To contrast that, I must also admit I have prayed a few ‘Hail Mary’ prayers before after meditating on the things I mentioned in my second paragraph. Regardless of what I believe, I respect the Catholic view of Mary and would never try to dissuade any Catholic from following the Church’s position on her.
 
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Tommy999 said:
it bothers me a little that she was declared ‘Mother of God’ in Ephesus
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You probably know this already, but just throwing it out there: The title Mother of God is important because it has to do not so much with who Mary is (although of course that too!) but because of who Jesus is: both true God and true Man, two natures that cannot be separated, in one divine Person. So because Jesus Christ is true God in the flesh, and because Mary was his mother, she can truly be said to be the Mother of God. It is a great mystery, astounding and humbling to think that God has a mother.

The Council of Ephesus, as you probably also already know, settled several doctrinal disputes. One was that they condemned the teachings of Nestorius, who was saying that Mary should be called the Christotokos, “Birth Giver of Christ,” but not Theotokos, “Birth Giver of God.” The council declared that she was indeed Theotokos, the God-bearer. So you see, it was about settling an important question regarding the nature of Christ, not trying to come up with a fancy title for Mary. 🙂
 
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HomeschoolDad said:
As a side note, some Catholics believe that St Joseph was assumed into heaven as well. It is not a teaching of the Church, just a pious belief of some.
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I’ve been devoted to St. Joseph my whole life, and that is a new one on me.

The private revelations I have heard regarding St. Joseph is that one day we will discover his tomb, containing his bones.
 
meltzerboy2 said:
It is my understanding, based largely on information from a Catholic historian friend of mine, that the early Church actually wrestled with the notion of whether Mary did or did not die before her Assumption, and that the official teaching is somewhat ambiguous on this point. What is your take on this?
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I honestly think the apostles themselves didn’t know if she died or fell asleep. Something tells me that they didn’t have the opportunity to check her pulse 🙂
 
phil19034 said:
I honestly think the apostles themselves didn’t know if she died or fell asleep. Something tells me that they didn’t have the opportunity to check her pulse 🙂
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One of the priests I heard speak yesterday also started his homily with a joke about “the Assumption” meaning that “one day the Apostles noticed Mary wasn’t around any more and they ASSUMED she went to Heaven.”
After everyone groaned he quickly made sure to state the real meaning of the Assumption.

Inwardly I was sort of wincing thinking that somebody in the congregation who wasn’t paying attention will take his joke literally.
 
I teach in a Catholic university and have noticed that the priests I know have a wicked sense of humor. Maybe it’s needed in their profession, especially those who also teach.
 
Tolle_Lege said:
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AlmaRedemptorisMater:
The wording is intentionally avoiding the claim that She did not die. That is still undetermined.
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If Mary is also the Immaculate Conception, meaning she was conceived without original sin, and death is the punishment for original sin, then Mary did not die. I’m not sure why the Church always needs to be so timid and ambiguous in these matters. What’s the point of essentially proclaiming a dogma in unclear terms?

Furthermore, one of the other “proof texts” to support the Assumption is the taking of Enoch into heaven. Hebrews 11:5 states, “5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken he was attested as having pleased God.”

Who is greater, Mary or Enoch? If Enoch did not see death, then logically Mary did not see death either.
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Well… original sin introduced death into the world. But the lack of original sin doesn’t change our physical bodies. Only a souls.

If Mary the Immaculate Conception would have prevented Mary from death, it would have also (logically speaking) prevented her from aging once she reached her peak, biological maturity. There is NOTHING in Sacred Scripture or Sacred Tradition to imply that Mary still looked like a 20 or 30 year old when she was in her 60s.

Lower case T tradition says that Mary lived on Earth for 16 years after Jesus. If we assume that Mary was 14-16 when Jesus was born, and that Jesus was 32 when He died, then Mary would have been 46-48 when Jesus was crucified. If she lived for an additional 16 years until her Assumption when she was approx 62 / 64 years old when she went to Heaven.

If a 60 year old Mother of God still looked like she was 20 or 30 years old - one can be sure that would have made the Bible.

So I strongly believe that the Immaculate Conception did not protect her from death, but rather protected her from sin alone. Like Jesus, she inherited mortality from her parents. However, due to the Immaculate Conception, she did not inherit sin.

Afterall, if Mary would have been the only immortal person on the planet, when all the other saints were heaven bound, how would that have been fair to her?

God bless
 
St John the Baptist was born free of original sin… we celebrate his nativity as a solemnity of the Church. If St Joseph was too, it’s a hidden mystery. Either way, the Church teaches that Our Lady’s conception was a “singular” grace. It’s generally understood that St John was cleansed in the womb, at the Visitation, but not necessary at conception.
 
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