Do any Protestants believe in the Assumption?

[SetInMotion]

That’s a false statement.

The Church knows for sure that it occurred, hence it’s a dogma of the Catholic Church.

Really? What official statements do you have?

I have these:

“I answer that, Nothing is handed down in the canonical Scriptures concerning the sanctification of the Blessed Mary as to her being sanctified in the womb; indeed, they do not even mention her birth. But as Augustine, in his tractate on the Assumption of the Virgin, argues with reason, since her body was assumed into heaven, and yet Scripture does not relate this…” [Thomas Aquinas; Summa Theologica; Third Part; Question 27; Article I; “I answer that…”] [The Summa Theologica of St. Thomas Aquinas Second and Revised Edition, 1920 Literally translated by Fathers of the English Dominican Province Online Edition Copyright © 2008 by Kevin Knight Nihil Obstat. F. Innocentius Apap, O.P., S.T.M., Censor. Theol. Imprimatur. Edus. Canonicus Surmont, Vicarius Generalis. Westmonasterii. APPROBATIO ORDINIS Nihil Obstat. F. Raphael Moss, O.P., S.T.L. and F. Leo Moore, O.P., S.T.L. Imprimatur. F. Beda Jarrett, O.P., S.T.L., A.M., Prior Provincialis Angliæ MARIÆ IMMACULATÆ - SEDI SAPIENTIÆ ] - http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4027.htm

“… At the same time, it must be confessed that we do not possess any authentic documents bearing directly on Mary’s post-Pentecostal life. …” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; “The Most Blessed Virgin Mary”; subsection “The Post-pentesoctal Life Of Mary”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

“… Regarding the day, year, and manner of Our Lady’s death, nothing certain is known. …” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

“St. John Damascene St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

“The feast of the Assumption Regarding the origin of the feast we are also uncertain. It is more probably the anniversary of the dedication of some church than the actual anniversary of Our Lady’s death. That it originated at the time of the Council of Ephesus, or that St. Damasus introduced it in Rome is only a hypothesis. …” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Feast Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

It says “uncertain”, in contrast to your statement of “the church knows for sure”.

 

[De_Maria]

PeterT:

That’s a false statement.

The Church knows for sure that it occurred, hence it’s a dogma of the Catholic Church.

Really? What official statements do you have?

I have these:

“I answer that, …http://www.newadvent.org/summa/4027.htm

“… At the same time, it must be confessed that we do not possess any authentic documents bearing directly on Mary’s post-Pentecostal life. …” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “V”; “The Most Blessed Virgin Mary”; subsection “The Post-pentesoctal Life Of Mary”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

“… Regarding the day, year, and manner of Our Lady’s death, nothing certain is known. …” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

“St. John Damascene St. John of Damascus (P.G., I, 96) thus formulates the tradition of the Church of Jerusalem: St. Juvenal, Bishop of Jerusalem, at the Council of Chalcedon (451), made known to the Emperor Marcian and Pulcheria, who wished to possess the body of the Mother of God, that Mary died in the presence of all the Apostles, but that her tomb, when opened, upon the request of St. Thomas, was found empty; wherefrom the Apostles concluded that the body was taken up to heaven.” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Fact Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

“The feast of the Assumption Regarding the origin of the feast we are also uncertain. It is more probably the anniversary of the dedication of some church than the actual anniversary of Our Lady’s death. That it originated at the time of the Council of Ephesus, or that St. Damasus introduced it in Rome is only a hypothesis. …” [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; “A”; “Assumption Of Mary”; subsection “The Feast Of The Assumption”] - http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02006b.htm

It says “uncertain”, in contrast to your statement of “the church knows for sure”.

New Advent and the Catholic Encyclopedia are not official statements of the Catholic Church. The Catholic Church has issued an infallible proclamation declaring that the Assumption of Mary is an infallible Doctrine. She also declares an anathema upon anyone who denies it. And she speaks with the force of Christ, Almighty.

 

[SetInMotion]

New Advent and the Catholic Encyclopedia are not official statements of the Catholic Church.

The Summa Theologica of Thomas Aquinas has the official Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, and further sanctions. He is considered the ‘holy’ ‘angelic’ ‘doctor’ of the church.

Yes?

 

[SetInMotion]

The Catholic Church has issued an infallible proclamation declaring that the Assumption of Mary is an infallible Doctrine.

Ok, but do you see the difference between issuing a statement of declaration and knowing for certain (as cited in the other sources)?

 

[Justin_Mary]

You don’t see the irony here?

Not sure I follow. Can you elaborate?

You confided to a woman you know. That’s not to say you couldn’t go directly to Jesus, or that you didn’t. You just spoke to another person you thought might be able to help you in some way.

She, the woman you knew, did the same thing, going to a woman she knew she believes can help in some way.

Another thing about my understanding of the whole thing. St James said, “you ask but you don’t receive because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions.”

I know when I ask, no matter how noble I believe my intentions there is a trace of self love. That’s something I need to work on. So I can ask someone else to selflessly ask for me. & that is an example for me to follow. To selflessly work on the behalf of others. & that helps me work on separating myself from self love.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

New Advent and the Catholic Encyclopedia are not official statements of the Catholic Church.

The Summa Theologica of Thomas Aquinas has the official Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur, and further sanctions. He is considered the ‘holy’ ‘angelic’ ‘doctor’ of the church.

Yes?

1. But he is not considered infallible.
2. The Church is infallible and the Church is the vehicle that Jesus Christ put on this earth to Teach all that He commanded.
3. The Church picks the good parts of St. Thomas’ teaching and keeps them and discards the rest.

Where ever St. Thomas contradicts the Church, St. Thomas is wrong.

 

[SetInMotion]

1. But he is not considered infallible.
2. The Church is infallible and the Church is the vehicle that Jesus Christ put on this earth to Teach all that He commanded.
3. The Church picks the good parts of St. Thomas’ teaching and keeps them and discards the rest.

Where ever St. Thomas contradicts the Church, St. Thomas is wrong.

Thomas Aquinas isn’t part of the “church”? So when you say “the Church is infallible” who are you referring to specifically?

Also, did you see my other question in relation to declaring and knowing?

 

[Tommy999]

I think I follow you now. Thanks, Justin_Mary.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

1. But he is not considered infallible.
2. The Church is infallible and the Church is the vehicle that Jesus Christ put on this earth to Teach all that He commanded.
3. The Church picks the good parts of St. Thomas’ teaching and keeps them and discards the rest.

Where ever St. Thomas contradicts the Church, St. Thomas is wrong.

Thomas Aquinas isn’t part of the “church”?

So am I.

So when you say “the Church is infallible” who are you referring to specifically?

The Magisterium. The Pope and Bishops united with him.

Also, did you see my other question in relation to declaring and knowing?

Found it. Disregard the request for a link.

Ok, but do you see the difference between issuing a statement of declaration and knowing for certain (as cited in the other sources)?

All I see is that you don’t understand that the Catholic Church speaks with the force of Jesus Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. In other words, with God’s authority.

 

[SetInMotion]

The Magisterium. The Pope and Bishops united with him.

So, you are saying, “categorically”, that Thomas Aquinas is not part of “the Church” as you just defined and limited the phrase to “The Magisterium. The Pope and Bishops united with him.”

Who then in “the Church”, as you just defined, gave the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur for his Summa, and made him ‘holy’, ‘angelic’ ‘doctor’, etc under the Mariae Immaculatae - Sedi Sapientiae (Seat/Throne of Wisdom]

Here is the link to the other question:

https://forums.catholic-questions.org/t/do-any-protestants-believe-in-the-assumption/562355/84?u=setinmotion

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

The Magisterium. The Pope and Bishops united with him.

So, you are saying, “categorically”, that Thomas Aquinas is not part of “the Church” as you just defined and limited the phrase to “The Magisterium. The Pope and Bishops united with him.”

I am saying that he is not infallible.

Who then in “the Church”, as you just defined, gave the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur and made him ‘holy’, ‘angelic’ ‘doctor’, etc under the Mariae Immaculatae - Sedi Sapientiae (Seat/Throne of Wisdom]

Priests and theologians who know more about Catholic Doctrine than you.

Here is the link to the other question:

I found it and edited my previous response with the answer.

 

[SetInMotion]

All I see is that you don’t understand that the Catholic Church speaks with the force of Jesus Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. In other words, with God’s authority.

That is an erroneous assumption. I understand it just fine, even from the inside, however, my statements are about categories, knowing and declaring, “the Church” and Thomas Aquinas and the Summa.

 

[SetInMotion]

Priests and theologians who know more about Catholic Doctrine than you.

Again, this is an erroneous assumption. I used to specifically work for a (not to be named) ministry, that specializes in the saints, miracles, visions, etc as EWTN called ‘experts in their field.’

 

[GKMotley]

Try googling Extraordinary Magisterium and Ordinary Magisterium.

 

[SetInMotion]

I am saying that he is not infallible.

I am not asking about the man himself. I was speaking about the Nihil Obstat and Imprimaturly accepted (by “the Church”) statements (theology) in the Summa, etc.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

All I see is that you don’t understand that the Catholic Church speaks with the force of Jesus Christ and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. In other words, with God’s authority.

That is an erroneous assumption.

Ephesians 3:10 so that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the principalities and authorities in the heavens.

I understand it just fine,

I can tell by your questions and statements, that you don’t. Your next question is a case in point.

even from the inside, however, my statements are about categories, knowing and declaring, “the Church” and Thomas Aquinas and the Summa.

So? You have questions. We have answered your questions. Your questions do not amount to proof of any kind. Nor do any statements that you make in contradiction to Catholic Teaching.

 

[EvangelistVictor]

I never met any Protestant that even knew about Mary’s assumption. If it’s not in the Bible they reject it.

What I find interesting is that Muslims also believe that Muhammad ascended to heaven like Jesus.

 

[SetInMotion]

Nor do any statements that you make in contradiction to Catholic Teaching.

Sigh. This has been a waste of time. Simply, put, the specific delineations as I am speaking about, have not been understood.

 

[De_Maria]

Rev 12:1 clearly shows that Our Lady was in heaven, bodily.

 

[SetInMotion]

Rev 12:1 clearly shows that Our Lady was in heaven, bodily.

Along with the devil (dragon), at the same time and pregnant still? Have you read Revelation 12, and undertstood what Thomas Aquinas in the Summa, stated about such “dogma” “not” being found in scripture?