Do Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins on earth?

[guanophore]

Oh I see its time to go with the “Your not a minister because…” instead of answering the question.

I thought you were comparing your role with that of a person ordained in the Apostolic Succession?

You're right I'm not a priest, I left the siminary years ago.

Why did you do that? I hope it wasn’t the spelling police!

But reguardless what you say I am a minister ordianed by a Bishop and had hands laid on me.

These types of “so called” bishops and ordinations were not considered valid by the Early Church. Why should that change today?

That being said back to the question, were the men who brought the paralized man priests?

They were certainly conducting their duty as part of the priesthood of all believers!

Jesus’ priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek. He is the Great High Priest, and we who are baptized into Him become a priestly people. Some of the priestly people are called to minister to the flock, that is the ministerial priesthood.

 

[Zenas]

The disciples: where they the 11 disciples Jesus’ closest one’s or the many who were disciples of Jesus. It don’t say. What is a disciple? A student. And Jesus had many disciples.other then the 12.

No it doesn’t say exactly but when you read the whole chapter, it leaves one with the distinct (name removed by moderator)ression that these men were only His chosen 12 (11 without Judas and of course that being 10 without Thomas). The attention given to Thomas later in the chapter bears this out.

Now if you sin against me do I not have the power to forgive you for sinning against me and do I not have the power not to forgive you for sinning against me?

Sorry but you’re really trying hard to make this verse say what it does not say. Given your interpretation, this verse has no significance at all and I must say you are the first I have ever seen who treats it with such banality. The typical Protestant/Evangelical interpretation of this verse is that the apostles were given the power to proclaim the gospel and to announce that all who received the gospel were forgiven while all who did not were not foregiven.

This verse is very significant to me because I remember reading it about 15 years ago and sort of dropping my mouth open. I had never paid much attention to Catholic teachings, except to recognize they were not entirely supported by scripture. Then I read this verse and exclaimed to myself, “They actually do have the power to forgive sins!” It was definitely a watershed event in my life.

It sometimes takes the faith of others to bring us to Christ. It wasn’t the men who forgave the sin but Jesus. It was their faith the brought the man to Christ. So I ask you what Jesus asked, "Which is easier to say, your sins are forgiven or to say get up and walk? Why did Jesus ask this question?

I think you missed the point Matthew was trying to make here.* “But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.” * The crowd was awestruck that Jesus, a man, had the power to forgive sins. However, Matthew wrote this after the resurrection and after he had himself been gifted with the power of absolution. That is why Matthew used the plural “men” here, because God gave this authority–to remit sins or retain sins–to men. The crowds saw only one man with the power to forgive sins but when Matthew wrote about it he knew it was a gift of the Holy Spirit given to men appointed by God.

Kevin, I have read ahead in this thread and see where you say you attended seminary. What seminary did you attend?

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Jesus sent His apostles to forgive sins and retain sin of men.

John 20:21
14 (Jesus) said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.”
22
15 And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, **“Receive the holy Spirit.
23
16 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained.” **

Matthew 28:18
11 Then Jesus approached and said to them, **“All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. **19
Go, therefore, 12 and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
20
teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. 13 And behold, **I am with you always, until the end of the age.” **

Jesus possessing all power in heaven and on earth operates through his Church only.
Ephesians 1:20
which he worked in Christ, raising him from the dead and seating him at his right hand in the heavens,
21
far above every principality, authority, power, and dominion, and every name that is named not only in this age but also in the one to come.
22
And he put all things beneath his feet and gave him as head over all things to the church,
23
which is his body, 11 the fullness of the one who fills all things in every way.

Paul is speaking as an ambassador for Christ, “as if God were appealing through us” (Paul) in regards to the ministry of reconciliation which was entrusted to them (apostles) not the Corinthians faithful. This scripture clearly identifies the Apostles as being reconciled to Christ himself who gave them (not everybody) the ministry of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:18
12 And **all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation, **19 namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
20
So we are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through us.

**If we can grasp an Apostolic biblical understanding of who and what the Church is, and where are the (“unbroken” succession) successors of Peter, Paul and the Apostles who laid hands on Bishops, presbyters and deacons to today? then we can find this ministry of reconciliation who have been given the power (to men) to “forgive sins and or retain sins”.

(Can a lay person retain a sin of another without being “judged for not forgiving others, God will not forgive you”, placing the lay person who thinks he/she can FORGIVE OR RETAIN sin falls into this mortal sin?) I believe only one consecrated to Christ in Holy Orders from the laying of Hands from the Apostolic (unbroken) succession in the Popes, bishops, Priests can forgive or retain a mans sin.

This biblical ministry never defines a laymen confessing or forgiving another layman’s sins, in fact this is unheard of from the Old covenant when one went to the temple priests to offer atonement for sins with a animal sacrifice which included an “Oral confession heard”.

God has not changed, man has who rejects his New Covenant in the new High Priesthood of Jesus Christ who “as head over all things TO THE CHURCH”.

Peace be with you**

 

[rev_kevin]

Ok. Just for the sake of discussion, lets say it was “a whole herd of disciples”. Can you explain how it is that the Apostles misunderstood Him, and that He was too weak or disinterested to correct them for 1500 years?

Why did they equate the authority to act in the person of Christ with ordination (the laying on of hands)?

God does things in his own time, not our’s.
Why did it take God so long to whipe out humanity from the time of Adam and Eve to Moses? If you look at Genesis 5 from the time of Adam to Moses it is well over 1500 years.

I don’t know but I don’t think Christ said that.

 

[rev_kevin]

Did that bishop have hands laid on him by a bishop who had valid orders?

Remember that the authority to forgive sins comes from Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

[BIBLEDRB]John 20:23[/BIBLEDRB]

If the person who ordained you didn’t have these gifts to give you, then… you don’t have them. I’m sorry. I don’t have them either, because they are not (yet?) proper to my station in life.

You would have to ask the Bishop that.

Right, we all have the authority to forgive sin is one sins against us.

Where does Christ say that one has to have these gifts you are talking abuot?

No I’m not going to discuss my.ordination any more. This thread is not about Rev. Kev and his being ordained. If you don’t want to accept me being ordained then so be it.

 

[rev_kevin]

No it doesn’t say exactly but when you read the whole chapter, it leaves one with the distinct (name removed by moderator)ression that these men were only His chosen 12 (11 without Judas and of course that being 10 without Thomas). The attention given to Thomas later in the chapter bears this out. Sorry but you’re really trying hard to make this verse say what it does not say. Given your interpretation, this verse has no significance at all and I must say you are the first I have ever seen who treats it with such banality. The typical Protestant/Evangelical interpretation of this verse is that the apostles were given the power to proclaim the gospel and to announce that all who received the gospel were forgiven while all who did not were not foregiven.

This verse is very significant to me because I remember reading it about 15 years ago and sort of dropping my mouth open. I had never paid much attention to Catholic teachings, except to recognize they were not entirely supported by scripture. Then I read this verse and exclaimed to myself, “They actually do have the power to forgive sins!” It was definitely a watershed event in my life.I think you missed the point Matthew was trying to make here.* “But when the crowds saw this, they were awestruck, and glorified God, who had given such authority to men.” * The crowd was awestruck that Jesus, a man, had the power to forgive sins. However, Matthew wrote this after the resurrection and after he had himself been gifted with the power of absolution. That is why Matthew used the plural “men” here, because God gave this authority–to remit sins or retain sins–to men. The crowds saw only one man with the power to forgive sins but when Matthew wrote about it he knew it was a gift of the Holy Spirit given to men appointed by God.

Kevin, I have read ahead in this thread and see where you say you attended seminary. What seminary did you attend?

Yes I’ sure the 11 or 10 were present but thats not to say there weren’t more present also. The Bible is not clear on this.

So you’re saying that the men had the authority for forgive sin even though they were not ordained (priests) and had hands laid on them?
If they were appointed by God without being ordained and hands laid on them then it would stand to reason that one does not need it to forgive sin.
Matthew used the plural “men” here because there were more than one man.
There is only one man (Jesus) who can truely forgive sin.

I don’t recall the name of the siminary, its been over 30 years since I have been there but it was a Catholic siminary in Indiana.

 

[rev_kevin]

Yes, true they confess…but after they have been caught, or presented with evidence as to their crime or crimes…

The point I was trying to make was will they do it voluntarily, out of the goodness of their hearts? Some, maybe…but a good majority will not…so how will the majority be reconciled with God?

If they confess their wrong doings to God and ask him for forgiveness.

 

[rev_kevin]

I thought you were comparing your role with that of a person ordained in the Apostolic Succession? No the point I was getting at was this thread is not about me.

Why did you do that? I hope it wasn’t the spelling police!
Ha Ha Ha very funny. No it was because after some time there I realized that some of what was being taught made no sence, ie, the emaculate conception, Mary being ever virgin and so on.

These types of “so called” bishops and ordinations were not considered valid by the Early Church. Why should that change today?
Why does anything change. Change happens all the time.

They were certainly conducting their duty as part of the priesthood of all believers!
Where is the evidence of this? Where does it say they were conducting their duty as part of the priesthood of all believers? Does one have to be in the priesthood inorder to have faith like these men did?

Jesus’ priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek. He is the Great High Priest, and we who are baptized into Him become a priestly people. Some of the priestly people are called to minister to the flock, that is the ministerial priesthood.

Well I have been baptized into him have you?

 

[ignatius777]

This off topic discussion was taken from a thread that is now closed.

Did you think this was different from what Catholics believe?

Do you mean you think there is a different Latin root word for “priest” than “presbyter”?

You may be thinking of “sacredote”? This would be the Latin equivalent for the OT priest,the hierus.

The NT reveals what was forshadowed in the Old. there is a High Priest, a ministerial priesthood, and the priesthood of all believers.

Well, this would be one foundation of the problem. There is only one priesthood in the NT, not “3 priests”. This One Priesthood is that of Christ, after the order of Melchizedek. All the rest of us, the priestly people, and the ministerial priests, are caught up and contained in the One.

I think that Hebrews makes plenty of references to the OT shadow, as well as the NT fulfillment. The priesthood after the order of Melchizedek is, indeed, a different kind of priesthood. It is not caste, lineage, or race based, and it is eternal.

There are many people who had this expereince. However, have you ever considered that your personal experience may not be the best plumbline for Truth?

Such a perspective is inconsistent with the Scriptures and the faith of the early Church.

The correct answer is “yes” catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins as bestowed upon them by Jesus

 

[pablope]

If they confess their wrong doings to God and ask him for forgiveness.

Follow up question:

After their confession directly to God (which I presume is what you’re saying), how will a person confesssing know he has been forgiven by God, aside from a subjective emotion of being or feeling of being forgiven? And what penance is he going to do? How will one know fo sure, without a shadow of a doubt?

And what a about a repeat offender…will God continously forgive one who keeps on doing the same thing over and over…will this then not amount to “vain repetition”?

How will the offender expiate his sins? Who will counsel the offender about the path to follow?

 

[hxcCatholic413]

“Man I’m sorry I stoled from you.” You can A.) forgive him or B,) not forgive him. The power is your’s

The difference is this: by going to your friend and confessing to sleeping with his wife he can either forgive you or not forgive you, BUT confessing to a priest(Catholic or Orthodox) is the ultimate because God is forgiving you and not merely another man.
-John 20:22-23 - [22] When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost. [23] Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
Explanation:
-John 20:22 - the Lord “breathes” on the apostles, and then gives them the power to forgive and retain sins. The only other moment in Scripture where God breathes on man is in Gen. 2:7, when the Lord “breathes” divine life into man. When this happens, a significant transformation takes place.
-John 20:23 - Jesus says, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.
www.scripturecatholic.com

 

[po18guy]

As many ways as you want to give it.
James 5:15-16 says,“And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven. Therefore confess your sins to each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.” Here I see that we should confess our sins to each other what I don’t see is the words to a priest..

But, are you doing the “bible” thing of reading verses in a vacuum? Isn’t scripture a seamless garment? Thus, James must be viewed in the context of Jesus’ bestowal upon the Apostles of the power to retain or forgive sin. Jesus also told the twelve that “whatever” they hold bound on earth is bound in heaven. They bound the power to forgive sin to their successors. The line remains unbroken, whether you personally agree with it or not. This is something to be joyful about.

Please think about this: If I murder a stranger and confess to you, what purpose does that serve? None, since you have no authority over that sin. So that clearly is not the context of James’ teaching. For confession to have any value whatsoever, it must be made to someone with authority over that sin. You cannot ignore, by simple disagreement, a 1,977 year practice that is not strictly Catholic.

 

[po18guy]

Maybe I do and maybe I don’t. You really don’t know.
Does not the Bible say that God is the only one who can forgive sin?

Is your god too weak or impotent to take flesh? Is he too weak or impotent to give authority over sin to his chosen? If so, you are right.

 

[rev_kevin]

Is your god too weak or impotent to take flesh? Is he too weak or impotent to give authority over sin to his chosen? If so, you are right.

You are insinuating that I have a different God then the one you have. My God is the same God you have, you know the one who is for all people, the righteous and the sinners alike. Just because I don’t believe the same things you do, don’t mean I have a different God then the one you have. Why must you resort to this kind of talk? I have not said anything near what you have said here. I have not said that you’re God is too weak or impotent. Why because I have more respect then to say something like that to another person even if we disagree. It shows that you have no respect for others and being we have the same God it shows no respect for God.

 

[Newbie2]

You are insinuating that I have a different God then the one you have. My God is the same God you have, you know the one who is for all people, the righteous and the sinners alike. Just because I don’t believe the same things you do, don’t mean I have a different God then the one you have. Why must you resort to this kind of talk? I have not said anything near what you have said here. I have not said that you’re God is too weak or impotent. Why because I have more respect then to say something like that to another person even if we disagree.** It shows that you have no respect for others and being we have the same God it shows no respect for God**.

Well, I wouldn’t go that far…

In any case, we need to remember that Rev. Kevin has a much different POV on interpretation of scripture than most of us…sometimes it’s a very “interesting” interpretation.

Since it was brought up, I do find it curious that you don’t know the name of the seminary where you attended. I would think it somewhat of a major change to be in seminary then have serious doubts and abandon the Catholic faith…major enough that one would at least remember where one was studying to become a priest!

Anyway, I recall Rev. K in a similar thread about this subject a while ago, and I’ll give him credit in this one for not playing thick in understanding the Catholic POV on forgiveness of sin like in the last one, even if he disagrees.

 

[rev_kevin]

But, are you doing the “bible” thing of reading verses in a vacuum? Isn’t scripture a seamless garment? Thus, James must be viewed in the context of Jesus’ bestowal upon the Apostles of the power to retain or forgive sin. Jesus also told the twelve that “whatever” they hold bound on earth is bound in heaven. They bound the power to forgive sin to their successors. The line remains unbroken, whether you personally agree with it or not. This is something to be joyful about.

Please think about this: If I murder a stranger and confess to you, what purpose does that serve? None, since you have no authority over that sin. So that clearly is not the context of James’ teaching. For confession to have any value whatsoever, it must be made to someone with authority over that sin. You cannot ignore, by simple disagreement, a 1,977 year practice that is not strictly Catholic.

If a person confesses that he mudered someone to me, being a minister I am bound to cofidentiality. There is only one mediator between us and God and that is Jesus.

 

[rev_kevin]

Well, I wouldn’t go that far…

In any case, we need to remember that Rev. Kevin has a much different POV on interpretation of scripture than most of us…sometimes it’s a very “interesting” interpretation.

Since it was brought up, I do find it curious that you don’t know the name of the seminary where you attended. I would think it somewhat of a major change to be in seminary then have serious doubts and abandon the Catholic faith…major enough that one would at least remember where one was studying to become a priest!

Anyway, I recall Rev. K in a similar thread about this subject a while ago, and I’ll give him credit in this one for not playing thick in understanding the Catholic POV on forgiveness of sin like in the last one, even if he disagrees.

Sorry my memory is not what it used to be. I have parkinsons and along with it comes some long turm memory loss. I can’t even remember much of my childhood.

 

[Newbie2]

If a person confesses that he mudered someone to me, being a minister I am bound to cofidentiality. There is only one mediator between us and God and that is Jesus.

So why would anyone confess a sin to you? Relieve their guilt? “Get it off their chest”?

Just curious.

 

[Newbie2]

Sorry my memory is not what it used to be. I have parkinsons and along with it comes some long turm memory loss. I can’t even remember much of my childhood.

M’kay. Sorry to hear that.

 

[rinnie]

To the original question at hand. Do Catholic Priest have the authorityto forgive our sins.

Well if you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and was given authority by his Father to forgive sins, then you have to believe that the authority given to him could be passed down as he said and given to Man.

He said what you bound if bound and what you loose is loose. So you either believe the scripture as the word of God or you don’t I guess.