Do Catholics and Orthodox already share Eucharistic communion?

[ConstantineTG]

Here is one thing you have to understand, anx it’s something i have come to understand after years in the Orthodox church. A big bulk of being Orthodox = being anti-Catholic. They cannot teach their faith without anti-Catholic indoctrination.

Seriously? Have you listened to an Orthodox priest?

I am following some blogs of Orthodox priests and not one have ever taught the Eastern praxis by shooting down Catholics. I wouldn’t have followed them if they did. But I get genuine Eastern teaching without Catholic bashing. I’m not going to say there are no Catholic bashers out there, there are many Catholic priests who are Orthodox bashers as well. But they can certainly teach without anti-Catholic polemics because like us, they are bearers of Christ’s truth.

 

[AveChriste11]

Well, I was not the one who brought up the idea that Catholics are insulting Orthodox. As you know, Catholics respectfully recognise the Orthodox Mysteries.
As far as union between EO and OO, of course, I hope it goes well. However, I thought that this thread was about union or intercommunion between EO and RC?

I was simply using that to make an illustration about… “she said this, can you believe what he said” simply serves no purpose in coming together towards unity. All it does it cause quarreling amongst those who should be acting in Christian charity towards each other. Now I will simply wait for this thread to get back on topic before I respond again…

 

[OrthodoxJosh]

Actually the answer would be “NO”! The Roman catholics and Orthodox do NOT share eucharistic communion. Since the schism of 1054 there has been no communion between the Church and the Roman church. Although since Patriarch Athenagoras in the 1960’s since the lifting of the Anathemas the church of Constantinople has been making steps towards this Eucharistic Unity, the tradtionally minded Orthodox stand firmly against it. We will not accept any Unity imposed from above. It must come from the people. So, unil the Pope accepts his role as First among equals (not Universal Jurisdiction) and the Filioque is removed from the Latin church’s creed and other diverse heresies are renounced we can not accept the Pope as Patriarch of Rome and of the West, and reunite himself and his flock to the Church of the Fathers. This is all that stands in the way of us becoming one. Remember as we say in the Creed “I believe in ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC (UNIVERSAL) CHURCH”. So there is only one Church, and the Pope and all Latin Catholics I pray will oneday unite themselves to the ONE CHURCH of CHRIST!

The Sinner,
Josh

“Orthodoxia y Thanatos!!!”

 

[ConstantineTG]

Actually the answer would be “NO”! The Roman catholics and Orthodox do NOT share eucharistic communion. Since the schism of 1054 there has been no communion between the Church and the Roman church. Although since Patriarch Athenagoras in the 1960’s since the lifting of the Anathemas the church of Constantinople has been making steps towards this Eucharistic Unity, the tradtionally minded Orthodox stand firmly against it. We will not accept any Unity imposed from above. It must come from the people. So, unil the Pope accepts his role as First among equals (not Universal Jurisdiction) and the Filioque is removed from the Latin church’s creed and other diverse heresies are renounced we can not accept the Pope as Patriarch of Rome and of the West, and reunite himself and his flock to the Church of the Fathers. This is all that stands in the way of us becoming one. Remember as we say in the Creed “I believe in ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC (UNIVERSAL) CHURCH”. So there is only one Church, and the Pope and all Latin Catholics I pray will oneday unite themselves to the ONE CHURCH of CHRIST!

The Sinner,
Josh

“Orthodoxia y Thanatos!!!”

Well, the Assyrian Church of the East and the Chaldean Catholic Church already has inter-Communion.

 

[OrthodoxJosh]

They are also are Non-Chalcedonians. They deny the two Natures of Christ. That would be like calling Arians Christians, and we certainly would not do that. Please don’t confuse Non-Chalcedonians with Orthodox. Also, any Orthodox Church who considers them as such, according the to Fathers, has fallen away from the Church and is himself a heretic.

The Sinner,
Josh

Orthodoxia y Thanatos

 

[ConstantineTG]

They are also are Non-Chalcedonians. They deny the two Natures of Christ. That would be like calling Arians Christians, and we certainly would not do that. Please don’t confuse Non-Chalcedonians with Orthodox. Also, any Orthodox Church who considers them as such, according the to Fathers, has fallen away from the Church and is himself a heretic.

The Sinner,
Josh

Orthodoxia y Thanatos

One condition before the inter-Communion was an agreement on Christology. We are pretty sure that they accept and teach what the Catholic Church teaches.

I’m not confusing them. I’m just saying that between the Catholic Church and the various other true Apostolic Churches, there is in fact an inter-Communion going on as we type.

 

[cierob]

Actually the answer would be “NO”! The Roman catholics and Orthodox do NOT share eucharistic communion. Since the schism of 1054 there has been no communion between the Church and the Roman church. Although since Patriarch Athenagoras in the 1960’s since the lifting of the Anathemas the church of Constantinople has been making steps towards this Eucharistic Unity, the tradtionally minded Orthodox stand firmly against it. We will not accept any Unity imposed from above. It must come from the people. So, unil the Pope accepts his role as First among equals (not Universal Jurisdiction) and the Filioque is removed from the Latin church’s creed and other diverse heresies are renounced we can not accept the Pope as Patriarch of Rome and of the West, and reunite himself and his flock to the Church of the Fathers. This is all that stands in the way of us becoming one. Remember as we say in the Creed “I believe in ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC (UNIVERSAL) CHURCH”. So there is only one Church, and the Pope and all Latin Catholics I pray will oneday unite themselves to the ONE CHURCH of CHRIST!

The Sinner,
Josh

“Orthodoxia y Thanatos!!!”

Better study up on your history guy! There has been intercommunion between many of the Orthodox churches and Rome well into the 18th cent. The 2 most known places are Ukrain and many of the Greek Islands where there was a Catholic presance. Roman Catholic priests were often brought in to hear confessions and to preach in Orthodox churches…Orthodox priests would take part in Roman Corpus Christie processions. So to say there has been no intercommunion since 1054 is a very large stretch. Break down of communion was a gradual process, not something that just happened in 1054.

 

[Cavaradossi]

They are also are Non-Chalcedonians. They deny the two Natures of Christ. That would be like calling Arians Christians, and we certainly would not do that. Please don’t confuse Non-Chalcedonians with Orthodox. Also, any Orthodox Church who considers them as such, according the to Fathers, has fallen away from the Church and is himself a heretic.

The Sinner,
Josh

Orthodoxia y Thanatos

I have a hard time believing that the Oriental Orthodox are heretics. Both sides can accept that Christ is perfectly human and perfectly divine without confusion, division, change our separation. The disagreement over whether Christ is in two natures or of two natures is really of less importance.

 

[Cavaradossi]

They are also are Non-Chalcedonians. They deny the two Natures of Christ. That would be like calling Arians Christians, and we certainly would not do that. Please don’t confuse Non-Chalcedonians with Orthodox. Also, any Orthodox Church who considers them as such, according the to Fathers, has fallen away from the Church and is himself a heretic.

The Sinner,
Josh

Orthodoxia y Thanatos

I have a hard time believing that the Oriental Orthodox are heretics. Both sides can accept that Christ is perfectly human and perfectly divine without confusion, division, change or separation. The disagreement over whether Christ is in two natures or of two natures is really of less importance.

 

[twf]

Better study up on your history guy! There has been intercommunion between many of the Orthodox churches and Rome well into the 18th cent. The 2 most known places are Ukrain and many of the Greek Islands where there was a Catholic presance. Roman Catholic priests were often brought in to hear confessions and to preach in Orthodox churches…Orthodox priests would take part in Roman Corpus Christie processions. So to say there has been no intercommunion since 1054 is a very large stretch. Break down of communion was a gradual process, not something that just happened in 1054.

Not to mention the very real (though limited) inter-communion “on the ground” in the Middle East between the Melkite Greek Catholics and Greek Orthodox of Antioch…

 

[OrthodoxJosh]

TWF…You bring up a good point. Remember John Bekkos who was patriarch of Constantinople when the Orthodox of his time (Save St. Mark Evgenikos) returned to communion with rome. He may have been the Patriarch, but he fell from the teachings and tradtitions of the Eastern Fathers and therefore lost his orthodoxy. Antioch is no longer considered Orthodox by the traditionalist Orthodox. In fact, any local eastern patriarch who has agreed to the WCC’s statement and belief in the “branch theory” has left Orthodoxy in favor of world orthodoxy. Not the Orthodoxy of Heaven. Titles mean nothing, an Orthodox confession of faith means everything. Why do you think the Holy Athonite Fathers stopped commemorating Patriarch Athenagoras when he met with the Pope and lifted the anathemas? And then later the Athonite Fathers (you should know that Mount Athos is the heart of Orthodoxy) stopped commemorating Patriarch Bartholomew until he. along with the Greek Government began persecuting them. They were denied food and medical supplies, and some were even arrested because they held firm to the belief that until heretics denounce their heresy they cannot be part of the Church. Even to this day the ancient Monastery of Esphigmenou on Mount Athos refuses to commemorate the Ecumenical Patriarch because of his memebership with the WCC, and his role in ecumenism, and they are persecuted to the point that pilgrims are not allowed to visit the monastery by the Greek Government, they are still not allowed to recieve donations of money, food or medical supplies. All because they hold to the Tradtions of the Orthodox Church. To be called Orthodox and to be Orthodox (in the sense that the Holy Fathers like St. Gregory Palamas and St. Mark Evgenikos and countless other Saints taught) are two different things. Salvation by administration is a heresy in itself. I pray for the day of unity, but that unity must not be at the cost of Truth. I didn’t mean to start an argument, or hurt feelings. I was simply stating that the main-stream “orthodox” have left Orthodoxy. Constantinople and Antioch were just the first in a long line.

The Sinner,
Josh

Orthodoxy or Death (for me, at least)

 

[Julia_Mae]

I just found this when I posted in another thread, I thought it was quite good.

orthodoxinfo.com/general/greatschism.aspx

 

[ConstantineTG]

I just found this when I posted in another thread, I thought it was quite good.

orthodoxinfo.com/general/greatschism.aspx

I thought it was established that orthodoxinfo.com is Old Calendarist, and therefore not part of the true Eastern Orthodox Church? Its like taking statements from the SSPX or Roman Catholic Women Priests and say that is the stand of the Catholic Church.

 

[OrthoxICWR]

TWF…You bring up a good point. Remember John Bekkos who was patriarch of Constantinople when the Orthodox of his time (Save St. Mark Evgenikos) returned to communion with rome. He may have been the Patriarch, but he fell from the teachings and tradtitions of the Eastern Fathers and therefore lost his orthodoxy. Antioch is no longer considered Orthodox by the traditionalist Orthodox. In fact, any local eastern patriarch who has agreed to the WCC’s statement and belief in the “branch theory” has left Orthodoxy in favor of world orthodoxy. Not the Orthodoxy of Heaven. Titles mean nothing, an Orthodox confession of faith means everything. Why do you think the Holy Athonite Fathers stopped commemorating Patriarch Athenagoras when he met with the Pope and lifted the anathemas? And then later the Athonite Fathers (you should know that Mount Athos is the heart of Orthodoxy) stopped commemorating Patriarch Bartholomew until he. along with the Greek Government began persecuting them. They were denied food and medical supplies, and some were even arrested because they held firm to the belief that until heretics denounce their heresy they cannot be part of the Church. Even to this day the ancient Monasteryof Esphigmenou on Mount Athos refuses to commemorate the Ecumenical Patriarch because of his memebership with the WCC, and his role in ecumenism, and they are persecuted to the point that pilgrims are not allowed to visit the monastery by the Greek Government, they are still not allowed to recieve donations of money, food or medical supplies. All because they hold to the Tradtions of the Orthodox Church. To be called Orthodox and to be Orthodox (in the sense that the Holy Fathers like St. Gregory Palamas and St. Mark Evgenikos and countless other Saints taught) are two different things. Salvation by administration is a heresy in itself. I pray for the day of unity, but that of Esphigmenou on Mount Athos unity must not be at the cost of Truth. I didn’t mean to start an argument, or hurt feelings. I was simply stating that the main-stream “orthodox” have left Orthodoxy. Constantinople and Antioch were just the first in a long line.

The Sinner,
Josh

Orthodoxy or Death (for me, at least)

Anyone who cuts himself off from the church is nothing more then a Protestant…whether we are talking about the Old Calendarist Orthodox or the SSPX. As holy as the monks of Esphigmenou on Mount Athos may be and no matter how faithful they are to tradition they have cut themselves off from the church. Nothing more then Baptists or Lutherans.

 

[OrthodoxJosh]

Anyone who cuts himself off from the church is nothing more then a Protestant…whether we are talking about the Old Calendarist Orthodox or the SSPX. As holy as the monks of Esphigmenou on Mount Athos may be and no matter how faithful they are to tradition they have cut themselves off from the church. Nothing more then Baptists or Lutherans.

Again, it seems to me that you are confusing the administration of the Church with the Chuch (Body of Christ). This is foreign to Orthodox Ecclesiology. In fact, one of the cannons of the early Church was that if a Bishop preached any heresy openly “with bared head” then the people we to stop commemorating him as a Bishop until a Synod could be convened to decide what to do with him. Old Calendarist Orthodox are only called so because they refuse to use the Gregorian Calendar which was never used by any Orthodox until the 20th century. And I do have to laugh at little at you calling us Old Calendarists Protestants when Protestants have more in common with the RC than they do with the Orthodox. Had the RC not fallen away from the Church of Christ in the first place we wouldn’t have protestants at all. It is said the the RC and the Protestants are just two sides of the same coin. St. Paul admonished us to hold fast to tradition, either written in epistles or passed on orally. If traditions don’t matter then what is the point in seeing your Pontiff as the sucessor of Peter. Did you not know what Peter was first Bishop of Antioch? Christ and His Apostles gave us these traditions, not modern Bishops. Beware of berating the Holy Fathers of Esphigmenou, the Mother of God Herself protects them. Pray for unity, but pray that it comes from Christ Himself, and not from man who is so easily led by his own pride. Peace and love to you!

The Sinner,
Josh
Most Holy Mother of God save us!

 

[OrthoxICWR]

Again, it seems to me that you are confusing the administration of the Church with the Chuch (Body of Christ). This is foreign to Orthodox Ecclesiology. In fact, one of the cannons of the early Church was that if a Bishop preached any heresy openly “with bared head” then the people we to stop commemorating him as a Bishop until a Synod could be convened to decide what to do with him. Old Calendarist Orthodox are only called so because they refuse to use the Gregorian Calendar which was never used by any Orthodox until the 20th century. And I do have to laugh at little at you calling us Old Calendarists Protestants when Protestants have more in common with the RC than they do with the Orthodox. Had the RC not fallen away from the Church of Christ in the first place we wouldn’t have protestants at all. It is said the the RC and the Protestants are just two sides of the same coin. St. Paul admonished us to hold fast to tradition, either written in epistles or passed on orally. If traditions don’t matter then what is the point in seeing your Pontiff as the sucessor of Peter. Did you not know what Peter was first Bishop of Antioch? Christ and His Apostles gave us these traditions, not modern Bishops. Beware of berating the Holy Fathers of Esphigmenou, the Mother of God Herself protects them. Pray for unity, but pray that it comes from Christ Himself, and not from man who is so easily led by his own pride. Peace and love to you!

The Sinner,
Josh
Most Holy Mother of God save us!

So you want me to buy that Old Calendarists are the real Orthodox and connonical Orthodoxy is in not? I didn’t fall off the turnip wagon yesterday you know.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Again, it seems to me that you are confusing the administration of the Church with the Chuch (Body of Christ). This is foreign to Orthodox Ecclesiology. In fact, one of the cannons of the early Church was that if a Bishop preached any heresy openly “with bared head” then the people we to stop commemorating him as a Bishop until a Synod could be convened to decide what to do with him. Old Calendarist Orthodox are only called so because they refuse to use the Gregorian Calendar which was never used by any Orthodox until the 20th century. And I do have to laugh at little at you calling us Old Calendarists Protestants when Protestants have more in common with the RC than they do with the Orthodox. Had the RC not fallen away from the Church of Christ in the first place we wouldn’t have protestants at all. It is said the the RC and the Protestants are just two sides of the same coin. St. Paul admonished us to hold fast to tradition, either written in epistles or passed on orally. If traditions don’t matter then what is the point in seeing your Pontiff as the sucessor of Peter. Did you not know what Peter was first Bishop of Antioch? Christ and His Apostles gave us these traditions, not modern Bishops. Beware of berating the Holy Fathers of Esphigmenou, the Mother of God Herself protects them. Pray for unity, but pray that it comes from Christ Himself, and not from man who is so easily led by his own pride. Peace and love to you!

The Sinner,
Josh
Most Holy Mother of God save us!

Why blame Protestantism on the Catholics? Its not like there aren’t any breakaway Orthodox groups. Ukraine alone has 3 Orthodox Churches, only one of which is in communion with the other Orthodox. But that’s not stopping the other two from claiming Orthodoxy.

 

[hazcompat]

Come Holy Spirit Come

peace

 

[OrthodoxJosh]

So you want me to buy that Old Calendarists are the real Orthodox and connonical Orthodoxy is in not? I didn’t fall off the turnip wagon yesterday you know.

Study your Orthodox History, and you will be greatly surprised!

 

[OrthoxICWR]

Study your Orthodox History, and you will be greatly surprised!

Yeah right! LOL!