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NotWorthy
Guest
Did you notice that “our sinning ways” IS NOT included in this. You see, we can simply separate ourselves from the love of God.
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NotWorthy
Guest
So what happens when the church disagrees on an interpretation? What do you tell those who think “born of water” has nothing to do with amniotic fluid?
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BereanRuss
Guest
How did the Jews receive if the words of Jesus when the established religious leaders were against Him?
Therefore there was a division again among the Jews because of these sayings. And many of them said, “He has a demon and is mad. Why do you listen to Him?” Others said, “These are not the words of one who has a demon. Can a demon open the eyes of the blind?”
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NotWorthy
Guest
I’d like to join PRmerger in the “I have no clue what you are talking about” club.
Jesus says “those sins you forgive, they are forgiven”.
Then he continues, “those sins you retain, they are retained”.
ALL the early Church taught that this is the authority to forgive an individual’s sins.
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BereanRuss
Guest
You cannot be “born of water” by sprinkling. Water does not bring dead things to life. Water helps living things to thrive but it cannot produce life. You cannot be born of sprinkling.
You can be born again by the word of God and the word of God is referred to as “water” in the Bible:
…having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever… [1 Pet 1:23]
…that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word… [Eph 5:26]
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joe370
Guest
**
Must of missed it; this thread is really flying…
Incorrect…! He told His apostles to do one thing in remembrance, and one thing only…
"Jesus took bread and spoke a prayer of thanksgiving. He broke the bread, gave it to them, and said, “This is my body, which is given up for you. Do this to remember me.” Luke
What were His apostles to do to remember Him???
“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body.’ And He took the cup, and gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, 'Drink ye all of it; for this is My blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Matthew
Note: All the four gospels give the same account, and in Luke 22.19, Jesus said, “This do in remembrance of me.”
Also, the apostle Paul wrote to the church at Corinth concerning the Lord’s Supper, when he heard they were partaking of it improperly. (1 Corinthians 11.20-34.) In verse 23 it reads:
“For I have received from the Lord, that which I also delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus Christ the same night in which He was betrayed, took bread, and when He had given thanks, He brake it and said, 'Take, eat; this is My body which was broken for you. This do in remembrance of Me.”
Now, what are His established church ambassadors to do in remembrance of Him??? To what is “this” referring?
I answered your question (priesthood / presbyter) already.**
Must of missed it; this thread is really flying…
Incorrect…! He told His apostles to do one thing in remembrance, and one thing only…
"Jesus took bread and spoke a prayer of thanksgiving. He broke the bread, gave it to them, and said, “This is my body, which is given up for you. Do this to remember me.” Luke
What were His apostles to do to remember Him???
“And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed it, and brake it, and gave it to the disciples, and said, ‘Take, eat; this is My body.’ And He took the cup, and gave thanks and gave it to them, saying, 'Drink ye all of it; for this is My blood of the New Testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.” Matthew
Note: All the four gospels give the same account, and in Luke 22.19, Jesus said, “This do in remembrance of me.”
Also, the apostle Paul wrote to the church at Corinth concerning the Lord’s Supper, when he heard they were partaking of it improperly. (1 Corinthians 11.20-34.) In verse 23 it reads:
“For I have received from the Lord, that which I also delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus Christ the same night in which He was betrayed, took bread, and when He had given thanks, He brake it and said, 'Take, eat; this is My body which was broken for you. This do in remembrance of Me.”
Now, what are His established church ambassadors to do in remembrance of Him??? To what is “this” referring?
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BereanRuss
Guest
Agreed. This authority is for all whom Jesus has breathed upon and filled with His Spirit.
In Him you also [trusted], after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise… [Eph 1:13]
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NotWorthy
Guest
So, who is right, dear BR, when good and holy Evangelicals tell you that the Holy Spirit has helped them to interpret this to mean Baptism. There seems to be a majority of Protestant Faiths that disagree with your reasoning. These faiths feel that this is a huge essential.
Who’s right?
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NotWorthy
Guest
So you and I have the authority to retain sins?!?
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BereanRuss
Guest
Agreed. What is your point? That there must be a priest? He did not say that.
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BereanRuss
Guest
Absolutely. When the Gospel is received by a person we have the authority to proclaim that there sins are forgiven. When a person reject the Gospel, we are not wrong to tell them that there sin remains.
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BereanRuss
Guest
All major protestant church believe in Baptism.
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joe370
Guest
**
In the synoptic gospels, Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In these accounts, John preaches repentance before the coming judgment, baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and the imminent arrival of one far greater than him. Jesus came to the Jordan River and was baptized with water, there by John…WHY? After the baptism, the heavens open, the holy spirit like a dove descends, and a heavenly voice acclaims Jesus is his Son.
Jesus clearly illustrated by example that baptism, an outward sign of inward grace, by water was/is essential, only in His case, the H.S. was seen by John; He said: Allow my baptism, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. If Jesus thought it was necessary to be baptized by water, then we had better believe him --right?
"Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him. After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
After all the people had been baptized and Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, heaven was opened and the holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
It happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John. On coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
"John testified further, saying, “I saw the Spirit come down like a dove from the sky and remain upon him. I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.”
When a person is baptized, the same thing happens to them, that happened to Jesus, ONLY THIS GRACE IS NOT VISIBLE AS IT WAS TO JOHN!
**
In the synoptic gospels, Jesus is baptized by John the Baptist. In these accounts, John preaches repentance before the coming judgment, baptism for the forgiveness of sins, and the imminent arrival of one far greater than him. Jesus came to the Jordan River and was baptized with water, there by John…WHY? After the baptism, the heavens open, the holy spirit like a dove descends, and a heavenly voice acclaims Jesus is his Son.
Jesus clearly illustrated by example that baptism, an outward sign of inward grace, by water was/is essential, only in His case, the H.S. was seen by John; He said: Allow my baptism, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness. If Jesus thought it was necessary to be baptized by water, then we had better believe him --right?
"Then Jesus came from Galilee to John at the Jordan to be baptized by him. John tried to prevent him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and yet you are coming to me?” Jesus said to him in reply, “Allow it now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he allowed him. After Jesus was baptized, he came up from the water and behold, the heavens were opened (for him), and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove (and) coming upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, saying, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.”
After all the people had been baptized and Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, heaven was opened and the holy Spirit descended upon him in bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
It happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John. On coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon him. And a voice came from the heavens, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”
"John testified further, saying, “I saw the Spirit come down like a dove from the sky and remain upon him. I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, 'On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.”
When a person is baptized, the same thing happens to them, that happened to Jesus, ONLY THIS GRACE IS NOT VISIBLE AS IT WAS TO JOHN!
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joe370
Guest
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cazayoux
Guest
I know …All I can say is: wow…
I think I hear nurse Ratchett coming down the hall to take BR’s keyboard away.
michel
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NotWorthy
Guest
“offering it up” is done by priests. It would be redundant to add “by a priest”.
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BereanRuss
Guest
Which is greater? The baptism of water or the baptism of fire?
John answered, saying to all, "I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
So yes, baptism is essential for salvation. We agree.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Now you see, Pope Russ, this is incorrect.
You are simply announcing something that is already true. Jesus words in John 20 indicate that the “forgiveness and retaining” are a result of the Apostles judgment.
Notice the words, “those sins you forgive, they are forgiven”.
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NotWorthy
Guest
But the difference is the means of baptism. Pretty much all major Evangelical Protestant faith feel that water baptism is necessary. You tend to disagree.
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NotWorthy
Guest
We believe in a Baptism of Water and Spirit. We don’t agree with you. Other faiths don’t agree with you. Who is right?
“Unless one is born of water and spirit.…”
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