Do Catholics despise Anglicans?

[Sixtus]

I think that it is rather fortunate that us English Orthodox Catholics enjoy a much better relationship with Anglicanism than it appears American Catholics with Episcopalian.

That is rather fortunate for us. Indeed, I have spent a greater part of my life helping to improve the aesthetics of Anglican Churches and church-yards to the glory of God, than I have for my own dear Catholic Church.

Not because I have neglected Catholic Church’s rather, that Anglican Church’s are more plentiful and therefore in greater need of resourcing [as they are after all, ex-Catholic places in origin].

So, I am very sorry that Uncle Sam’s Catholics do not have the same relationship and ecumenistic witness for Christ with Episcopalians [through their own choice] that we English Catholics enjoy with our Anglican brethren.

You are not alone. Scottish Episcopalian are equally diametrically opposed to Catholicism, to the extent of destroying Catholic families and marriages, homes livelihoods and property. That is completely anaethema to Anglicanism. They are as benevolent towards us as we are towards them

My own personal experience of an Episcopalian was an ex-boss who frequently made phone calls to my wife of 30-years to tell her that ‘I had left my place of work to go and see my gay lover.’ This was a complete lie, I was at the time 'at my place of work doing his business. Neither did I ever have a gay [or any other] extramarital relationship.

Similarly, set me up for a lengthy prison sentence for industral espionage. The only saving grace was the amount of evidence against me. The police dismissed it as a ‘set-up’ as there was just too much evidence.

I asked him why he was doing this. He told me ‘because we [Epsicopalian] are at war against Catholics, it is my duty to destroy you’. How sad.

Thank God that is not how Anglicans behave. I would trust any Muslim or athiest before I would trust an Episcopalian. But of English Anglicans, I see them as brethren and friends

 

[mgrfin]

I rather like some Anglican things. Great vestments, great liturgical English, beautiful church architechture… there is no doubting the sincere piety of many a good churchman found therein.

But I still think them in error on a good many things and lacking seven sacraments.

I don’t despise Anglicans as a whole or as individuals, but they are (as taught by the Catholic Church, and this is the Catholic Answers forum, so I am not going to further qualify that) in error.

One of the problems, is that we are apologetic for something that just isn’t true.

Anti-Catholicism is a reality, it exists. It is Catholics who are hated, and despised. Books, articles, web sites can be sited which disprove the thesis of this thread, and prove just the opposite:

Religious anti-Catholic sites:
Secular anti-Catholic sites:
The History of Anti-Catholicism:

shakti.trincoll.edu/~dcruzuri/anti-catholic/religious.html

Anti-Catholic themes may be loosely categorized as follows:

1. attacking Catholicism as being un-Christian or a cult (in the pejorative and not the sociological sense);
2. ridiculing or misinterpreting Catholic doctrine or practice;
3. ascribing to the Catholic Church a sinister role in an anti-Christian or anti-American conspiracy;
4. distorting or taking out of context illegal or scandalous behavior (especially sexual misconduct) by Catholic clergy or laity

We ought to keep our thoughts straight on this issue.

peace

 

[lak611]

I think that it is rather fortunate that us English Orthodox Catholics enjoy a much better relationship with Anglicanism than it appears American Catholics with Episcopalian.

That is rather fortunate for us. Indeed, I have spent a greater part of my life helping to improve the aesthetics of Anglican Churches and church-yards to the glory of God, than I have for my own dear Catholic Church.

Not because I have neglected Catholic Church’s rather, that Anglican Church’s are more plentiful and therefore in greater need of resourcing [as they are after all, ex-Catholic places in origin].

So, I am very sorry that Uncle Sam’s Catholics do not have the same relationship and ecumenistic witness for Christ with Episcopalians [through their own choice] that we English Catholics enjoy with our Anglican brethren.

I think the reason you have closer ties with Anglicans in England is just because there are more of them. In the USA, the Anglican church was more prevalent in the earlier history of our nation (many of our Presidents, congressmen and business leaders were Anglican). At least where I live, the Anglican church is just not very prevalent. I only know one person who was Anglican (she converted to Lutheran 3 years ago after her parish got a gay priest–the parish has since closed because so many parishioners left). I have visited the Episcopal cathedral when I was attending a downtown university. They used to have lunch hour concerts. It was very lovely. Unfortunately, their rector is a gay woman who is up for a promotion. So the next fracture in the church might be coming from my city.

 

[Sixtus]

One of the problems, is that we are apologetic for something that just isn’t true.
Anti-Catholicism is a reality, it exists. It is Catholics who are hated, and despised. Books, articles, web sites can be sited which disprove the thesis of this thread, and prove just the opposite:

Religious anti-Catholic sites:
Secular anti-Catholic sites:
The History of Anti-Catholicism:

shakti.trincoll.edu/~dcruzuri/anti-catholic/religious.html

Anti-Catholic themes may be loosely categorized as follows:

1. attacking Catholicism as being un-Christian or a cult (in the pejorative and not the sociological sense);
2. ridiculing or misinterpreting Catholic doctrine or practice;
3. ascribing to the Catholic Church a sinister role in an anti-Christian or anti-American conspiracy;
4. distorting or taking out of context illegal or scandalous behavior (especially sexual misconduct) by Catholic clergy or laity

We ought to keep our thoughts straight on this issue.

peace

Why are Episcopalians out to kill us? What have I done that an Episcopalian wants to destroy my marriage, my career, my reputation, my credibility, my standing in the community, my sanity?

Why? What have I done that is so gravely wrong and deserving of death? This is not an emotional appeal but a very honest and sincere question of any Episcopalian couragious enough to answer

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

It seems to me that Catholics seem to have more of a disliking for The Anglican Communion than for anyone else, even Lutherans. Why is this? Is is because the Anglican reformers in the 16th century kept most of the RC form of worship when they split from Rome? Is it because of King Henry or Queen Elizabeth II? Or possibly could it be that Anglicans actually profess the Eucharist to be exactly what RC’s believe that it is?

Only some do, the ratio you hear in the media (“Catholic” or otherwise) is not representative of most Catholics today. Most Catholics are not aware of the differences and do not worry about the reasons for the schisms that happened long ago. Most just ignore it or just look at the Anglicans of today as good people who just worship a bit differently then them.

 

[ASimpleSinner]

I’m not sure, is this an ascent or descent that you ended up in your grandmother’s church?

Most assuredly an ascent Isa.

Why would you have to ask? You know I am Catholic. This is Catholic Answers Forum, and this Greek Catholic makes no bones about it, happiness is being a Greek Catholic.

 

[Nella]

Nella I will give you the benifit of the doubt that you are attempting to be sincere. One guy I knew in college who was an agnostic used to say to us “That’s ok, people said those things to Jesus too!”

Yes thank God for the reformation. It gave us the Society of Jesus.

And are you aware of what Luther said/did to the Catholic Church? He wasn’t a victim.

So what? Luther had a higher calling and had the courage to do what others before him were burned at the stake for (by the RCC). Your Catholic spin on history and all of your reading with extreme Catholic bias doesn’t change the truth.

 

[mgrfin]

So what? Luther had a higher calling and had the courage to do what others before him were burned at the stake for (by the RCC). Your Catholic spin on history and all of your reading with extreme Catholic bias doesn’t change the truth.

Nella:
Yes, Luther had a higher calling: the vows he made to God in his Augustinian monastery. He threw off those vows cause they didn’t suit his lust.

Luther wasn’t burned at the stake. He wasn’t even threatened with it. He wasn’t even in prison. He was protected by the Prince to do or say whatever he wanted. Without that protection, his revolt would have surely been overthrown.

He became his own Pope. He said he knew more than all the Fathers and Doctors of the Church before him, including St. Jerome and St. Thomas Aquinas. 1500 years counted as nothing.

He had no proof for his “Sola Scriptura”, but he had to stick with it for the Fathers contradicted everything he wanted to teach.

Luther taught essential corruption of human nature - that man was incapable of doing any good. Do you believe that? He corrupted the message of Jesus Christ.

Who really believes in his doctrine of Justification, that Jesus could not wash away our sins - he could only cover them over.
He claimed that St. Paul preached ‘salvation by faith only’, which is not what St. Paul taught. He did not understand grace. He didn’t know what to make of St. James, so he ignored him…

You would never bring your wife or your kids to hear him preach. He would embarass you and them with his foul mouth.

What is his legacy? Can you tell us what his new religion was all about? (No sound bites, please).

peace

Sept. 15th is the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM

 

[rr1213]

He was protected by the Prince to do or say whatever he wanted. Without that protection, his revolt would have surely been overthrown.

And he most assuredly would have been killed by the Holy Roman Emperor and/or the Church if he hadn’t have been under that protection.

 

[Nella]

Nella:
Yes, Luther had a higher calling: the vows he made to God in his Augustinian monastery. He threw off those vows cause they didn’t suit his lust.

Luther wasn’t burned at the stake. He wasn’t even threatened with it. He wasn’t even in prison. He was protected by the Prince to do or say whatever he wanted. Without that protection, his revolt would have surely been overthrown.

He became his own Pope. He said he knew more than all the Fathers and Doctors of the Church before him, including St. Jerome and St. Thomas Aquinas. 1500 years counted as nothing.

He had no proof for his “Sola Scriptura”, but he had to stick with it for the Fathers contradicted everything he wanted to teach.

Luther taught essential corruption of human nature - that man was incapable of doing any good. Do you believe that? He corrupted the message of Jesus Christ.

Who really believes in his doctrine of Justification, that Jesus could not wash away our sins - he could only cover them over.
He claimed that St. Paul preached ‘salvation by faith only’, which is not what St. Paul taught. He did not understand grace. He didn’t know what to make of St. James, so he ignored him…

You would never bring your wife or your kids to hear him preach. He would embarass you and them with his foul mouth.

What is his legacy? Can you tell us what his new religion was all about? (No sound bites, please).

peace

Sept. 15th is the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM

None of what you say here against Luther is true unbiased history. Luther was an esteemed theologian and knew very well what James said as well as Paul. This is a misconception on your part. As far as what you call his foul mouth, can you show me what he said?? His legacy is what we have today in the products of the Reformation. Thank God for it. We are not saved by the papacy, we are saved by grace through faith. Just as Luther said. Deny it if you wish.

 

[Contarini]

But I must take issue at the barbarous treatment that Catholics suffered in the English Protestant Inquisition which was far worse than anything suffered in the Spanish Inquisition. Things which are simply too disgusting and disturbing to print on a family forum such as CAF.

I don’t think those things are worse than being burned alive. It’s much of a muchness, as far as I’m concerned. And it was not an “Inquisition.” They were executed by the state as traitors. This doesn’t mitigate the horror of what the English did–in fact, it makes it worse as far as I’m concerned, since Anglicanism had a basically idolatrous view of the state and the Church was acting as the state’s puppet.

Just for the record, there were more Catholics killed per week than Protestants who died in ALL the alleged Catholic Inquisitions over 500-years.

What record would that be? As far as I know the total number of Catholics killed was about six hundred, though depending on how you count it I can believe that it was higher. The total number killed by the Spanish Inquisition alone was 2-3,000. Add in the Roman Inquisition and that goes up a little bit. The medieval Inquisitions had a higher death toll, I believe, but by definition Protestants were not involved. If one applies your anachronistically loose definition of Inquisition, however, one would have to count those Protestants executed by Catholic governments without the involvement of an Inquisitorial court, and the number would go up quite a bit.

I don’t think these comparisons matter that much. But as long as people insist on making them, I will question exaggerations and distortions.

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Why are Episcopalians out to kill us? What have I done that an Episcopalian wants to destroy my marriage, my career, my reputation, my credibility, my standing in the community, my sanity?

Why? What have I done that is so gravely wrong and deserving of death? This is not an emotional appeal but a very honest and sincere question of any Episcopalian couragious enough to answer

Well, it’s a weird question. What Episcopalians are out to kill you or to do any of the things you mention?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

So what? Luther had a higher calling and had the courage to do what others before him were burned at the stake for (by the RCC).

No one questions Luther’s courage. But that didn’t make him right.

Which of Luther’s doctrines do you find so admirable? Can you even describe any of his teachings correctly, beyond vague generalizations like “following the Word of God”?

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

His legacy is what we have today in the products of the Reformation. Thank God for it.

I agree that there are some things to thank God for in the “products of the Reformation,” but many others for which we Protestants need to repent from the bottom of our hearts. Division of the Church is not of God. Period.

We are not saved by the papacy, we are saved by grace through faith. Just as Luther said. Deny it if you wish.

Who would deny this? It’s not a matter in dispute.

Edwin

 

[mgrfin]

And he most assuredly would have been killed by the Holy Roman Emperor and/or the Church if he hadn’t have been under that protection.

We don’t know what would have happened. It is speculation to say that he would have been killed.

peace

 

[THutch04]

Why are Episcopalians out to kill us? What have I done that an Episcopalian wants to destroy my marriage, my career, my reputation, my credibility, my standing in the community, my sanity?

Why? What have I done that is so gravely wrong and deserving of death? This is not an emotional appeal but a very honest and sincere question of any Episcopalian couragious enough to answer

I don’t know, I can only speak for my experience growing up, and I don’t know the reality of relations in other countries, but whenever I was an Episcopalian and later an Anglican I never thought about committing violence against Catholics. I don’t know why some people feel that way, because even the ones who really did feel like being Episcopalian or Anglican meant they were superior never did. The only ones I knew who ever had ANY harsh feelings towards Catholics were the ones who based it on social status NOT on religion (and to be fair, they felt the same way about everybody, not just Catholics). Since I don’t fit the upper-class background, I never felt comfortable around those types of Episcopalians either. Unfortunately just like there are some really screwed up Catholics, there are some screwed up Episcopalians as well. But I wouldn’t accuse them in general of wanting to cause any violence, because to be blunt, most of us (even those of us in the northeast which everyone says are the most predjudiced) don’t really care that much about destroying the Catholic Church and everyone in it. Whenever someone here says that they had a bad experience with a Catholic, tons of posters say “don’t judge the Catholic Church based on a few individuals.” I don’t see why this is any different…

 

[Sixtus]

Nella:
Yes, Luther had a higher calling: the vows he made to God in his Augustinian monastery. He threw off those vows cause they didn’t suit his lust.

Luther wasn’t burned at the stake. He wasn’t even threatened with it. He wasn’t even in prison. He was protected by the Prince to do or say whatever he wanted. Without that protection, his revolt would have surely been overthrown.

He became his own Pope. He said he knew more than all the Fathers and Doctors of the Church before him, including St. Jerome and St. Thomas Aquinas. 1500 years counted as nothing.

He had no proof for his “Sola Scriptura”, but he had to stick with it for the Fathers contradicted everything he wanted to teach.

Luther taught essential corruption of human nature - that man was incapable of doing any good. Do you believe that? He corrupted the message of Jesus Christ.

Who really believes in his doctrine of Justification, that Jesus could not wash away our sins - he could only cover them over.
He claimed that St. Paul preached ‘salvation by faith only’, which is not what St. Paul taught. He did not understand grace. He didn’t know what to make of St. James, so he ignored him…

You would never bring your wife or your kids to hear him preach. He would embarass you and them with his foul mouth.

What is his legacy? Can you tell us what his new religion was all about? (No sound bites, please).

peace

Sept. 15th is the Feast of the Seven Sorrows of the BVM

Luther on leaving the Catholic Church fell on hard times. His followers did not offer to look after him as he had expected. Near starving, he was kept, fed and given board and lodgings by courtesy of the Order he had rejected: the Augustinians with approval from the Catholic Church.

It is an indisputed fact that had the Augustinians not come to his rescue he would have undoubtedly have starved to death.

Thus ironically we have only the [generosity of the] Catholic Church to blame for the rise in Lutherism and ultimately that sect which is hell-bent on discreditting and destroying all things Catholic: Episcopalian.

 

[rr1213]

We don’t know what would have happened. It is speculation to say that he would have been killed.

peace

Considering what happened to Huss and that Luther was declared an outlaw, it is pretty solid speculation that Luther would have been killed if he had fallen into the hands of the Church or the Emperor.

 

[Sixtus]

Originally Posted by Sixtus
But I must take issue at the barbarous treatment that Catholics suffered in the English Protestant Inquisition which was far worse than anything suffered in the Spanish Inquisition. Things which are simply too disgusting and disturbing to print on a family forum such as CAF.

I don’t think those things are worse than being burned alive. It’s much of a muchness, as far as I’m concerned. And it was not an “Inquisition.” They were executed by the state as traitors. This doesn’t mitigate the horror of what the English did–in fact, it makes it worse as far as I’m concerned, since Anglicanism had a basically idolatrous view of the state and the Church was acting as the state’s puppet.

Quote:
Just for the record, there were more Catholics killed per week than Protestants who died in ALL the alleged Catholic Inquisitions over 500-years.

What record would that be? As far as I know the total number of Catholics killed was about six hundred, though depending on how you count it I can believe that it was higher. The total number killed by the Spanish Inquisition alone was 2-3,000. The medieval Inquisitions had a higher death toll, I believe, but by definition Protestants were not involved.
I don’t think these comparisons matter that much. But as long as people insist on making them, I will question exaggerations and distortions.

Edwin

---

Affiliation: Episcopalian

Of course these comparisons do not matter…so long as they favour non-Catholicism.

So you reckon that Cromwell persecuted Catholics for a period of 1.2 weeks I can tell you that it was vastly much larger than that.

In fact, 500-Catholics a week died put to the sword: men women and children over several years. The Spanish Inquisition was directly responsible for about 33-deaths. Over a period of 800-years, figures show that of all Inquistions 500-died. That is roughly how many innocent men women and children Catholics, were killed in a single week in Ireland under Cromwell and his Protestant henchmen.

The Spanish Inquisitions were so bad that common criminals expecting to hang for their offences, used to blaspheme in court in order to get their trial transfered to an Inquisitional Court as they were certain of a much fairer hearing and if found guilty, much less harsh sentence.

I work in the Criminal Justice System. These facts are well known. Non-Christian Lawyers often cite them. Why would they if it was not true? It is well documented in English and European Criminal Justice History.

So, the evidence speak for itself: that common criminals used to try their best to get a case transfered to Inquisitional court. They would not if your data was to be believed.

By contrast, in the Protestant Inquisition women were crushed with heavy weights, even if pregnant. More often than not, pregnant women had their unborn babies cut from their stomachs prior to death and the unborn fetus hanged alongside the Mother. Men were disembowled. Children were roasted on an open fire.

Even in pagan Rome if a condemned woman was found to be with child, her life was spared on account of her ‘innocent’ unborn child. Thus pagan Rome was more kind to pregnant women than Protestantism.

Much of a muchness…I don’t think!

 

[Nella]

Luther on leaving the Catholic Church fell on hard times. His followers did not offer to look after him as he had expected. Near starving, he was kept, fed and given board and lodgings by courtesy of the Order he had rejected: the Augustinians with approval from the Catholic Church.

It is an indisputed fact that had the Augustinians not come to his rescue he would have undoubtedly have starved to death.

Thus ironically we have only the [generosity of the] Catholic Church to blame for the rise in Lutherism and ultimately that sect which is hell-bent on discreditting and destroying all things Catholic: Episcopalian.

Please… This is unsubstantiated propaganda and nothing better than rumors. This is really despicable. Come on.