do Catholics focus more on suffering than non Catholics?

[Earnest_Bunbury]

…but none of what you have posted (including passages from the Catechism) seems to suggest that it is God’s desire that I should suffer. He warns me that I will, and I take the warning seriously. But shouldn’t His will be made known plainly before dark accusations are made about people rejecting His will at their peril? That’s all I’m asking: Make it clear.

And please forgive me, but so far this has been a perfect website to observe Catholics misquote their own teachings, so please understand your answers will be subject to some scrutiny…

It is up to you to accept the authority of the Church or to accept the authority of someone else (or your own authority) to interpret definitively ones actions pleasing to God. Like the Trinity in the Bible, explicit is generally not available as parables used in the Old Testament and by Jesus to teach don’t spell out in detail what you demand. Eyes to “see” and ears to “hear” is explicit in showing that there is more than having something spelled out for you. Hell is as clear as it gets if one chooses to reject the correct authority.

 

[ez3714]

We desire suffering, not for its own sake, but for the sake of God. …And so the more we bear the burden of suffering for the sake of others in Christ, the more we bear Christ and are like unto Him.

Shin, so much of what you have written can be easily seen as truth. The parts I’m not convinced about drip with love, much the same feeling I got when I read John Paul the Great for the first time.

And as I have heard Father Corapi preach: Sometimes ya gotta accept things on faith that you don’t understand; but pray to the Holy Spirit for understanding.

But I will re-state my sticking point in hopes that a person with love might respond, and the rest might go find some Baptist to abuse (for his own good, of course)

Suffering clearly can have its benefits. The Church says so, and there are witnesses from the Old and New Testaments that say so. But can you show where it says that God, when planning out my days, takes pleasure in planning out suffering for me, and that to decline that opportunity is to reject the Will of God for my life?

 

[Shin]

Yes. I can. Read the Autobiography of St. Margaret Mary.

You will hear in God’s own words the joy He takes in the suffering of His servant for His sake, and her own pains and joys at once.

It can be hard to take for the beginner. . . People go into denial in the face of suffering very often. But it is Divine Providence.

It’s taken me years to adjust my heart to that autobiography and God as He is in it. Good years. Why did I take so long? Still can touch me with difficulties.

Do not take me wrong, He empathizes, consoles, but also it is to His glory. The glory of love is when people suffer for pure love’s sake.

And it is, as said, if the saints could envy those on earth, they would envy us one thing: The ability to still suffer for Christ. It gains us treasure in Heaven, and helps rescue souls.

God does not take pleasure directly in suffering either, i.e. for its own sake, but He takes pleasure in the love that embraces it for the sake of the greater good. He unabashedly does so. He turns natural troubles into goods. There is none he cannot. Unlike human beings, when there is nothing to be ashamed of, however scandalous it is to the worldly, God says like He says of Job, “See here is my servant Job! There is no one on earth like him, blameless and upright, fearing God and avoiding evil?”

What in sinners would be tainted by some flaw, or devil, in saints, good Catholics and in the Lord, can be appreciated properly. And that includes suffering.

Helping people to suffer for the sake of God is something saints and good Catholics, that is, when they are no longer worldly and misunderstanding, it is something they do to help one another.

I recall St. Jean Marie Vianney, he had a housekeeper who he gave great merit to, by treating her in such a way that she served him and helped keep his house for the sake of God alone, and not for any rewards he gave her, emotionally or materially. And this was to her glory in Heaven. Now a non-Catholic, or uneducated Catholic, could not handle this, the person would want to be coddled, praised, thanked for everything done. But St. Jean and his parish were at a higher level. They were all working for Heaven and their place there, for God, not for their comforts here.

The more you study the saints and the Church, the more you will understand this perspective, and that it is the best one. This place here really is a brief, temporary stay, wherein the real point of being here is to gather up as much treasure in Heaven as possible, not look for direct comforts here as if we were staying here for a long time.

Eternity is a long time. This is nothing.

Suffering is what makes heroes and saints out of people, the people we most admire and love. What increases the Lord with them – When it is born and offered up for His sake. Greater love no man has. . .

I still don’t understand it all, and have put some of this poorly, but I think I am pointing you in the right direction.

 

[ElizabethPH]

But can you show where it says that God, when planning out my days, takes pleasure in planning out suffering for me, and that to decline that opportunity is to reject the Will of God for my life?

But our suffering is not the result of God’s Will for us; suffering is a result of original sin. Our lives must be for the glory of God our suffering as well; we lift up our suffering to the glory of God. He does not take glory in our suffering; but our lifting it up to him is what pleases Him.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

The more you study the saints and the Church, the more you will understand this perspective, and that it is the best one. This place here really is a brief, temporary stay, wherein the real point of being here is to gather up as much treasure in Heaven as possible, not look for direct comforts here as if we were staying here for a long time.

Eternity is a long time. This is nothing.

Suffering is what makes heroes and saints out of people, the people we most admire and love. What increases the Lord with them – When it is born and offered up for His sake. Greater love no man has. . .

I still don’t understand it all, and have put some of this poorly, but I think I am pointing you in the right direction.

Beautifully put, dear friend, and very edifying for those of us who are still a* long* way off from embracing the** Cross!** Thank you for sharing these blessed truths of our** Holy Catholic Faith.**

 

[Shin]

But our suffering is not the result of God’s Will for us; suffering is a result of original sin. Our lives must be for the glory of God our suffering as well; we lift up our suffering to the glory of God. He does not take glory in our suffering; but our lifting it up to him is what pleases Him.

Well… no, this is not true stated as it is, directly.

God does at times will suffering for us. Absolutely. Positively, directly, yes.

God glories in the cross for Christ. And so do we, and does He with us.

 

[Liz_J]

I think Protestants are definitely more focused on the blessings you get from God, rather than the sufferings. It’s one of the things that led me to the Catholic Church actually. I got rather tired of the whole ‘Follow God and your life will be fantastic’ message. And in all honesty, I think there’s quite a few people in Protestant churches who are there mainly for what they will get out of it, rather than anything else. When things don’t go so well, they leave. The Pentecostal churches are particularly good at stressing the blessings, and completely ignoring the suffering.

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Whoever suggested otherwise?* Every* decent person who lives experiences suffering in one way or another.It’s an automatic result of the Fall of man. How well we suffer is the true “litmus test” of the spiritual life.And there are those generous " victim souls" who merely desire to gain more graces for those who do not pray for themselves.
“Pray and offer sacrifices for poor sinners, who fall into Hell everyday because they have no one to pray for them…” (Our Lady of Fatima)

Thanks. I see what you’re saying but that was not my question either.

My question was more about PRESUMING who is condemned to Hell because an individual simply lead a decent and upright Catholic life according to his best understanding----and did not seek out extra suffering for suffering’s sake.

Also to presume who,** individually**, is going to Hell—doesn’t the Church frown on that?

There is so much contradictory information here and everywhere that it makes the head spin. Are we Catholic or Calvinist? Do we see the created world as evil? How is that possible if God Himself created it and found it good?

Are we permitted to smile? Are we permitted to love our families? Are we permitted to enjoy anything? If not, why did God create a sensate body for us?

God alone can read my heart. He knows that I have many problems. He knows that I was brought up in a hostile and barbarian climate and that my catechesis was sadly lacking. I joined the Church with full intention to obey, but there is a LOT of confusion out there and in here.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Thanks. I see what you’re saying but that was not my question either.

My question was more about PRESUMING who is condemned to Hell because an individual simply lead a decent and upright Catholic life according to his best understanding----and did not seek out extra suffering for suffering’s sake.

Also to presume who,** individually**, is going to Hell—doesn’t the Church frown on that?

There is so much contradictory information here and everywhere that it makes the head spin. Are we Catholic or Calvinist? Do we see the created world as evil? How is that possible if God Himself created it and found it good?

Are we permitted to smile? Are we permitted to love our families? Are we permitted to enjoy anything? If not, why did God create a sensate body for us?

God alone can read my heart. He knows that I have many problems. He knows that I was brought up in a hostile and barbarian climate and that my catechesis was sadly lacking. I joined the Church with full intention to obey, but there is a LOT of confusion out there and in here.

God’s greatest attribute is** Mercy**…His very* essence* is** Love**…He probes and knows every human heart, and only He is the just Judge. We were created* by*** Love*** for*** Love**, and the Holy Spirit has been poured out to communicate the infinite Love of God! As He does so, He convicts us of sin,* only* because it would do us harm.* Suffering somehow repairs the damage done by sin. There is an infinite incompatibility between God and sin. He " became sin" to deliver us from the** deadly*** effect that sin has on our souls.
He showed us the depth of His Love by suffering the ignominious death of the Cross.** He** asks us to “take up our own cross” to cooperate in His salvific work. There is no shame in the cross when we unite it with HIs Cross. For our Redemption is the* greatest act of* LOVE** the world has ever known!
So do not fear your weakness, dear friend, nor any suffering that you have endured-and not sought after-for that is your gift to Him still, if you love** Him** and your neighbor as yourself. He is preparing a place for you in His Father’s House…
This is the reason for our hope and our*** joy*** as Christians, so rejoice!.

 

[Shin]

Are we permitted to smile? Are we permitted to love our families? Are we permitted to enjoy anything? If not, why did God create a sensate body for us?

Now now, don’t go too far.

Being sorrowful and taking pains are not exclusive with joy and happiness. We are human beings, we have several different emotions going on at once normally, and for a healthy life we tend to not have one or the other of any emotion 24/7.

Day, night, seasons, there’s a time for everything. We must love everything for God’s sake, that however is true, and the spiritual goal, so our love of our family should be because of Him. And so too our enjoyments, the goal is, God in all, all in all.

As for individually who is in Hell, there have been plenty of traditional beliefs about who is there. I believe in some cases is it quite settled about some individuals, because of the weight of constant testimony – when the Fathers agree, or it is always believed always and everwhere, that does it. Judas is one example. Cain, I believe another, and many of the people who were punished by God in the Old Testament for mortal sins with death. The bad thief, rather than the good thief.

And so on.

For example, in this year of the priest, the Patron Saint of Parish priests, model for them all, says:

‘No, indeed; if sinners were to think of eternity – of that terrible FOR EVER! – They would be converted instantly. Cain has been in Hell nearly six thousand years, and he is only just entering it.’

‘Take a house that has been for a long time very dirty and neglected – it is in vain to sweep it out, there will always be a nasty smell. It is the same with our soul after confession; it requires tears to purify it. My children, we must ask earnestly for repentance. After confession, we must plant a thorn in our heart, and never lose sight of our sins. We must do as the angel did to St. Francis of Assisi; he fixed in him five darts, which never came out again.’

‘Nothing is so beautiful as a pure soul. If we understood this, we could not lose our purity. The pure soul is disengaged from matter, from earthly things, and from itself. . . That is why the saints ill-treated their body, that is why they did not grant it what it required, not even to rise five minutes later, to warm themselves, to eat anything that gave them pleasure. . .’

‘Purgatory is in those souls that are not dead to themselves; Hell is in the heart of the impious; Paradise in that of the perfect, who are closely united to Our Lord.’

St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney, the Cure of Ars

And St. John Cassian, the writer for all monks:

'Thus it is clear that our whole fight is against the passions within. Once these have been extirpated from our heart by the grace and help of God, we will readily be able to live not simply with other men, but even with wild beasts, Job confirms this when he says: ‘And the beasts of the field shall be at peace with you’ (Job 5:23). But first we must struggle with the demon of dejection who casts the soul into despair. We must drive him from our heart. It was this demon that did not allow Cain to repent after he had killed his brother, or Judas after he had betrayed his Master. The only form of dejection we should cultivate is the sorrow which goes with repentance for sin and is accompanied by hope in God. It was of this form of dejection that the Apostle said: ‘Godly sorrow produces a saving repentance which is not to be repented of (2 Cor. 7:10). This ‘godly sorrow’ nourishes the soul through the hope engendered by repentance, and it is mingled with joy. That is why it makes us obedient and eager for every good work: accessible, humble, gentle, forbearing and patient in enduring all the suffering or tribulation God may send us. Possession of these qualities shows that a man enjoys the fruits of the Holy Spirit: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, goodness, faith, self-control (cf. Gal. 5:11). But from the other kind of dejection we come to know the fruits of the evil spirit: listlessness, impatience, anger, hatred, contentiousness, despair, sluggishness in praying. So we should shun this second form of dejection as we would unchastity, avarice, anger and the rest of the passions. It can be healed by prayer, hope in God, meditation on Holy Scripture, and by living with godly people.’

St. John Cassian

And in another place:

‘There is another kind of sadness as well, which is more detestable. It inspires in the wrongdoer not amendment of life or correction of vice but the most pernicious despair of soul. It did not cause Cain to repent after his brothers’ murder [Genesis 4:8] or Judas to hasten to healing and reparation after the betrayal; instead it drew him to hang himself with a noose in his despair. [Matthew 27:5]’

‘The sadness that “works repentance unto a lasting salvation,” likewise, is obedient, courteous, humble, mild, gracious, and patient, inasmuch as it comes from the love of God. It stretches itself out tirelessly, in its desire for perfection, to every bodily pain and to contrition of spirit. With a kind of joy, and quickened by the hope of its own progress, it retains all its gracious courtesy and forbearance, having in itself all the fruits of the Holy Spirit, which the same Apostle enumerates: “The fruits of the Spirit are love, joy, peace, forbearance, goodness, kindness, faith, mildness, continence”. [Galatians 5:22-23] But the other is very harsh, impatient, rough, full of rancor and barren grief and punishing despair, crushing the one whom it has embraced and drawing him away from any effort and from salutary sorrow, since it is irrational. Too, it not only removes the efficacy of prayer but also eliminates all the spiritual fruits that we have spoken of and that the first is capable of bestowing.’

St. John Cassian

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

I don’t think I get this at all.

 

[Shin]

Well, that’s a good start! Pray to do so!

It’s better not to know, and know that you don’t know, than to know and not to know that you know, or not to know and not to know that you don’t know.

 

[TNAB]

I don’t think I get this at all.

I couldn’t agree with you more… I believe that there is a point in which you can go too far… That “suffering for Christ’s sake” actually becomes very disordered (by means of causing extensive pain and suffering upon the self)… Whatever happened to “our bodies are temples of the holy spirit”?? I can understand fasting and mortification in terms of giving up saying bad things about someone or something like that… But actually causing physical harm upon oneself…that seems like a full-out disorder, as health professionals would tell us…

And of course God wants us to be happy and love the life we live in right now… The conscience of every human being tells them that unless they have submitted themselves to misleading teachings… At the same time, we know that the next life is even better, because we will be fully perfected in God’s glory… But is this life terrible or not to be loved?? Of course not! How depressing our lives are if we think this way (again seems like a health disorder)…

We need to rejoice in our sufferings, since this is the will of God, and “take up our crosses” in healthy, rational ways… ways that do not contradict our conscience… and it is my every belief that causing harm upon oneself, even if you think it is being offered for the “Glory of God” is unhealthy, illogical, and actually fully against the will of God! I challenge those that think otherwise to try the healthy path and notice how much their relationship with God grows… You will love God more and this is what, above all things, will allow you to remain faithful, not self-infliction of pain, which is not in accordance with the true Gospel message.

 

[Shin]

Some of what you said was fine in the proper context, but when you said ‘it is your belief’ that is the problem.

Voluntary taking up of suffering, the discipline, are well established Catholic tradition and still practiced today. It is the world and that attitude that does not understand it, but it is what makes saints. If you want holiness, you have to embrace suffering to a certain degree, of your own will, not merely waiting for it to arrive with undue trepidation, or worse always fleeing it.

This is not a ‘health and wealth’ as the ideal in this world religion.

What I see here is an equation of things en mass with something that does not belong there, i.e. certainly worldly people without the graces to bear suffering properly would think this way, and see it in a carnal fashion and react as if that were the only way, but God calls them to a larger view, to have faith, and to realize with His grace they can bear more and be like Christ.

An un-Christian view of suffering always equates exterior suffering with some kind of damaging, inwards turned interior suffering. But this is not the case, with God’s grace, suffering on the outside does not turn into something self destructive on the inside, but the opposite. And so one can offer it up, not merely as it comes, but as you to a degree choose it to arrive.

So the call for Christian conversion is to learn a proper appreciation for the Cross.

If suffering causes you to interiorly fall apart, this is a call to interior change, as well as prudent approaches to the matter. There is a time and a season for all things of course, suffering included.

It is how we react in the face of suffering that reveals our weaknesses, and it is very often precisely by suffering that God points out to us what we need to change – outside sometimes, but more often, far more often – inside.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

.

And of course God wants us to be happy and love the life we live in right now…

In reality, God knows what is ultimately the best for our immortal soul. He allows suffering to draw souls to Himself. He has a special affinity for those who immolate Him. He didn’t love His earthly life, but “laid it down freely”, for the salvation of the world… “greater love has no man than this”…

We need to rejoice in our sufferings, since this is the will of God, and “take up our crosses” in*** healthy, rational ***ways… ways that do not contradict our conscience.

Is it healthy and rational when a family loses loved ones in war or in a natural disaster? What about a family member who is murdered? What is far worse, is the multitude of souls who are perpetrating evil crimes and whose souls are in a state of great peril.These are extreme examples, but we are not always afforded the opportunity to keep our crosses in a “tidy fashion” of what’s healthy, convenient or rational.
It is better to thank God for those who* choose*** to live a penitential life so that some of these horrors may be remitted and even prevented.
So “…pray and offer sacrifices for poor souls who are falling into Hell because they have no one to pray for them…” (Our Lady of Fatima)

 

[Sailor_Kenshin]

Some of what you said was fine in the proper context, but when you said ‘it is your belief’ that is the problem.

Voluntary taking up of suffering, the discipline, are well established Catholic tradition and still practiced today. It is the world and that attitude that does not understand it, but it is what makes saints. If you want holiness, you have to embrace suffering to a certain degree, of your own will, not merely waiting for it to arrive with undue trepidation, or worse always fleeing it.

This is not a ‘health and wealth’ as the ideal in this world religion.

What I see here is an equation of things en mass with something that does not belong there, i.e. certainly worldly people without the graces to bear suffering properly would think this way, and see it in a carnal fashion and react as if that were the only way, but God calls them to a larger view, to have faith, and to realize with His grace they can bear more and be like Christ.

An un-Christian view of suffering always equates exterior suffering with some kind of damaging, inwards turned interior suffering. But this is not the case, with God’s grace, suffering on the outside does not turn into something self destructive on the inside, but the opposite. And so one can offer it up, not merely as it comes, but as you to a degree choose it to arrive.

So the call for Christian conversion is to learn a proper appreciation for the Cross.

If suffering causes you to interiorly fall apart, this is a call to interior change, as well as prudent approaches to the matter. There is a time and a season for all things of course, suffering included.

It is how we react in the face of suffering that reveals our weaknesses, and it is very often precisely by suffering that God points out to us what we need to change – outside sometimes, but more often, far more often – inside.

Hasn’t the Magisterium warned against average people taking on this sort of thing for themselves? As a possible source of many sins? Pride and holier-than-thou-ism being one of them.

I listened to an old show of Mother Angelica’s today on this very subject. She is very wise.

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Hasn’t the Magisterium warned against average people taking on this sort of thing for themselves? As a possible source of many sins? Pride and holier-than-thou-ism being one of them.

I listened to an old show of Mother Angelica’s today on this very subject. She is very wise.

Mother Angelica is indeed very wise, and she-more than most-knows the efficacy of renouncing comforts, enduring physical and emotional pain and living a life of austere reparation, in a cloistered monastery, following a long tradition with the Poor Clare nuns, who offer their lives for the purpose of consoling Our Lord and His Mother for the outrages, blasphemies and abominations committed against the Sacred and Eucharistic Heart of Jesus.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

None of us can escape suffering in this world. I believe that we as Catholics are blessed with that understanding and we can pray for the strength to bear such suffering as will inevitably come to us. One beautiful prayer I have heard says in part…“Do not pray for an easy life…pray to become a stronger person” the better to bear whatever suffering may come.

That said, I must say that I am extremely perplexed and disturbed by what I have heard of certain saints and religious people who inflict tortures upon themselves, starve themselves, go without bathing, wear hair shirts full of lice, and so on. I am inclined to think that that is a sign of serious mental disturbance rather than holiness, and not to be imitated. Instead of these extreme practices, wouldn’t it be better to make every attempt to serenely bear the trials and tribulations which will come to all of us anyway? Or does God really want us to do bizarre things like wrap ourselves in barbed wire?

Some denominations do minimize suffering or even hint that if someone is suffering it is because God is displeased with him or her or they preach the “gospel of wealth and health”. I have never agreed with that. But some Catholics in my opinion have let the emphasis on suffering get way out of hand. I welcome your feedback on this question, as it still perplexes me. Grace and Peace be with you.

Your concern about mental satability vs saintliness is the reason why all out-of-normal mortifications *must *be done under spiritual direction. The Church has never taught that those bygone Saints who did “wrap themselves in barbed wire” were crazy rather than holy, but our understanding of mental wellness has changed quite a bit in the last few hundred years.

A better way to think about this for new Catholics (or those who aren’t familiar with the teaching) is to consider spiritual mortification. That can be thought of as yielding your will to another. So, you watch the movie your friend picks, eat the dinner your spouse cooks, play Candyland with your daughter–all without complaining or even showing your dislike or impatience.

Sometimes, eating Mexican for the 3rd night in a row can be more redemptive than fasting. Or not buying the latest cute outfit than wearing a hairshirt. ‘Practicing’ in this way can indeed make us better able to “serenely bear the trials and tribulations which will come to all of us anyway”–which is a very worthy goal!

 

[Gabriella_San_S]

Your concern about mental satability vs saintliness is the reason why all out-of-normal mortifications *must *be done under spiritual direction. The Church has never taught that those bygone Saints who did “wrap themselves in barbed wire” were crazy rather than holy, but our understanding of mental wellness has changed quite a bit in the last few hundred years.

A better way to think about this for new Catholics (or those who aren’t familiar with the teaching) is to consider spiritual mortification. That can be thought of as yielding your will to another. So, you watch the movie your friend picks, eat the dinner your spouse cooks, play Candyland with your daughter–all without complaining or even showing your dislike or impatience.

Sometimes, eating Mexican for the 3rd night in a row can be more redemptive than fasting. Or not buying the latest cute outfit than wearing a hairshirt. ‘Practicing’ in this way can indeed make us better able to “serenely bear the trials and tribulations which will come to all of us anyway”–which is a very worthy goal!

Excellent post! Thank you!

 

[TNAB]

Some of what you said was fine in the proper context, but when you said ‘it is your belief’ that is the problem.

Voluntary taking up of suffering, the discipline, are well established Catholic tradition and still practiced today. It is the world and that attitude that does not understand it, but it is what makes saints. If you want holiness, you have to embrace suffering to a certain degree, of your own will, not merely waiting for it to arrive with undue trepidation, or worse always fleeing it.

This is not a ‘health and wealth’ as the ideal in this world religion.

What I see here is an equation of things en mass with something that does not belong there, i.e. certainly worldly people without the graces to bear suffering properly would think this way, and see it in a carnal fashion and react as if that were the only way, but God calls them to a larger view, to have faith, and to realize with His grace they can bear more and be like Christ.

An un-Christian view of suffering always equates exterior suffering with some kind of damaging, inwards turned interior suffering. But this is not the case, with God’s grace, suffering on the outside does not turn into something self destructive on the inside, but the opposite. And so one can offer it up, not merely as it comes, but as you to a degree choose it to arrive.

So the call for Christian conversion is to learn a proper appreciation for the Cross.

If suffering causes you to interiorly fall apart, this is a call to interior change, as well as prudent approaches to the matter. There is a time and a season for all things of course, suffering included.

It is how we react in the face of suffering that reveals our weaknesses, and it is very often precisely by suffering that God points out to us what we need to change – outside sometimes, but more often, far more often – inside.

Thanks for the response. I agree about the idea of mortification, but only in ways that do not impede on personal health and well-being… something that should, of course, be valued… and I know having good personal health is, in no way, goes against the teachings of the Catholic Church. It is not the question of whether or not mortification is right… It is the question of whether doing it in unhealthy ways is right…

I agree with the post above that spiritual mortification is absolutely great! This is what I often attempt to do… although I don’t necessarily think of it as mortification… Helping others, even if it’s not convienient at a particular time to do so, is what Christ would do… and rejoice at doing it at the same time… The part that I don’t agree with is self-infliction of physical pain, which I consider self-abuse… No matter if we offer that suffering up to Christ or whatever the case may be… God is telling me, perhaps not everyone, but ME, that this is wrong and that I will grow closer to him without doing this… As the Catechism of the Catholic Church says at one point, we must follow our concience, not someone else’s, not the saints’, not billy bob’s, OURS… and in matters such as this, my individual conscience is telling me not to inflict physical pain upon my body because it’s just down-right unhealthy.

What am I saying?

1.) Mortification is a Catholic Teaching that should be held as true and profitable for growing in relationship with Christ.

2.) The degree at which an individual decides to mortify him or herself, whether physically or spiritually, need not be exactly according to the saints or Billy Bob, but according to his or her personal call.

3.) According to my individual concience and lessons learned from a personal anxiety disorder, I believe physical pain is too far because it is mentally disordered and would lead me down the wrong path.

We have differing opinions on HOW far to go… This is mine, and I think God is pleased with it and values it.