Do Catholics have to pray to Mary?

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KMG said:
A Catholic cannot refuse in principle to pray to Mary.
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You keep insisting that, but reasonable Catholics can disagree on this… You are free to pray to Mary. Some Catholics ask Mary to pray to God with them or for them; not to her. I grant your right to pray as you please… I’m having a hard time understanding why you won’t grant that there is diversity in how people pray… I mean, goodness, some people are doing what we literally say in the Mass and you are calling that illegitimate.
 
Didn’t say anything was illegitimate. Said a Catholic cannot refuse prayer to Mary IN PRINCIPLE. Because such a refusal would reveal a problem with said Catholic’s belief in certain major Catholic teachings.
 
KMG said:
Didn’t say anything was illegitimate. Said a Catholic cannot refuse prayer to Mary IN PRINCIPLE. Because such a refusal would reveal a problem with said Catholic’s belief in certain major Catholic teachings.
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Well you’ve insisted that Catholics have to pray to Mary and do not allow for Catholics to ask Mary to pray for them or to pray to God with her. You are insisting something that not even the Mass calls for… Catholicism by KMG in other words… The Church has many devotions and prayers available and recommends them to the faithful… but does not insist on them.

During Mass, which all Catholics must attend, the faithful are called to ask Mary, the other saints, the angels and each other to pray to God on their behalf (as has been mentioned several times now). The Mass also calls on the faithful to invoke the memory of Mary and other saints. This is abundantly clear.

You had mentioned the Liturgy of the Hours earlier and some of the Marian antiphons… beautiful stuff. Not something that all Catholics are called to though.

Summary… is that Catholics are welcome and encouraged to have devotion to Mary and the saints. There are many legitimate ways that people can do this. Some choose to pray to Mary as a personal devotion, some choose the liturgy of the hours which includes many Marian prayers, some choose the rosary or consecration to Jesus through Mary… there are many options… some choose to pray to God with Mary… the idea of joining ones voice with Mary, the others saints and the choirs of angels is very appealing to some… like a sort of symphony of prayer which combines earthly voices with heavenly voices united in praise to God… some simply ask Mary to pray to God for them like the Mass calls for.

Bottom line… The Church allows for diversity on this topic. The rigidness and forced homogenization of ways of praying is not something that many Catholics, including this one, would sign up for. I hope the way you approach prayer is fruitful for you…
 
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Actually, ALL Catholics of the Roman Rite ARE called to the Liturgy of the Hours.

And again, no, there is no diversity permitted on the question of refusal of prayer to Mary IN PRINCIPLE. Those two words, incidentally, are key.
 
“Asking Mary to pray with or for you” is what “praying to Mary” means, in the Catholic Church. No one (who is not in error) prays to Mary as someone who can act apart from God.
 
Yes, I was just about to make the same comment. In order to ask Mary to pray for someone, one first of all has to address her in prayer. One is praying to her in order to ask her to pray for some intention. Praying to her is not worship; it is simply addressing her in prayer. It is like me asking you to pray for me. First I have to speak to you, i.e., pray to you.
 
Usagi said:
“Asking Mary to pray with or for you” is what “praying to Mary”
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Good… thank-you! Sounds like you are in agreement with the understanding I presented, but use the word ‘to’ to mean with or ‘to God on your behalf’

WooWee … took a long time to get there.
 
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Not every prayer to Mary in the liturgy is asking her to intercede with God.
 
KMG said:
Not every prayer to Mary in the liturgy is asking her to intercede with God.
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Like what? I’ve gone through the Order of the Mass a few times, and have only found what I mentioned previously -asking Mary to pray with us to God and invoking her memory along with Joseph and other saints. What are the other examples?
 
You refuse to read closely what I have posted repeatedly. The Mass is not the extent of the liturgy. The Office is also the liturgy.
 
Would you care to explain what you mean with this statement?
We ask for Mary’s prayers in the Confiteor and for her intersession in the EP, but in neither case are we praying “to” Mary, we are asking her to intercede for us to her Son.

Language matters.
 
Yes, this is true. But even in the LOTH, pray to Mary is for her intersession to her Son, not prayer “to” her.

We need to remember that not everyone one who comes to this site is A. Catholic and B. Knowledgeable or strong in their faith.
We need to be very careful with our language,lest we cause scandal.
 
KMG said:
You refuse to read closely what I have posted repeatedly. The Mass is not the extent of the liturgy. The Office is also the liturgy
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You’re incorrigible!! And passionate…

Bringing this discussion back to it’s purpose… Do Catholics have to pray to Mary?.. You arguing that there are prayers to Mary in the Divine Office… which there may be and I’m just not familiar. The problem is that the laity are under no obligation to pray the office, so that is irrelevant to the discussion.

In the Mass, the language is very clear and does not call us to pray TO Mary. All. Catholics are obligated to the Mass… The Mass does not call for prayer to Mary, but instead asks her to pray for us and to invoke her memory… I don’t know why some feel the need to change/use different language than the Church, but many do by using prayer TO to mean praying to God WITH or FOR. Seems silly to me to use more confusing language, but as long as the intent is right, who cares…it is a personal thing in how one prays to God and how one invites Mary and other saints in to the practice.
 
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Wrong. The Marian antiphons of the Office have more than just asking intercessions of Christ.

Not scandal. More like basic Church reality common to both East and West.
 
Antiphon at MASS:

“Virgo Dei Genetrix, quem totus non capit orbis, in tua se clausit viscera factus homo.”

That’s in the Missal, not the Breviary (and yes, of the Novus Ordo). Shall we say that people who don’t want to pray to Mary should just merely remain silent or refuse to join in that antiphon?
 
Another one from the MISSAL:

“Salve, sancte parens, enixa puerpera Regem…”

Oh look, another one!

“Beata es, Virgo Maria, quae omnium portasti Creatorem…”

And yet another!

“Benedicta es tu, Maria…”

I rest my case. Yes, Catholics pray to Mary in the Mass.
 
I wouldn’t rest your case just yet… a link would help… I’ve been unable to find your references in the missal.
 
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Antiphons, while could be considered prayer, they are more part of a prayer structure ( comparable to a refrain in a song) and while they may be directed to Mary, they are still words of praise and admiration not of worship.

You are being disingenuous and are giving a perfect example of why devotion to Mary is such a stumbling block for so many people.
 
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Think propers on Marian feasts rather than the ordinary of the Mass. Our Lady is definitely directly addressed at times.
 
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