Do Catholics teach that the world must be made Christian?

[AmosTown]

I don’t know what the OP’s missal is or anything about it but “the world must be made Christian” is not right. We are to share the good news, not “make” the world Christian. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything.

-Tim-

I don’t know what the OP’s missal is or anything about it but “the world must be made Christian” is not right. We are to share the good news, not “make” the world Christian. Jesus never forced anyone to do anything.

-Tim-

That doesn’t seem to fit with the history of the church or the bible. The martyrs were risking their mortal life to preach the gospel to people that were so against God’s law they’d kill anyone that stood in the way of their pagan lifestyle.

I’ve been studying this night and day and your comment just doesn’t fit with history.

If you look at the history you had the era of the apostles. It is undeniable that there were entire communities and towns of christians. The whole town lived according to the word of God and the faith.

The whole town was given to God which stems from the Holy of the Holies being the center of life among the Jews.

Exod 40:34-35 Then the cloud covered the tabernacle of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tabernacle of meeting, because the cloud rested above it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

It would be historically impossible to deny the fact that the apostles and their successors built churches and tabernacles in their communities and towns.

Their system of Jewish worship established Christ as very rhythm of their lives revolved around. This was the the temple Holy of Holies, Jesus Christ among them in the body and blood sacrament.

The system of catholic beliefs as I see it is very clear from the view that the priest is the apostle of Jesus the High priest. The sacrifice at the center of life on earth is Jesus Christ in the New Covenant. The people join to the priests sacrifice in community. The people get purified through Christ in the sacraments. The people must keep their sinfulness in check through confession and the rhythm of religion. Their daily affairs get sanctified by the joining to Jesus sacrifice that they may be worthy to enter the house of God, the Holy of Holies.

They receive the body and blood of Christ and they become living tabernacles.

They then take Jesus from the temple into the world and transform society.

The world can only be sanctified before God by the practice this apostolic way of life.

There is no other religious process that can save the world because sinners of a chaotic society of backsliders need a holy and sanctified Social Order to faithfully follow Jesus.

The church therefore must change the world such that every town village and city on earth has at its heart, the Holy of Holies. This heart must beat with the love of God nourished by the food of Jesus body and blood.

The martyrs religion transformed the Roman world.    Towns all over the world have patron saints and religious festivals.

I can see that the apostolic religion is so simple and spotless. The world must be made Christian. Its in the bible.

 

[po18guy]

I respectfully disagree.

Before you disagree with Della, you’d better know your stuff!

Although it is also important to be Christ like in our daily living, we can’t stick our heads in the sand and do nothing. As far as the comment ‘but we don’t push our faith onto those not disposed to receive it because doing so can do more damage than good.’ How can we damage someone who’s already damaged and needs the message? Kind of sounds like an excuse rather than just saying “I don’t want to do it”.

“Bible thumper” is not a complimentary term. It was coined as a pejorative toward those who incessantly impose the Gospel on unwilling hearts. We are given the gift of prudence and expected to use it. Jesus, our Divine example, preached and moved on. He did not remain for weeks, hammering the Gospel into them. We can often accomplish more by the witness of our joy-filled lives in Christ. That cannot be hidden from others and it is not passive, it is active witnessing.

But I realize that going out into all the world doesn’t fit everyone. We are all one body of Christ and we all have different parts. So I’m not putting your answer down, just adding to it. Thanks.

Atheism is not a natural state of mankind. Atheists had to be pushed there. They heard and saw things about us that they did not like. We most certainly can cause damage if we beat them over the head with any unwanted message, including the Gospel. Nothing - nothing - that you or I or anyone else on this earth can say will convince a single hardened heart to repent. We have all tried and failed, haven’t we? Rather, it is solely by the action of the Holy Spirit - the Consoler - called by our fervent prayer, that hearts are softened. If words are needed, the Spirit will give them to us as He uses our patient and loving example to soften the hearts of those around us.

 

[Petaro]

Does not the Catholic Church evangelize through its hospitals. hospices, and organised charity the world never saw before it met Christ in these works? Did not Mother Teresa do more to bring the name of Jesus to the poor than all the door stopping evangelists any church can muster?
In our personal charity and love of others we carry Christ through our hands to a decaying world. As we do not ,so shall Christ deny us as His followers. It is our choice.
Not everyone has the time and disposition to talk the Good News in organised evangelism like the Mormons do with their religion. But their zeal should be respected.
Our whole lives should be a prayer of adoration to our God, and how often do we fail? Public preaching in the little acts of kindness and example may be far more efficacious than intellectual debate and proselytizing that may be beyond us. AMDG

 

[AmosTown]

Does not the Catholic Church evangelize through its hospitals. hospices, and organised charity the world never saw before it met Christ in these works? Did not Mother Teresa do more to bring the name of Jesus to the poor than all the door stopping evangelists any church can muster?
In our personal charity and love of others we carry Christ through our hands to a decaying world. As we do not ,so shall Christ deny us as His followers. It is our choice.
Not everyone has the time and disposition to talk the Good News in organised evangelism like the Mormons do with their religion. But their zeal should be respected.
Our whole lives should be a prayer of adoration to our God, and how often do we fail? Public preaching in the little acts of kindness and example may be far more efficacious than intellectual debate and proselytizing that may be beyond us. AMDG

That was kind of my impression as I’ve been doing my research. The idea that the Mass is the Holy of Holies made me think of it as the heart of the society. Now if you receive the holy communion after confession of sins, you receive the pure Jesus into yourself, a living tabernacle.

**This the church members take with them and go into the world bearing witness of Jesus Christ! **

God’s social order is established on earth. The catholic religion is rule of life for societies. If you do all the things the church says, then you can be holy and bring Jesus to others in all aspects of life!

There can be no other explanation of how it came to be everywhere the world. These towns and villages of Christians must have been so on fire living a sacramental social order that they became a living breathing body of Christ on earth.

 

[po18guy]

I can see that the apostolic religion is so simple and spotless. The world must be made Christian. Its in the bible.

Yet, look at the success our Lord had in John 6, which was some of the most fervent preaching He did: most of His disciples left Him and went back to their former ways of life. What did He do about it? He asked the twelve if they would leave Him, too. How can we expect to be more successful than Christ? Rather unrealistic, I would say. Rather, Christ was faithful even if He was not completely successful. And, that is what we are called to be.

Peter wrote that we should “Always be prepared to make a defense to any one who calls you to account for the hope that is in you, yet do it with gentleness and reverence” 1 Peter 3:15 I fail so often at this!

Consider that the Catholic Church is present in virtually every nation on earth. It is preaching the Gospel and no one is excluded, ever. Through works of charity and mercy, the love of Christ is revealed and good is being done in all corners of the earth. In a sense, it is already a fulfillment of Christ’s command in Matthew 28.

Yet, look at Paul’s letters. They were written in admonition and correction of those who were already Christian. The second largest Church on earth is Catholics who have fallen away from their faith. There lies the greatest opportunity for evangelization.

 

[St_Francis]

I think everybody is right!!!

How so? The word Catholic comes from the Greek word ekatolikos, which means universal. The Catholic Church is the Church of the whole world! And yet we are each different.

Like how many different types of monks and nuns there are: Dominicans, Franciscans, Benedictines, Carmelites, Visitation… And that’s just in the Western Church–there are 22 other particular Churches! Why? Because we are different!

One person lives as a poor person in a poor village–she loves Christ and Mary and prays for the Poor Souls in Purgatory and is kind to everyone she meets. She’s a better Christian than i am with my temper, but I know more ot tye catechism than she does.

OTOH, there are those who give themselves over to study and when a dispute comes up, they are able to clarify our beliefs so that we don’t go off in the wrong direction, reducing the Eucharist to a symbol or denying the necessity of Confession…

Some are called to be missionaries, and they *do *stand on street corners and preach and give out materials to people–consider the Apostles just after they had received the Holy Spirit! And others pray for those in need–consider the cloistered nuns.

So we shouldn’t debate about *how *to evangelize–some are called to TV, some to door-to-door, some to prayer, some to humble example. But we are all part of the same team, just with different positions.

 

[St_Francis]

I’ve been reading the Catholic Missal and found this:

One of the things I’ve heard again and again over the years is that the catholic church is not a gospel preaching evangelical church. One of my observations is that I’ve not seen catholics out there preaching.

Yet I found the above quote in the Catholic Missal.

Question:

**Do Catholics teach that the world must be made christian? **

It says so in the bible to do so and I was wondering if the catholic church really believes this?

I would say that we are obliged to do what we can to evangelize, in the way God calls us , but we are also forbidden to force conversions, so “making” the world Christian, I would say, seems to connote a forcefulness that the Church would not allow.

However, each person is obliged in justice to become a good Catholic, and we should be doing our part to help that happen.

We should also contribute a Christian ethos to society, which may be “making the world Christian” in a different way.

 

[St_Francis]

Amos Town,
Which Catholic Missal are you reading?

 

[po18guy]

Amos Town,
Which Catholic Missal are you reading?

His grandfather’s. 1954.

 

[KP3243]

His grandfather’s. 1954.

Pre Vatican II? That thing must be a relic! Although I have a pre Vatican II prayer book and the examination of conscience questions are fantastic.

 

[KP3243]

Historically, the Catholic Church taught the Faith at home, not in Church. It has always been the parent’s responsibility to teach their children about the Faith, not the Church’s.​

I teach Church school and it was evident from the first class I taught that I was the kid’s primary Catechist which is so wrong, nothing I say or do will ever make the same impression if it is taught by their parents.

 

[po18guy]

Historically, the Catholic Church taught the Faith at home, not in Church. It has always been the parent’s responsibility to teach their children about the Faith, not the Church’s.​

I teach Church school and it was evident from the first class I taught that I was the kid’s primary Catechist which is so wrong, nothing I say or do will ever make the same impression if it is taught by their parents.

As per the Baptismal rite to this day: we are our children’s primary teachers in the faith. Hard to do if you do not know the faith in the first place.

 

[Brendan_64]

We are given the gift of prudence and expected to use it. Jesus, our Divine example, preached and moved on. He did not remain for weeks, hammering the Gospel into them. We can often accomplish more by the witness of our joy-filled lives in Christ. That cannot be hidden from others and it is not passive, it is active witnessing.

I agree with this. If we stand preaching and preaching and those we need to covert most in our secular world, atheists etc. just walk on by, and if then we continue to preach, for whose benefit are we preaching? For others or to fulfill our own sense of what we feel is a ‘good’ thing to do.

Atheism is not a natural state of mankind. Atheists had to be pushed there. They heard and saw things about us that they did not like. We most certainly can cause damage if we beat them over the head with any unwanted message, including the Gospel.

This is also true, and the worst thing you can do to evangelise an atheist is to tell him that something is the Truth because it is written in the Bible. That will do about as much good as handing him a leaflet on how to pray the Rosary.

To evangelise people effectively, I believe, you have to start from where the person is. If a person thinks the Bible is a fairy tale, then you’re wasting your time even mentioning the Bible. If a person thinks that religion is a load of superstitious mumbo-jumbo, then you’re wasting your time talking about Christianity or the Catholic faith. Our secular society (in the UK anyway) is very like this and views the Bible and religion in general in this way.

But what most atheists do value are the virtues of compassion, kindness, honesty and sincerity. So we evangelise, not through preaching the Bible at them or giving them leaflets about the Rosary, but through the way we live our lives and how we live out the virtues of loving our neighbour, because even though atheists may mock our Bible and our religion, most of them they do actually value these virtues.

We need to start the process of evangelisation from where people are, not from where we would like them to be.

Nothing - nothing - that you or I or anyone else on this earth can say will convince a single hardened heart to repent. We have all tried and failed, haven’t we? Rather, it is solely by the action of the Holy Spirit - the Consoler - called by our fervent prayer, that hearts are softened. If words are needed, the Spirit will give them to us as He uses our patient and loving example to soften the hearts of those around us.

 

[po18guy]

But what most atheists do value are the virtues of compassion, kindness, honesty and sincerity. So we evangelise, not through preaching the Bible at them or giving them leaflets about the Rosary, but through the way we live our lives and how we live out the virtues of loving our neighbour, because even though atheists may mock our Bible and our religion, most of them they do actually value these virtues…We need to start the process of evangelisation from where people are, not from where we would like them to be.

And, what an example of this we saw in the UK with the Hitchens brothers. Christopher, the militant atheist, espoused Christian virtue while denying its source. His brother Peter also lapsed into atheism but, from his experience as a journalist in Soviet Russia, he saw the utter societal chaos that resulted when Christian influence was forcibly removed from a society. He had a conversion experieince and is now in the Church of England, knowing that all goodness has its origin in God. Yet, what could Peter do on Christopher’s behalf, other than pray for him? The two argued and debated, even publicly, yet neither budged from their position. Thus, we can only pray that, in his last moments, Christopher repented through the influence of the Holy Spirit.

 

[TimothyH]

That doesn’t seem to fit with the history of the church or the bible. The martyrs were risking their mortal life to preach the gospel to people that were so against God’s law they’d kill anyone that stood in the way of their pagan lifestyle.

I’ve been studying this night and day and your comment just doesn’t fit with history.

If you look at the history you had the era of the apostles. It is undeniable that there were entire communities and towns of christians. The whole town lived according to the word of God and the faith.

The whole town was given to God which stems from the Holy of the Holies being the center of life among the Jews.

Exod 40:34-35 Then the cloud covered the tabernacle of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tabernacle of meeting, because the cloud rested above it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

It would be historically impossible to deny the fact that the apostles and their successors built churches and tabernacles in their communities and towns.

Their system of Jewish worship established Christ as very rhythm of their lives revolved around. This was the the temple Holy of Holies, Jesus Christ among them in the body and blood sacrament.

The system of catholic beliefs as I see it is very clear from the view that the priest is the apostle of Jesus the High priest. The sacrifice at the center of life on earth is Jesus Christ in the New Covenant. The people join to the priests sacrifice in community. The people get purified through Christ in the sacraments. The people must keep their sinfulness in check through confession and the rhythm of religion. Their daily affairs get sanctified by the joining to Jesus sacrifice that they may be worthy to enter the house of God, the Holy of Holies.

They receive the body and blood of Christ and they become living tabernacles.

They then take Jesus from the temple into the world and transform society.

The world can only be sanctified before God by the practice this apostolic way of life.

Where in the Bible does it say this, that the world must be made Christian?

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

That doesn’t seem to fit with the history of the church or the bible. The martyrs were risking their mortal life to preach the gospel to people that were so against God’s law they’d kill anyone that stood in the way of their pagan lifestyle.

I’ve been studying this night and day and your comment just doesn’t fit with history.

If you look at the history you had the era of the apostles. It is undeniable that there were entire communities and towns of christians. The whole town lived according to the word of God and the faith.

The whole town was given to God which stems from the Holy of the Holies being the center of life among the Jews.

Exod 40:34-35 Then the cloud covered the tabernacle of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle. And Moses was not able to enter the tabernacle of meeting, because the cloud rested above it, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

It would be historically impossible to deny the fact that the apostles and their successors built churches and tabernacles in their communities and towns.

Their system of Jewish worship established Christ as very rhythm of their lives revolved around. This was the the temple Holy of Holies, Jesus Christ among them in the body and blood sacrament.

The system of catholic beliefs as I see it is very clear from the view that the priest is the apostle of Jesus the High priest. The sacrifice at the center of life on earth is Jesus Christ in the New Covenant. The people join to the priests sacrifice in community. The people get purified through Christ in the sacraments. The people must keep their sinfulness in check through confession and the rhythm of religion. Their daily affairs get sanctified by the joining to Jesus sacrifice that they may be worthy to enter the house of God, the Holy of Holies.

They receive the body and blood of Christ and they become living tabernacles.

They then take Jesus from the temple into the world and transform society.

The world can only be sanctified before God by the practice this apostolic way of life.

There is no other religious process that can save the world because sinners of a chaotic society of backsliders need a holy and sanctified Social Order to faithfully follow Jesus.

The church therefore must change the world such that every town village and city on earth has at its heart, the Holy of Holies. This heart must beat with the love of God nourished by the food of Jesus body and blood.

The martyrs religion transformed the Roman world.    Towns all over the world have patron saints and religious festivals.

I can see that the apostolic religion is so simple and spotless. The world must be made Christian. Its in the bible.

Where in the Bible does it say this, that the world must be made Christian?

Matthew 10:14, Mark 6:11 and Luke 9:5 say that if people in a town or home don’t receive God’s word that we are to shake the dust off our feet and leave.

And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them. (Luke 9:5)

That is exactly what Paul did .

But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and went to Ico’nium. (Acts 13:51)

-Tim-

 

[Ferde_Rombola]

Hang on a minute. That is not** my** approach.

Brendan said, “Being a Catholic is about having faith in Christ,…it’s about having faith in Our Lord and being obedient to the Church He established on Earth.”

That is generally understood as ‘pray, pay and obey.’

I do keep myself reasonably well informed. I’m a Catholic teacher, am currently studying a course in Catholic theology, and have become a parish catechist. So please don’t make assumptions like that about me.

An accurate reading of what I said will tell you I made no assumptions about you. I read what you posted and replied to it. And I said, ‘pray, pay and obey’ SEEMS to be your approach.

However it is my personal choice to study in that fashion, but not all Catholics are required to have an in-depth knowledge of all the ins and outs of Catholic doctrine.

You are putting words in my mouth to fit your argument. I didn’t say ‘an in-depth knowledge of all the ins and outs, etc’ is required. I suggested a rudimentary knowledge is required. An example is a prior message which noted a Catholic who should have known the doctrine of ‘in persona Christi’ had never heard of it. That’s something every 10 year old Catholic is capable of understanding, but which a pitifully few of them do.

We all journey on our path to God in different ways. It is wrong to imply that a Catholic who does not have a deep knowledge of doctrine is somehow less of a Catholic.

Protestants journey to God in different ways. Catholics make the journey through the Church.

It may be true that a Catholic who doesn’t understand Aquinas is no less a Catholic than one who does, but that’s not the point. Put another way, the Catholic who doesn’t have a rudimentary knowledge of Catholic doctrine, doesn’t even know why he’s a Catholic!

If a Catholic has faith in Our Lord and is obedient to the Church, they are not under any obligation to study the doctrine of the Church in detail. If there is such a requirement, then please point me to the appropriate Canon Law that states that.

What do you think the New Evangelization is about? The recent proliferation of Catholic Bible study programs and videos and Fr. Barron’s “Catholicism” are aimed at Catholics who have no idea about the most elementary points of Catholic doctrine. Being obedient to the Church means nothing if one doesn’t know what to obey. That’s elementary logic.

Your notion here is, people have no obligation either to receive an education or to educate themselves. That’s a good prescription for a cave dweller.

 

[AmosTown]

Where in the Bible does it say this, that the world must be made Christian?

Matthew 10:14, Mark 6:11 and Luke 9:5 say that if people in a town or home don’t receive God’s word that we are to shake the dust off our feet and leave.

And wherever they do not receive you, when you leave that town shake off the dust from your feet as a testimony against them. (Luke 9:5)

That is exactly what Paul did .

But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and went to Ico’nium. (Acts 13:51)

-Tim-

Acts 2:44 and its manifestation in the entire western history of Christianity including the way towns cities governments money and catholic guilds built western civilization.

 

[AmosTown]

And, what an example of this we saw in the UK with the Hitchens brothers. Christopher, the militant atheist, espoused Christian virtue while denying its source. His brother Peter also lapsed into atheism but, from his experience as a journalist in Soviet Russia, he saw the utter societal chaos that resulted when Christian influence was forcibly removed from a society. He had a conversion experieince and is now in the Church of England, knowing that all goodness has its origin in God. Yet, what could Peter do on Christopher’s behalf, other than pray for him? The two argued and debated, even publicly, yet neither budged from their position. Thus, we can only pray that, in his last moments, Christopher repented through the influence of the Holy Spirit.

Ya lost me on this one. Yes, what you say is true, but Paul’s letters and Acts 2:44 paints a very clear picture of the early church. The early church gathered itself as a community or town with its own government. The martyrs are christian persecutions the bible and historical research make this fact undeniable.

 

[AmosTown]

Brendan said, “Being a Catholic is about having faith in Christ,…it’s about having faith in Our Lord and being obedient to the Church He established on Earth.”

That is generally understood as ‘pray, pay and obey.’

An accurate reading of what I said will tell you I made no assumptions about you. I read what you posted and replied to it. And I said, ‘pray, pay and obey’ SEEMS to be your approach.

You are putting words in my mouth to fit your argument. I didn’t say ‘an in-depth knowledge of all the ins and outs, etc’ is required. I suggested a rudimentary knowledge is required. An example is a prior message which noted a Catholic who should have known the doctrine of ‘in persona Christi’ had never heard of it. That’s something every 10 year old Catholic is capable of understanding, but which a pitifully few of them do.

Protestants journey to God in different ways. Catholics make the journey through the Church.

It may be true that a Catholic who doesn’t understand Aquinas is no less a Catholic than one who does, but that’s not the point. Put another way, the Catholic who doesn’t have a rudimentary knowledge of Catholic doctrine, doesn’t even know why he’s a Catholic!

What do you think the New Evangelization is about? The recent proliferation of Catholic Bible study programs and videos and Fr. Barron’s “Catholicism” are aimed at Catholics who have no idea about the most elementary points of Catholic doctrine. Being obedient to the Church means nothing if one doesn’t know what to obey. That’s elementary logic.

Well, I didn’t want to bring up all the inconsistencies I see in catholicism but your points here seem to show me that there is not one version of catholicism. I have been looking into the early christians and see that the coptic christians have over 200 days of fasting!??

Then I found that Roman catholics used to fast and have calendars that have days marked with fish, but the people I talk to don’t fast.

So I ask my main questions again since they remain unanswered. I have grandfather’s catholic missal and there is a page after page theme for how to be a catholic. But every catholic I talk to and even what I find on the Internet doesn’t seem mention this kind of catholic teaching.

My daily work in the world is a continuation of the offering made to God at the altar during Mass - p.47 Catholic Missal

The suffering and fatigue of my daily work have been offered to God in the Mass offertory - p.61 Catholic Missal

At Mass I give my life to God in union with Christ. I give, too my daily tasks, my occupation - p.74 Catholic Missal

Joined to Christ, as a member of His Mystical Body I give meaning to my act of love at Mass, by bringing truth’s light to others - p.87 Catholic Missal

Living the catholic religion according to this missal is about bringing Jesus Christ into the world and making together a social body of Christ. The Holy of Holies, Jesus in the tabernacle is the heart and the towns, the works, the education , the government is the social body of Christ. The historical record of the early and middle age church shows that the world must be made christian. This is the book of Acts, Paul’s letters, the history of christian martyrs, and the history of the expansion of the early and middle age church my dear catholics.

So my question that fits with this question is:

Does the Catholic church teach that everything you do is all about the sacrifice of the Mass like this missal teaches? Is this taught? Is this practiced? Or do catholics practice in some other way?